Snowflake ???

saforwardlook said:
Yeah, we have a really strong military industrial complex and aren't afraid to utilize it - did you know that the world overall sees us as the biggest predator in the world, not Russia or China or ............?

What we don't have is a quality education system that is affordable to anyone but the upper middle class and rich, and we have a health care system that is going bankrupt we are told while the insurance companies are making billions off of it every year, and we don't have a government that serves the interests of the people rather than those who pay for their campaigns. And we have a middle class that in the past was strong and the economic system worked well for everyone besides those at the top, and so yes, we did "save their asses". But today, our middle class is struggling big time since our major companies outsource their jobs elsewhere so their stock holders and company executives can get ever more pay, while deserving workers get the shaft. And despite the new administration with a majority in Congress, nothing is still getting done and there is chaos all over Washington it seems.

These folks from Europe with whom I visited with are not in the least bit arrogant when they are mentioning what they see - they are just pointing out what they are seeing and didn't expect compared to what they knew we were like decades ago. Most of these visitors are older folks that have been around and are very aware of what is going on in the U.S. (in fact, a lot better than many of those who actually live here!). In the countries from which I receive the most visitors, their education systems are some of the finest in the world, they are well educated, have universal health care systems for all, and governments that seems to be more stable than what we have presently and seem to still be serving primarily the majority, not the few, at last for now.

Maybe you need to get out of your bubble in Maine and look at the rest of the world like they do and not just live in the past.
Click to expand...
European socialism is only a plane ride away.
 
saforwardlook said:
You wretched socialist!! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well other than the only other choice I have is to be some low-life, with no job, that has 12 kids with 12 different women, all on welfare, I guess I have to be one of the ones that is forced to pay for them.
 
65 500 said:
European socialism is only a plane ride away.
Click to expand...

saforwardlook said:
Just wondering whether you collect Social Security or rely on Medicare?
Click to expand...

I don't think the argument is whether or not a compulsory degree of socialism exists in the US; it's whether there is "enough" socialism for many. And I swear I don't mean this as an insult, but if so, why the hell not go there?

If there was a nation with more constitutional freedom than the US, I'd sure as hell give it consideration. Some nation has to have the least amount of government involving itself, just like somebody has to ride in the back seat if you've got 4 people riding in a C-body. Why can't we remain that place?

I thought one of the holy grails of earth-worship was NOT expending energy to recreate something that exists.
 
Carmine said:
I don't think the argument is whether or not a compulsory degree of socialism exists in the US; it's whether there is "enough" socialism for many. And I swear I don't mean this as an insult, but if so, why the hell not go there?

If there was a nation with more constitutional freedom than the US, I'd sure as hell give it consideration. Some nation has to have the least amount of government involving itself, just like somebody has to ride in the back seat if you've got 4 people riding in a C-body. Why can't we remain that place?

I thought one of the holy grails of earth-worship was NOT expending energy to recreate something that exists.
Click to expand...

I personally don't like labels applied to some policies that just make sense for everyone, and financially for everyone too when looking at the whole system big picture. I have found that Medicare and my Social Security check are welcome in the retirement portion of my life now, and am glad I have them (and I earned them). I don't see a real problem if we get closer to an education system that works for everyone, and a health insurance system that works for everyone - such systems, I believe, would benefit us all, and the nation as a whole too. And health wise, it wouldn't hurt if people actually took care of themselves rather just eat with total abandon and avoid all exercise, etc. and hope a doctor can "fix" them when it all goes wrong. I don't understand why some 30-40% of our population is obese?

Yeah, we can put our heads in the sand and put labels on everything and complain about everything, but I prefer finding sensible solutions.

I didn't say anything about welfare, but it creeped into this as well. Yeah it is a problem, but what do you do with the people at the bottom who can't make a living on $10 an hour (maybe) and only part time jobs like Walmart has. Walmart knows damn well that we subsidize their wages with a welfare system that takes up where they left off. Their profits are mind boggling. But of course, that is just "capitalism" at work. BS. Why don't you get mad about them using our welfare system to create their incredible profits instead of them paying a living wage in the first place - instead of just complaining about the people that shop there using your money? Walmart does the same thing and is one of the fundamental causes of massive welfare spending. But you never complain about that.

