The People Have Spoken...

[1970cat]

as far as trump banning muslims, it is said to be only temporary. 5 out of the 6 banned areas are only for 90 days at this time. also not an unreasonable amount of time. there are exemptions to those with visas and family here.
he has talked to and met most of the worlds influential leaders already. (1 week). he seems to have good diplomacy skills. many of these leaders agree with him on most subjects.
he has given his (secretary of state ?) 90 days to come up with a plan to eliminate isis. same 90 days as the muslim ban.
my take on what he is doing is this, he is tying up many of the loose ends we have around the world. we focus internally and work our way out to the rest of the world. protect ourselves first.
for a "beginner" he is doing great. the only thing he has done is take people out of their comfort zones. personally i am more concerned about pence attending an anti-abortion rally. very little was said about it in the media though.
these protesters are morons. he is already president! barring impeachment he will be for the next 4 years. what are they thinking? just an excuse to be a-holes i guess.
i could be wrong about everything but so far i am satisfied with our president.

 

[saforwardlook]

congratulations to your new chief economic advisor Gary D.Cohn

Despite Trump's assertions that he was going to stand up for working people it turns out that Wall Street and Goldman Sachs are still running the show - and the Trump administration. Among many other billionaires in the Trump administration is Gary D. Cohn, the departing president of Goldman Sachs and Trump's new director of the National Economic Council. Upon leaving Goldman Sachs, Cohn just received an exit package of $285 million. Yes, $285 million. And that's how the rigged economy and oligarchy works. The middle class of this country bailed out Goldman Sachs to the tune of over $800 billion. Goldman Sachs paid a $5 billion fine to the U.S. Treasury for illegal activity, as did virtually every other major bank. Meanwhile, no top Wall Street executive is prosecuted for criminal activity. Instead, the president of Goldman Sachs becomes the leading financial adviser to the President. And, to add insult to injury, Cohn and the Trump administration will soon end up supporting huge tax breaks for the rich while cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Can we stop them? Yes. But only through a powerful and focused grassroots movement which tells Congress to represent us all, not just the 1 percent.

You know Carsten, you and I have talked at length about the incredible effects of wealth going to the top in America at the 99%s' expense. But when I did a thread on the historical % contribution of the wealthy in taxes over time since the Great Depression, I got responses to the effect that it was too difficult to understand for most on this site and little else that made any sense in terms of return comments. I have wondered since then how much of the big picture many of the guys on this site have of the world and its economic system, how trade wars can really hurt everyone, how isolating us from the rest of the world can increase China and Russia's influence in the world at our expense, and a lot more. So many people in this country are not really watching what is going on in politics or how the monied interests behind a lot of news stations that they get their information from are influencing them with angry rhetoric and half truths and outright lies that they never fact check on their own. So I have concluded it is a waste of time to get into this stuff at all on this site. For many apparently, all their news stations need to do is cry "class warfare" and they are sure they know all about the subject of money virtually all going to the top from that point on and its effects on their lives (the response I usually get from folks who cry "class warfare" when trying to discuss the topic in depth is another sound byte they have heard "have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?" which tells me they didn't really understand the whole subject at all nor did they want to. Best to just talk cars and let the stuff on politics do what it will. The world is way more complex than a couple sound bytes to explain and few want to go any deeper than the sound bytes they receive it appears.

 

[tbm3fan]

You know Carsten, you and I have talked at length about the incredible effects of wealth going to the top in America at the 99%s' expense. But when I did a thread on the historical % contribution of the wealthy in taxes over time since the Great Depression, I got responses to the effect that it was too difficult to understand for most on this site and little else that made any sense in terms of return comments. I have wondered since then how much of the big picture many of the guys on this site have of the world and its economic system, how trade wars can really hurt everyone, how isolating us from the rest of the world can increase China and Russia's influence in the world at our expense, and a lot more. So many people in this country are not really watching what is going on in politics or how the monied interests behind a lot of news stations that they get their information from are influencing them with angry rhetoric and half truths and outright lies that they never fact check on their own. So I have concluded it is a waste of time to get into this stuff at all on this site. All their news stations need to do is cry "class warfare" and they are sure they know all about the subject of money virtually all going to the top from that point on and its effects on their lives. Best to just talk cars and let the stuff on politics do what it will. The world is way more complex than a couple sound bytes to explain and few want to go any deeper than the sound bytes they receive it appears.

