Steering wheel wants to turn right while idling, steering gear adustment or front-end alignment?

[BAD69FURY]

I putzed with the valve body today. Tapping it backwards (ie towards the back of the car) makes the problem worse, it increases the tendency to turn to the right. I tapped it forward, but it was already close to the maximum it could be in that direction. I might have moved it a smidge more. With both front wheels off the ground, starting the engine doesn't give any sort of steering wheel kick. but it did still seem to be very touchy as far as staying still and not wanting to auto-rotate the tires to the right. With the wheels on the ground it was better. Moving the car slowly forward and reverse, the wheel feels squirrely, like it wants to turn by itself, either left or right. I don't like it. Maybe the belt could be tighter. I'll look at that tommorrow.

Edit: I did not tap or move it while the engine is running. It leaks a little when the bolts are loosened and I don't want oil all over the place when the pump is running. I loosened it, tapped it to a new position, then tightened it, then started the engine to see the effect of the new position. I trust that I don't actually need to move it *while* the engine is running...

I had this problem in my Newport after replacing the steering gear. A slight adjustment of the steering gear valve body corrected the problem. Here’s a great video showing correctly how to fix it.

watch video from 7:28 onward

 

[ynst]

If the steering wheel twitches one way or the other when you start the engine, the valve body needs adjustment. The FSM, in the steering box rebuild section, tells you which way to tap the valve body to correct the problem.

It's been a while since I had to adjust one of these valves (probably ten years or more) but I distinctly remember the FSM going into great detail about the torque settings for the valve body bolts. One setting will allow you to slide the valve body but not induce any leakage while testing the adjustment and the other is the final torque to affix it permanently.

I never had a problem with one leaking while adjusting it because I always looked up the torque settings beforehand and followed the procedure.

EDIT: I think Chilton and Motor manuals also cover the adjustment procedure.

 

[jmustian]

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now.

Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering.

I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem.

I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body.

Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon.

Comments?

You need to center the valve on the steering gear. The manual describes how you loosen bolts then re tighten to a lighter torque. Then with the front end off of the ground, you tap lightly on the centering valve. Adjust by tapping it up or down until the steering wheel does not go it's own way. Turn the wheel both ways to make sure one way does not move by itself. It's well explain in the fsm under steering gear.

 

[MoPar~Man]

I think I've solved this problem. I removed the gear box and took it apart, following the same steps I took when I changed the worm-shaft seal. I thought I might have mixed up the placement of a few parts:

This is the right-turn reaction ring and couple of placement / spacer rings. This is how I had it put together (which was wrong):

This is how it's supposed to look:

I used a short piece of pipe (which fit real good on the worm shaft) and some shim washers to align the unit to what I think is the correct angle:

With the wheels off the ground and engine running, and some very small adjustments to the valve body, I can get it so that the self-steering in either direction has stopped. I can't quite seem to make it not free-wheel a little bit in one direction or another if I give the wheel a bit of a spin and let go.

I wonder why they didn't load the valve-body piston with opposing springs to give it some neutral return force. I think that would have gone a long way to reducing the wheel rotational inertia.

 

[3175375]

I think I've solved this problem. I removed the gear box and took it apart, following the same steps I took when I changed the worm-shaft seal. I thought I might have mixed up the placement of a few parts:

View attachment 690552

This is the right-turn reaction ring and couple of placement / spacer rings. This is how I had it put together (which was wrong):

View attachment 690553

This is how it's supposed to look:

View attachment 690554

I used a short piece of pipe (which fit real good on the worm shaft) and some shim washers to align the unit to what I think is the correct angle:

View attachment 690555

With the wheels off the ground and engine running, and some very small adjustments to the valve body, I can get it so that the self-steering in either direction has stopped. I can't quite seem to make it not free-wheel a little bit in one direction or another if I give the wheel a bit of a spin and let go.

I wonder why they didn't load the valve-body piston with opposing springs to give it some neutral return force. I think that would have gone a long way to reducing the wheel rotational inertia.

Good work on correcting the assembly error.

Maybe you still have something in incorrectly?

I have never disassembled a steering box, but did screw up a valve body reassembly on Elwood, my 68 Plymouth Fury II 4 door sedan with a 904. I re-read the service manual and figured it out.

I would encourage you to review, carefully consider reassembly and ask questions on this forum. Do not hesitate to include pictures as you have done.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Good work on correcting the assembly error.
Maybe you still have something in incorrectly?
I have never disassembled a steering box, but did screw up a valve body reassembly on Elwood, my 68 Plymouth Fury II 4 door sedan with a 904. I re-read the service manual and figured it out.
I would encourage you to review, carefully consider reassembly and ask questions on this forum. Do not hesitate to include pictures as you have done.

The valve body is pretty simple. I didn't touch it the first time, but this time I did remove it:

I took note of which way that slot in the pin was oriented. Those are the original seals, they looked fine, a bit flattened. There's almost no parts in the valve body itself except for some seals and the piston. I took the end-piece off so I could slide the piston out and look at it, I didn't take the end piece itself apart but I did change the seals. The piston slides very easily in the bore but I could detect no play. I cleaned these valve body surfaces and changed the seals. I had no leaks from here before I did all that, I'm hoping it stays that way with the new seals.

Here's the pin and the part they call the "spacer":

I took those out so I could see the left-turn reaction ring under the spacer and see how those parts went together. That's how I figured I put the right-turn parts in incorrectly.