Until we correct the huge imbalance in income inequality in this country, nothing will work well.

But most on this site would rather blame the poor for whatever reason and not look deeper into the real causes of our problems. It seems everyone these days has an easy solution for everything, but usually no issue has one. As Trump is finding out bigly.

I also find it insulting to suggest that if I don't like things just the way they are when they could be improved, I can just "move" if I don't like it. That is retarded, un-American, and nonsense.
 
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saforwardlook said:
I didn't say anything about welfare, but it creeped into this as well. Yeah it is a problem, but what do you do with the people at the bottom who can't make a living on $10 an hour (maybe) and only part time jobs like Walmart has. Walmart knows damn well that we subsidize their wages with a welfare system that takes up where they left off. Their profits are mind boggling. But of course, that is just "capitalism" at work. BS. Why don't you get mad about them using our welfare system to create their incredible profits instead of them paying a living wage in the first place - instead of just complaining about the people that shop there using your money? Walmart does the same thing and is one of the fundamental causes of massive welfare spending. But you never complain about that.

Until we correct the huge imbalance in income inequality in this country, nothing will work well.
Click to expand...

That is put in a way that I hadn't considered previously.
 
I really hate labeling people... I know it's sometimes hard not to, but it enforces stereotypes. Negative behavior is then attributed to that stereotype and it does nothing but drive all of us apart.

We are at a point in this country where this "labeling" has reached a new height. The media carries a lot of this blame. It is dividing us like nothing has ever done in my lifetime. Now there is no intelligent discussion based on facts, just more name calling and less common ground.

No one ever seems to notice the good that comes from each side. That bothers me.... We focus on the negative and whatever sound bite from a politician that was taken out of context and twisted to make a headline.

Are we raising a bunch of whiners and "snowflakes"? I don't know.... Some are catering to the squeaky wheels and that makes the news... But I have two sons that are 30 and 32 and I look at their friends and I can't really say there's a "snowflake" among them. My kids sure aren't...

The generation before me bitched about us too... and their parents did the same... It's nothing new. IMHO, some of it is perceived jealousy that someone is getting a better deal than they did.

Let me rant about education too.... The education system in this country is in shambles. They've gotten us into a situation where getting some worthless degree with a lot of debt is valued over getting an education that you can use to make a good living. Read some of what Mike Rowe has to say on the subject.
 
This Society dividing phenomenon is going on all over seemingly enlighted democratic societies lately. Tendencies to leave Long traditionally developed communities like the Common Market, Splitting from seemingly civilized federal states with no more abilities to compromize.
I have the Impression Military aggressions are going to arise in the not too distant future just as the WW2 participant's Generation is about to fade into oblivion.
 
I personally don't like labels applied to some policies that just make sense for everyone, and financially for everyone too when looking at the whole system big picture. I have found that Medicare and my Social Security check are welcome in the retirement portion of my life now, and am glad I have them (and I earned them).
Click to expand...


No one likes the Socialist label because it connotes failure. That’s why it gets a new name every so often, like progressive or liberal. But will you accept a simple definition that says Socialism means that we all work together to take care of each other? You might not like the labels, but SSI and Medicare are outside the realm of pure capitalism… And that’s OK, few things are completely “pure” and I’m not an ideologue. We are well past 1935 or 1965 and it does not make someone a hypocrite to collect the money taken from them by force (of law) years earlier.



I don't see a real problem if we get closer to an education system that works for everyone, and a health insurance system that works for everyone - such systems, I believe, would benefit us all, and the nation as a whole too. And health wise, it wouldn't hurt if people actually took care of themselves rather just eat with total abandon and avoid all exercise, etc. and hope a doctor can "fix" them when it all goes wrong. I don't understand why some 30-40% of our population is obese?
Click to expand...


The education system works well for those who have an interest in being educated. What do you consider an “education system that works for everyone”? More dollars thrown at it? More free stuff? I won’t attempt to get into the government’s role in leading a healthy lifestyle beyond saying that if living a longer life, free of health problems isn’t motivation enough, I don’t know what Uncle Sam can do short of the forced-feeding of Broccoli in nutrition re-education camps.