You need to learn to talk in very short sound bites like "sad", "the best", "working well". However, I know you can't talk that way anymore than I can and I thank you for it.

 

[65 500]

I'll give you credit for a response, most people just do drive-bys. I have a little time to kill waiting to for dinner, so I'll engage your reply. And keep in mind, I'm not on his payroll or anything... I'm debating for debate's sake. He could well turn out to be a disaster, but I know that we're (the nation) discussing borders, immigration, trade, economy/jobs vs. the alternative which would have been endless drivel about race, diversity, entitlements, carbon footprints, gun laws, and the expansion of government. So given what might have been, I am grateful.



I don't quite understand the last sentence, but if you're saying you're OK without insurance, than God (or science) bless you. Plenty of people don't prioritize heath insurance and for many years getting started in my life, neither did I. But you no longer have that choice. If you didn't make the required contribution to the insurance industry this year you owe Uncle Sam a $95 to several-thousand-dollar penalty (assuming you cleared at least $16k) Don't pay it and they'll lien your assets. Resist confiscation and you'll be arrested. Resist arrest and you'll be shot. Does being forced to buy something you don't need or want from a private business seem fair to you? Don't make a car-insurance comparison... That gives you the right to use public roads. Obamacare is the first thing the government has required you to purchase just for existing, and that's an important distinction.




Again, science-bless you. But a lot of good people can't afford to live in neighborhoods where crime isn't an issue. (BTW, I love Chief Craig. I hope he runs for Mayor then Governor. He also said...) And then there's that whole Constitution thing that says we may keep and bare arms, also held up as an individual right by the Supreme Court. Most of the world (except Switzerland) prohibits or restricts gun ownership, so you've got plenty of choice in this world. Diverse choices like China, N. Korea, Iran, Venezuela and more!




Ok, well I don't recall any Executive Orders requiring you to be in church on Sunday. What's the beef? No more paying for foreign abortions? Damn, just when I was hoping we could find more ways to spend money in other countries he takes baby killin' off the list. I'm sure someone makes is good case for abortions in Kenya, but that's waaaayyyy down my list of things to get upset about.



Of course not! The gunshot or the point of the knife are going to wake you up before you bleed out, silly! But seriously, aren't you projecting? I don't even get the "black people" thing... Because he doesn't ***-kiss the mothers of attempted cop-killers? 30-years a very public figure in NYC, a dozen Oprah shows, Hollywood elite (OK, B-list) kissing his *** on the Apprentice and suddenly he's Strom Thurmond? Jesse Jackson doesn't seem to think he's a bad guy.





I'm not a fan of his Twitter wars either, but I think he generally conducts them with people who trash him first.




You've got to know that nobody who does that much construction doesn't eventually have a dispute with a contractor. I went 42 years of my life without ever cancelling a check, but when I remodeled my kitchen the granite shop did such half-assed work that I stopped payment. Then I took photos of all the flaws and said I'd be happy to see him in small-claims and let the judge decide the value of his work. Never heard from him again. I'm sure he bad-mouths me.



Maybe. He's already said he pays very little because of the way our tax laws are written. To me it's a distraction. I'm guessing if it were illegal, the IRS would have Wesley Sniped him years ago.



Well at least the media never blatantly lies. If you haven't figured it out, I'm pretty sure he does it to keep them chasing their tails. Now ordinarily, that wouldn't be too nice. But when you have a media-political complex that gives debate questions in advance, gets post-interview approval of stories, I can see the logic.



See above. Without the meaningless debate over crowd size, this nonsense would be the headline.