I have several of the steering-gear rebuild kits (Sunsong I think) that rockauto sells, all in all a large variety of parts. Beyond changing the seals that prevent external fluid leaks, I'm wonding how replacing some of the internal seals affects (or corrects) steering gear operation and steering feel. Changing those seals requires more disassembly / removal of the entire power piston assembly which I did not do.

 

[Just Carbs]

Congratulations on finding the assembly mistake.
The freewheeling "in both directions" when there is no resistance with the wheels off the ground is expected. That's what the reaction spring setup is all about. To stabilize the steering when the car encounters bumps, wind and crown so the car don't jump all over the place. Bouncing back and forth from valve port to valve port.
Return to center is all in the alignment.
Change the reaction springs to change the feel. Meaning a little effort needed to turn the wheel all the way to a lot of effort needed.

 

[marty koirtyohann]

there is a adjustment on

1967 Monaco. Front stub replaced, steering gear moved to new stub. No alignment done (yet). Tie rod adjusters adjusted by eye. Upper control arm bolts tightened in center positions. All new bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Torsion bar height adjustments made. Front end has suitable height, maybe not perfect. Wheels look straight. Only requirements I have is that I can maneuver the car in the driveway for now.

Upon engine start, with wheels pointing forward and steering wheel in correct center position, the steering wheel will start turning by itself to the right and basically point the tires all the way hard right. It takes almost no effort to put a hand on the wheel and prevent this from happening, and if I steady the wheel while the engine settles down I can let it go and it will stay still but it's like on a hair trigger to go hard right. This is power steering.

I looked at the service manual, in the power steering section, looking at the list of problems - solutions. They do not describe this problem.

I vaguely recall that if you take the valve body off the steering gear that you will get this problem unless you putz with it during re-assembly? In this case, I did not remove the valve body.

Could this be just a case of wrong camber / castor? I totally don't know where I am in this regard, I aim to get that set correctly at some point soon.

Comments?

there is a adjustment on the gear bo for the powr steering box if its not rght the steering wheel wll move by it's self . u loosen the spool adjustment& with a small ball pee n hammer u tap the spool adjustment 1 way or the other till e steering wheel dose not move / it touchy / i kow he wh allmot broke my arm as i tried starting the nca while reaching through the wheel from the outside ita a 2 man job . i had a 40yr mopar tech help me with my 73 polara & my 72 new yorher its a touchy operation

 

[jmustian]

Congratulations on finding the assembly mistake.
The freewheeling "in both directions" when there is no resistance with the wheels off the ground is expected. That's what the reaction spring setup is all about. To stabilize the steering when the car encounters bumps, wind and crown so the car don't jump all over the place. Bouncing back and forth from valve port to valve port.
Return to center is all in the alignment.
Change the reaction springs to change the feel. Meaning a little effort needed to turn the wheel all the way to a lot of effort needed.

Love all this input. Gonna rebuild mine this winter and never done one.

 

[Just Carbs]

Love all this input. Gonna rebuild mine this winter and never done one.

MoPar~Man has it figured out.​

The devil is defiantly in the details. Get the factory service manual. There are some very important details. Like adjusting the line weight tension with a string and weight scale and staking that nut in the picture of post #24.
If the parts aren't worn and the FSM is followed meticulously the results can be shockingly good.

 

[3175375]

Congratulations on finding the assembly mistake.
The freewheeling "in both directions" when there is no resistance with the wheels off the ground is expected. That's what the reaction spring setup is all about. To stabilize the steering when the car encounters bumps, wind and crown so the car don't jump all over the place. Bouncing back and forth from valve port to valve port.
Return to center is all in the alignment.
Change the reaction springs to change the feel. Meaning a little effort needed to turn the wheel all the way to a lot of effort needed.

What do you mean by “Change the reaction springs to change the feel. Meaning a little effort needed to turn the wheel all the way to a lot of effort needed.”

Can you elaborate?

 

[Just Carbs]

The reaction spring assembly controls the effort needed to activate the power steering.
One set of springs will make it turn with very little effort at the steering wheel. Another set will make it require more effort.
If you have a set for a firm feeling, you will have to apply more torque to the steering wheel to get the car to turn. The added resistance in your hands on the wheel tells you that you are attempting to turn the car, and the car is "about" to turn. Then you even apply more torque to the steering wheel, and it eventually turns the car.

 

[3175375]

The reaction spring assembly controls the effort needed to activate the power steering.
One set of springs will make it turn with very little effort at the steering wheel. Another set will make it require more effort.
If you have a set for a firm feeling, you will have to apply more torque to the steering wheel to get the car to turn. The added resistance in your hands on the wheel tells you that you are attempting to turn the car, and the car is "about" to turn. Then you even apply more torque to the steering wheel, and it eventually turns the car.

the steering wheel in both of my C bodies is way too loosey goosey for me. It is extremely easy to steer. I’m used to firmer steering.

Are you saying that I can replace the springs to achieve a firmer (more effort than using my pinky) steering feel?

If this is true, where do I get or how do I adjust the springs?

 

[Just Carbs]

the steering wheel in both of my C bodies is way too loosey goosey for me. It is extremely easy to steer. I’m used to firmer steering.

Are you saying that I can replace the springs to achieve a firmer (more effort than using my pinky) steering feel?

If this is true, where do I get or how do I adjust the springs?

I don't know who sells the spring set you seek.
I get my springs out of factory steering boxs.
Is it possible that you have loose steering parts, or a worn box, or a miss assembled box or a box with internal miss adjustments?
The worm and sector and recirculating balls, and shaft bearings should have no play in them when adjusted right. There are generally three adjustments for that, one inside and two outside.
Then the reaction power assist spring setup is a whole different thing.