I didn't say anything about welfare, but it creeped into this as well. Yeah it is a problem, but what do you do with the people at the bottom who can't make a living on $10 an hour (maybe) and only part time jobs like Walmart has. Walmart knows damn well that we subsidize their wages with a welfare system that takes up where they left off. Their profits are mind boggling. But of course, that is just "capitalism" at work. BS. Why don't you get mad about them using our welfare system to create their incredible profits instead of them paying a living wage in the first place - instead of just complaining about the people that shop there using your money? Walmart does the same thing and is one of the fundamental causes of massive welfare spending. But you never complain about that.
Click to expand...


You know what people used to do when they worked for a company that offered low pay and few benefits? They got better jobs, or they unionized. The fact that they can receive welfare while working says more about the modern low bar for welfare qualification than what Wal-Mart pays their workers. (BTW I still use the hyphen because Walmart doesn’t want you to do so.) Wal-Mart pays what Wal-Mart needs to pay to attract workers. Entry level Wal-Mart (or fast food, etc.) jobs should never be our standard for jobs that can support a family, purchase a home, a new car, etc. It never was in the past in in those “glory days” of the 1950s. They are intended as “first jobs” for HS kids, part-time income, or keeping older people out of trouble.

Until we correct the huge imbalance in income inequality in this country, nothing will work well.
Click to expand...


Which language is that quote translated from? Russian? Chinese? Venezuelan? What’s odd to me is the emphasis on material wealth placed by people who resent the rich. I wouldn’t argue with you that CEOs earn to much or that Wal-Marts profits are obscene. But apparently they either aren’t obscene-enough to truly piss-off the masses because they’re still buying as much as they can. I’ve done my shopping at Meijers and Krogers for decades now and haven’t been inside a Wal-Mart since they had hyphens. So in other words, I do my part. If no one else cares enough, they aren’t hurting enough.



But most on this site would rather blame the poor for whatever reason and not look deeper into the real causes of our problems. It seems everyone these days has an easy solution for everything, but usually no issue has one. As Trump is finding out bigly.
Click to expand...


Do the “poohr” own any of their own fate? Do the decisions people make have any impact on their own lives? Most people I know have a new, flatscreen television connected to cable. They own newer cars than I do. They spend more on booze, tattoos, holiday decorations, vacations, clothing, football tickets, concert tickets, etc. Basically if it was something that depreciated the moment you took it home, they spent more. I do without a lot of this glitter to spend money on things that appreciate in value, like real estate. I bought my washer/dryer, bedroom set, and pretty much all of my cars from Craigslist. I only bought a new Challenger because they offered 0%, and then I sold it before it depreciated too much. I shop at estate sales. I get Docker’s work pants at a thrift store (sometimes with the original tags) for $4-5 a pair. I built a big addition on my house and gave up every weekend to pull wires, hang ducts, cut tile, run plumbing. I only farmed out the shell because that’s too much for one man (and the drywall because I hate hanging drywall). I own three houses and a commercial building and because I have the nerve to collect rent, people say I’m “rich”. I suppose it never occurs to them the fun I miss installing a water heater in a basement on a nice day, or fixing the furnace in a flat roof in a foot of snow. Or that I’ve been at work for 3 hours when they’re sitting up in bed each morning.


For this amount of privilege, I’m supposed to buy them college… when I paid for my own by working in a stamping plant. Buy them healthcare when I never even consideredquitting my job regardless of idiot boss or 100+ degree temps in a shop because my job had healthcare benefits. When I’m pecking away on a BlackBerry, I should buy them a new iPhone.


But at the end of the day, I control my own fate. Don’t tell me “it was easier in my grandparents day”. He lived through a depression and tour in Africa against Rommel. But before that he worked in a war plant and was investigated as a spy because he was Italian. He didn’t have a color TV until the late 60s, and had a dial phone until he died, but he left $300k behind… And it hasn’t been touched by the family. My father was drafted, but luckily missed Vietnam. He had to work in a meat packing plant while he was laid off. Nobody is bitter. Nobody is unhappy. Nobody sits around talking about “income inequality” but I bet a lot of people would like to help themselves to their wealth. And then they’ll encounter another piece of the constitution.