He plays the media like a fiddle. Remember, they are the idiots who first talked about crowd size.




Some of these are redundant, so I'm grouping them together. But the nice thing is, his opposition was so very empathetic...







I'm with you there!

There you go confusing the issue with the facts again.

 

[Carmine]

You know Carsten, you and I have talked at length about the incredible effects of wealth going to the top in America at the 99%s' expense. But when I did a thread on the historical % contribution of the wealthy in taxes over time since the Great Depression, I got responses to the effect that it was too difficult to understand for most on this site and little else that made any sense in terms of return comments. I have wondered since then how much of the big picture many of the guys on this site have of the world and its economic system, how trade wars can really hurt everyone, how isolating us from the rest of the world can increase China and Russia's influence in the world at our expense, and a lot more. So many people in this country are not really watching what is going on in politics or how the monied interests behind a lot of news stations that they get their information from are influencing them with angry rhetoric and half truths and outright lies that they never fact check on their own. So I have concluded it is a waste of time to get into this stuff at all on this site. For many apparently, all their news stations need to do is cry "class warfare" and they are sure they know all about the subject of money virtually all going to the top from that point on and its effects on their lives (the response I usually get from folks who cry "class warfare" when trying to discuss the topic in depth is another sound byte they have heard "have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?" which tells me they didn't really understand the whole subject at all nor did they want to. Best to just talk cars and let the stuff on politics do what it will. The world is way more complex than a couple sound bytes to explain and few want to go any deeper than the sound bytes they receive it appears.

OK, I'll (sound) bite.

Did you think your point about wealth concentration is unique to modern history and taxation systems? Remember lords, vassals, fiefs and serfs? How about robber-barrons and the steel, oil and railroad trusts of the late 1800's? Certainly being an educated man you've heard theories about confiscation of wealth and how long it would take the wealth to return to the same hands. You cannot confiscate things like knowledge, discipline, ambition, work-ethic and skill. That's what it requires to acccumulate wealth. You can be born into it, but without some measure of the above you won't remain in the club unless you're sheltered away like a veal calf with an allowance. DJT wasn't born poor, but he wasn't handed a billion dollars, and he's certainlly not been isolated from risk.

Are Bill and Hillary just a couple of regular Joe and Joan's? Who signed NAFTA? Which Secretary of State sat at the table to help negotiate TPP? Which President campaigned to fast-track its passage? Who signed the 1997 Telecommunications Act that concentrated TV, radio and print media into the hands of a few elite? Which recent President said the Internet needs more "oversite and regulation"? Which political campaign was using the Orwellian tactic of planting people at campaign rallies to incite violence?

I could turn every one of those statements into a link to multiple news sources if you'd like. Those are the people some think should remain in power... but if you oppose them, even if you can back up your reasons with facts, you're a racist-homophobic-sexist-uneducated-bible-thumpin-redneck. Right? No?

Finally, if a debater can't make their points do you chastise the speaker or the audience? You wanted facts instead of sound bites and slogans. My second paragraph is nothing but easily proven, black & white facts. Take each one of them and tell me why I shouldn't use them to form opinions.

 

[78Brougham]

I got responses to the effect that it was too difficult to understand for most on this site and little else that made any sense in terms of return comments.

they didn't really understand the whole subject at all nor did they want to

So I have concluded it is a waste of time to get into this stuff at all on this site.

You need to learn to talk in very short sound bites like "sad", "the best", "working well". However, I know you can't talk that way anymore than I can and I thank you for it.

Sorry we don't meet up to your intellectual prowess.

Guess we all can't be super geniuses...

"That's All Folks"

 

[65 500]

OK, I'll (sound) bite.

Did you think your point about wealth concentration is unique to modern history and taxation systems? Remember lords, vassals, fiefs and serfs? How about robber-barrons and the steel, oil and railroad trusts of the late 1800's? Certainly being an educated man you've heard theories about confiscation of wealth and how long it would take the wealth to return to the same hands. You cannot confiscate things like knowledge, discipline, ambition, work-ethic and skill. That's what it requires to acccumulate wealth. You can be born into it, but without some measure of the above you won't remain in the club unless you're sheltered away like a veal calf with an allowance. DJT wasn't born poor, but he wasn't handed a billion dollars, and he's certainlly not been isolated from risk.

Are Bill and Hillary just a couple of regular Joe and Joan's? Who signed NAFTA? Which Secretary of State sat at the table to help negotiate TPP? Which President campaigned to fast-track its passage? Who signed the 1997 Telecommunications Act that concentrated TV, radio and print media into the hands of a few elite? Which recent President said the Internet needs more "oversite and regulation"? Which political campaign was using the Orwellian tactic of planting people at campaign rallies to incite violence?

I could turn every one of those statements into a link to multiple news sources if you'd like. Those are the people some think should remain in power... but if you oppose them, even if you can back up your reasons with facts, you're a racist-homophobic-sexist-uneducated-bible-thumpin-redneck. Right? No?

Finally, if a debater can't make their points do you chastise the speaker or the audience? You wanted facts instead of sound bites and slogans. My second paragraph is nothing but easily proven, black & white facts. Take each one of them and tell me why I shouldn't use them to form opinions.

There you go again!
I agree with you 100%, unfortunately no amount of black and white facts are going to change the minds of liberals who, no matter how wrong they are, are ALWAYS right. It's a total waste of time, but I understand feeling the need to reply to a ridiculous statement.

 

[tbm3fan]

Sorry we don't meet up to your intellectual prowess.

Guess we all can't be super geniuses...

"That's All Folks"

Actually we can see through the populist smoke screen just like some did with Huey Long and Father Coughlin while others can't until too late.

 

[tbm3fan]

There you go again!
I agree with you 100%, unfortunately no amount of black and white facts are going to change the minds of liberals who, no matter how wrong they are, are ALWAYS right. It's a total waste of time, but I understand feeling the need to reply to a ridiculous statement.

Jealous...

 

[Fratzog]

You know Carsten, you and I have talked at length about the incredible effects of wealth going to the top in America at the 99%s' expense. But when I did a thread on the historical % contribution of the wealthy in taxes over time since the Great Depression, I got responses to the effect that it was too difficult to understand for most on this site and little else that made any sense in terms of return comments. I have wondered since then how much of the big picture many of the guys on this site have of the world and its economic system, how trade wars can really hurt everyone, how isolating us from the rest of the world can increase China and Russia's influence in the world at our expense, and a lot more. So many people in this country are not really watching what is going on in politics or how the monied interests behind a lot of news stations that they get their information from are influencing them with angry rhetoric and half truths and outright lies that they never fact check on their own. So I have concluded it is a waste of time to get into this stuff at all on this site. For many apparently, all their news stations need to do is cry "class warfare" and they are sure they know all about the subject of money virtually all going to the top from that point on and its effects on their lives (the response I usually get from folks who cry "class warfare" when trying to discuss the topic in depth is another sound byte they have heard "have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?" which tells me they didn't really understand the whole subject at all nor did they want to. Best to just talk cars and let the stuff on politics do what it will. The world is way more complex than a couple sound bytes to explain and few want to go any deeper than the sound bytes they receive it appears.

I feel safe in speaking for many members of this board, don't sell the members here short. There are many here can follow "difficult" arguments. Fact is we'd enjoy reading and discussing your ideas.

 

[saforwardlook]

I will just add that I did not say folks on this site couldn't understand what I had written on the subject of past tax rates for the most wealthy, rather it was one of the most vocal Trump supporters here that did - not me. If I had thought that, I wouldn't have spent the time to write the discussion in the first place.

I believe many on this site, rather, have not taken the time or effort to really search out the reality of what is going on in this country to get us into this messed up state. Democracy requires everyone of us to be on guard for those influences that are taking us down, and rather than doing this diligently, many instead are accepting certain news outlets to do their thinking for them from what I am hearing and seeing and all the phrases that are "common speak" these days among those who listen to them.