I also find it insulting to suggest that if I don't like things just the way they are when they could be improved, I can just "move" if I don't like it. That is retarded, offensive, and nonsense.
Click to expand...


I don’t like to see a legitimate question labeled as “retarded, offensive nonsense”. There are places that offer a free-utopia; healthcare, daycare, college, assisted living and probably burial as well. Cradle-to-grave. Places like Spain have fantastic weather, beautiful scenery and interesting history. If that’s too much sun, my experience in Germany says it looks like Tennessee without a speed limit. Most places in Europe won’t tax you to death for an American car provided it’s 30+ years old. There is Australia with its own batch of cool old cars, sunshine, steakhouses, shrimp-on-barbie and all the guns were picked up years ago. Certainly Canada isn’t a culture shock for an American if you think Tim Horton’s makes good doughnuts and you can learn the language. Asia is cramped, but you’ll score all the hot chicks because you’re taller. Why spend precious years of your life banging your head against people who refuse to vote for income equality, free stuff and further refuse to disarm? If I could find a place where the government wasn’t up my rear end trying to “improve” my life, I’d at least consider it and would consider the suggestion as helpful. Deprive America of your intellectual capital and improve the life of people who are more aligned with your thinking; isn’t that the ultimate “revenge” if you will?
 
Carmine said:
No one likes the Socialist label because it connotes failure. That’s why it gets a new name every so often, like progressive or liberal. But will you accept a simple definition that says Socialism means that we all work together to take care of each other? You might not like the labels, but SSI and Medicare are outside the realm of pure capitalism… And that’s OK, few things are completely “pure” and I’m not an ideologue. We are well past 1935 or 1965 and it does not make someone a hypocrite to collect the money taken from them by force (of law) years earlier.






The education system works well for those who have an interest in being educated. What do you consider an “education system that works for everyone”? More dollars thrown at it? More free stuff? I won’t attempt to get into the government’s role in leading a healthy lifestyle beyond saying that if living a longer life, free of health problems isn’t motivation enough, I don’t know what Uncle Sam can do short of the forced-feeding of Broccoli in nutrition re-education camps.





You know what people used to do when they worked for a company that offered low pay and few benefits? They got better jobs, or they unionized. The fact that they can receive welfare while working says more about the modern low bar for welfare qualification than what Wal-Mart pays their workers. (BTW I still use the hyphen because Walmart doesn’t want you to do so.) Wal-Mart pays what Wal-Mart needs to pay to attract workers. Entry level Wal-Mart (or fast food, etc.) jobs should never be our standard for jobs that can support a family, purchase a home, a new car, etc. It never was in the past in in those “glory days” of the 1950s. They are intended as “first jobs” for HS kids, part-time income, or keeping older people out of trouble.




Which language is that quote translated from? Russian? Chinese? Venezuelan? What’s odd to me is the emphasis on material wealth placed by people who resent the rich. I wouldn’t argue with you that CEOs earn to much or that Wal-Marts profits are obscene. But apparently they either aren’t obscene-enough to truly piss-off the masses because they’re still buying as much as they can. I’ve done my shopping at Meijers and Krogers for decades now and haven’t been inside a Wal-Mart since they had hyphens. So in other words, I do my part. If no one else cares enough, they aren’t hurting enough.






Do the “poohr” own any of their own fate? Do the decisions people make have any impact on their own lives? Most people I know have a new, flatscreen television connected to cable. They own newer cars than I do. They spend more on booze, tattoos, holiday decorations, vacations, clothing, football tickets, concert tickets, etc. Basically if it was something that depreciated the moment you took it home, they spent more. I do without a lot of this glitter to spend money on things that appreciate in value, like real estate. I bought my washer/dryer, bedroom set, and pretty much all of my cars from Craigslist. I only bought a new Challenger because they offered 0%, and then I sold it before it depreciated too much. I shop at estate sales. I get Docker’s work pants at a thrift store (sometimes with the original tags) for $4-5 a pair. I built a big addition on my house and gave up every weekend to pull wires, hang ducts, cut tile, run plumbing. I only farmed out the shell because that’s too much for one man (and the drywall because I hate hanging drywall). I own three houses and a commercial building and because I have the nerve to collect rent, people say I’m “rich”. I suppose it never occurs to them the fun I miss installing a water heater in a basement on a nice day, or fixing the furnace in a flat roof in a foot of snow. Or that I’ve been at work for 3 hours when they’re sitting up in bed each morning.