I don't make hardly any move in my life without thinking it through carefully - it just makes life easier and better. I don't run with the crowd mentality on any issue. And I don't consider myself of superior intellect, rather I see myself as able to carry my own in most discussions and I work hard to try to have a balanced judgment on matters. In fact, I have noticed that some of the brightest people often have the worst judgment. And I have great regard for what the Bible counsels.

I don't think Obama was perfect. Worst of all, he was not a forceful leader - at least I give Donald high marks on that score. I thought Obama had pretty good judgment, though, and most important, he was able to steer us through not engaging in any new wars during his terms. I do believe he should have put a lot of banksters in jail and pushed harder for banking industry constraints, especially not using our money to do their risky scam investments that brought this country to its knees circa 2008. But the Republicans made sure he could not succeed in that last effort. And he tried to improve healthcare when the Republicans refused to even engage in the discussion of how to improve it. Now it will be informative to see how they ultimately handle it.

I am not a liberal - I don't support LBGT lifestyles, although I do think they should be treated equally under the law and not discriminated against in getting jobs, etc. I don't think we should be paying for abortions, and I don't mind seeing some increased vetting of immigrants who might be more likely to cause mass murders. And I am not big on welfare, although I really don't know enough about that subject to determine how well balanced it is in discriminating between real need and laziness. So in these matters, I am a conservative.

I also believe our racial tensions are at least 80% economic issues where there are so many poor at the bottom of the ladder and are largely due to the ridiculous wealth distribution among our citizens. When so many have no money, it is inevitable that these tensions will explode when everyone is trying to find a scapegoat for their poor situation.

There are a couple things I like about Donald. He has said he will end the lobbying that is taking place in Congress strongly (including government officials who become corporate lobbyists) - this is one of his moves I am waiting for to further my overall opinion of him, because the jury is still out in my case. Corporate special interests are being attended to by Congress rather than the overall well being of the public. And he has been vocal about corporate stashes being brought back into the U.S. from overseas tax havens - but his first incentive of lowering taxes on that giant stash to 10% seems a weak first move. And I love that he decimated the Democratic party heirarchy - and he did some damage to the Republican party as well, but not enough in my view. They are both corrupt. And I like that Donald will at least review all the trade agreements to ensure our people are getting what they deserve in a fair and equitable way - I am not convinced that we are not being screwed. And all the secrecy behind the TPP was disgusting - why was this even acceptable? If he really goes after these agreements with an eagle eye towards fairness to our citizens, that alone will boost my regard for him.

I don't believe focusing on the mexicans and building a wall to keep them out will do anything to improve the economic situation and job loss so rampant especially in the middle of the country. Nor do I believe Donald's castigating the corporations for building products for the U.S. in other countries will yield a big net increase in jobs, but maybe some. Rather, I would like to see Donald move forcefully to have corporations really based in the U.S. pay their fair share of taxes here rather than establishing their headquarters in another nation with low corporate tax rates in order to avoid paying their fair share of taxes they should owe in the U.S. Even FCA (Chrysler) has their headquarters in the Netherlands, not in the U.S. where they do most of their business. This hurts our economy greatly when corporations stash their earnings in such contries and our tax base suffers. That means schools, infrastructure, and so much more suffer greatly.

The biggest problems in this country that are directly responsible for the situation in the middle of the U.S. and elsewhere is Wall Street and corporate greed that have been very successful in getting their lobbyists to get politicians to support their agendas which allows them to rip us off big time (and then get bailed out) and corporate profits to be stashed overseas, thereby being able to avoid paying taxes and trade deals that stink. All of this along with ridiculous tax rates for the very wealthy in comparison to historical norms (the discussion I tried to have earlier) results in the incredible imbalance of wealth in this country where 1% of the population owns as much wealth as the rest of the 99% combined! (source: Oxfam). Think about that! Did our founding fathers have this in mind when they drafted our constitution?! When I hear the Republicans say that we have to cut Social Security and Medicare to fund our needs in the U.S., nothing makes me more angry at that party given that the rich get away with paying virtually no taxes compared to past norms in this country since the Depression. Nothing tells me more that they believe we are all stupid for them to get away with even saying such crap.