For this amount of privilege, I’m supposed to buy them college… when I paid for my own by working in a stamping plant. Buy them healthcare when I never even consideredquitting my job regardless of idiot boss or 100+ degree temps in a shop because my job had healthcare benefits. When I’m pecking away on a BlackBerry, I should buy them a new iPhone.


But at the end of the day, I control my own fate. Don’t tell me “it was easier in my grandparents day”. He lived through a depression and tour in Africa against Rommel. But before that he worked in a war plant and was investigated as a spy because he was Italian. He didn’t have a color TV until the late 60s, and had a dial phone until he died, but he left $300k behind… And it hasn’t been touched by the family. My father was drafted, but luckily missed Vietnam. He had to work in a meat packing plant while he was laid off. Nobody is bitter. Nobody is unhappy. Nobody sits around talking about “income inequality” but I bet a lot of people would like to help themselves to their wealth. And then they’ll encounter another piece of the constitution.






I don’t like to see a legitimate question labeled as “retarded, offensive nonsense”. There are places that offer a free-utopia; healthcare, daycare, college, assisted living and probably burial as well. Cradle-to-grave. Places like Spain have fantastic weather, beautiful scenery and interesting history. If that’s too much sun, my experience in Germany says it looks like Tennessee without a speed limit. Most places in Europe won’t tax you to death for an American car provided it’s 30+ years old. There is Australia with its own batch of cool old cars, sunshine, steakhouses, shrimp-on-barbie and all the guns were picked up years ago. Certainly Canada isn’t a culture shock for an American if you think Tim Horton’s makes good doughnuts and you can learn the language. Asia is cramped, but you’ll score all the hot chicks because you’re taller. Why spend precious years of your life banging your head against people who refuse to vote for income equality, free stuff and further refuse to disarm? If I could find a place where the government wasn’t up my rear end trying to “improve” my life, I’d at least consider it and would consider the suggestion as helpful. Deprive America of your intellectual capital and improve the life of people who are more aligned with your thinking; isn’t that the ultimate “revenge” if you will?
Click to expand...
AMEN!!! :thumbsup::usflag:
 
Carmine said:
No one likes the Socialist label because it connotes failure. That’s why it gets a new name every so often, like progressive or liberal. But will you accept a simple definition that says Socialism means that we all work together to take care of each other? You might not like the labels, but SSI and Medicare are outside the realm of pure capitalism… And that’s OK, few things are completely “pure” and I’m not an ideologue. We are well past 1935 or 1965 and it does not make someone a hypocrite to collect the money taken from them by force (of law) years earlier.

The education system works well for those who have an interest in being educated. What do you consider an “education system that works for everyone”? More dollars thrown at it? More free stuff? I won’t attempt to get into the government’s role in leading a healthy lifestyle beyond saying that if living a longer life, free of health problems isn’t motivation enough, I don’t know what Uncle Sam can do short of the forced-feeding of Broccoli in nutrition re-education camps.

You know what people used to do when they worked for a company that offered low pay and few benefits? They got better jobs, or they unionized. The fact that they can receive welfare while working says more about the modern low bar for welfare qualification than what Wal-Mart pays their workers. (BTW I still use the hyphen because Walmart doesn’t want you to do so.) Wal-Mart pays what Wal-Mart needs to pay to attract workers. Entry level Wal-Mart (or fast food, etc.) jobs should never be our standard for jobs that can support a family, purchase a home, a new car, etc. It never was in the past in in those “glory days” of the 1950s. They are intended as “first jobs” for HS kids, part-time income, or keeping older people out of trouble.

Which language is that quote translated from? Russian? Chinese? Venezuelan? What’s odd to me is the emphasis on material wealth placed by people who resent the rich. I wouldn’t argue with you that CEOs earn to much or that Wal-Marts profits are obscene. But apparently they either aren’t obscene-enough to truly piss-off the masses because they’re still buying as much as they can. I’ve done my shopping at Meijers and Krogers for decades now and haven’t been inside a Wal-Mart since they had hyphens. So in other words, I do my part. If no one else cares enough, they aren’t hurting enough.

Do the “poohr” own any of their own fate? Do the decisions people make have any impact on their own lives? Most people I know have a new, flatscreen television connected to cable. They own newer cars than I do. They spend more on booze, tattoos, holiday decorations, vacations, clothing, football tickets, concert tickets, etc. Basically if it was something that depreciated the moment you took it home, they spent more. I do without a lot of this glitter to spend money on things that appreciate in value, like real estate. I bought my washer/dryer, bedroom set, and pretty much all of my cars from Craigslist. I only bought a new Challenger because they offered 0%, and then I sold it before it depreciated too much. I shop at estate sales. I get Docker’s work pants at a thrift store (sometimes with the original tags) for $4-5 a pair. I built a big addition on my house and gave up every weekend to pull wires, hang ducts, cut tile, run plumbing. I only farmed out the shell because that’s too much for one man (and the drywall because I hate hanging drywall). I own three houses and a commercial building and because I have the nerve to collect rent, people say I’m “rich”. I suppose it never occurs to them the fun I miss installing a water heater in a basement on a nice day, or fixing the furnace in a flat roof in a foot of snow. Or that I’ve been at work for 3 hours when they’re sitting up in bed each morning.

For this amount of privilege, I’m supposed to buy them college… when I paid for my own by working in a stamping plant. Buy them healthcare when I never even consideredquitting my job regardless of idiot boss or 100+ degree temps in a shop because my job had healthcare benefits. When I’m pecking away on a BlackBerry, I should buy them a new iPhone.

But at the end of the day, I control my own fate. Don’t tell me “it was easier in my grandparents day”. He lived through a depression and tour in Africa against Rommel. But before that he worked in a war plant and was investigated as a spy because he was Italian. He didn’t have a color TV until the late 60s, and had a dial phone until he died, but he left $300k behind… And it hasn’t been touched by the family. My father was drafted, but luckily missed Vietnam. He had to work in a meat packing plant while he was laid off. Nobody is bitter. Nobody is unhappy. Nobody sits around talking about “income inequality” but I bet a lot of people would like to help themselves to their wealth. And then they’ll encounter another piece of the constitution.

I don’t like to see a legitimate question labeled as “retarded, offensive nonsense”. There are places that offer a free-utopia; healthcare, daycare, college, assisted living and probably burial as well. Cradle-to-grave. Places like Spain have fantastic weather, beautiful scenery and interesting history. If that’s too much sun, my experience in Germany says it looks like Tennessee without a speed limit. Most places in Europe won’t tax you to death for an American car provided it’s 30+ years old. There is Australia with its own batch of cool old cars, sunshine, steakhouses, shrimp-on-barbie and all the guns were picked up years ago. Certainly Canada isn’t a culture shock for an American if you think Tim Horton’s makes good doughnuts and you can learn the language. Asia is cramped, but you’ll score all the hot chicks because you’re taller. Why spend precious years of your life banging your head against people who refuse to vote for income equality, free stuff and further refuse to disarm? If I could find a place where the government wasn’t up my rear end trying to “improve” my life, I’d at least consider it and would consider the suggestion as helpful. Deprive America of your intellectual capital and improve the life of people who are more aligned with your thinking; isn’t that the ultimate “revenge” if you will?
Click to expand...

Thank you yet once again for putting words in my mouth that were never there. And spinning things in a way that make no sense. But I really do thank you for helping me understand how so many people voted for Trump. You seem to think just like he does and have the same depth of understanding of the big picture. Lets see where he will get us and how much of MAGA he will achieve.
 
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saforwardlook said:
Thank you yet once again for putting words in my mouth that were never there. And spinning things in a way that make no sense. But I really do thank you for helping me understand how so many people voted for Trump. You seem to think just like he does and have the same depth of understanding of the big picture. Lets see where he will get us and how much he will achieve MAGA.
Click to expand...
Trump kept Hillary out of the White House, anything else he does is just gravy.
 
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