And the other part of the jobs problem is that many citizens have not kept pace with the advance of technology. There is some burden of responsibility for people whose jobs are no longer here to make themselves more valuable to those who are hiring by going back to school or otherwise getting more training in fields where there are jobs. Other nations are graduating many more college graduates than we are and their schools are much much better as well (last time I looked, we were #12 in the world). So why should we expect corporations to keep their plants here when the available workers don't have the required skills and the labor rates overseas are lower? It is hard to reverse that giant sucking sound if we are not each individually more responsible for our ability to get a job.

I am a liberal in a few ways - I think that medical care should be a given to each of our citizens - as one of the richest countries in the world, we have the ability to do that if we are smart like most of the rest of the industrialized world. It just makes things better overall for everyone. I do wonder, however, whether there should be some kind of surcharge for those who don't take care of themselves and get obese and never exercise, etc. But I have no idea how that would be implemented. I also believe that it is in our best interests to incentivize higher education rather than cripple those who are willing to embark on that journey - it is a good investment in our country's economic future. We need more "college pukes" not less of them, and they should lean towards majors in areas where they can get a good job.

And too many people depend on credit to finance their lives with next to nothing in savings.

Lastly, I had no use for Hillary and I find it hard to criticize those who voted for Trump over her who badly want change - at least he can do that. I am just concerned about his judgment on world matters and whether he can see the big picture when he has so little experience in governing a country, rather than mostly in real estate.

Although he was called a Socialist and a Communist, which allowed the right wing propaganda machines to dispense with him immediately since he made the big mistake of calling himself a "democratic socialist", in my opinion, he was the candidate who could have done the most to make America Great Again. IMO, he had his focus on all the right issues that are central to the destruction of our middle class especially in the middle of the nation, but no one really considered what he had to say since those news outlets that think for so many were easily able to get so many people to write him off before even considering what he had to say. And he had fire in his belly. And he has been a lifelong moderate Independent in Congress, not a liberal (democrat). And he was trustworthy, and in my view had his heart in the right place. So here we are.

I probably won't engage much any more in this discourse, but at least I wanted to make more clear where I am coming from rather than let others label me and characterize me. And I sincerely wish you all well, including the Trump supporters. I don't think your motives are wrong even if I don't agree with all of his solutions. I would rather talk about fuselage and forward look cars here. Take care.

 

[MYSINBIN]

I will just add that I did not say folks on this site couldn't understand what I had written on the subject of past tax rates for the most wealthy, rather it was one of the most vocal Trump supporters here that did - not me. If I had thought that, I wouldn't have spent the time to write the discussion in the first place.

I believe many on this site, rather, have not taken the time or effort to really search out the reality of what is going on in this country to get us into this messed up state. Democracy requires everyone of us to be on guard for those influences that are taking us down, and rather than doing this diligently, many instead are accepting certain news outlets to do their thinking for them from what I am hearing and seeing and all the phrases that are "common speak" these days among those who listen to them.

I probably won't engage much any more in this discourse, but at least I wanted to make more clear where I am coming from rather than let others label me and characterize me. And I sincerely wish you all well, including the Trump supporters. I don't think your motives are wrong even if I don't agree with all of his solutions. I would rather talk about fuselage and forward look cars here. Take care.

Although there are several items that you and I differ on, I thank you sincerely for your input. Very concise and well written-IMHO.

I'm not a republican, democrat, independent, liberal, conservative, socialist, fascist, or any other category.

I'm just a guy from Schenectady that thinks everyone deserves to be treated as I want to be treated myself.

I always try to look at things from the other person's point of view-though not always successfully.

If nothing else, it is educational.

But, I do take exception to the fact that you didn't mention slabsiders.

I hope to see you all back on the car side.

John

** I had to edit your full response due to size when posting my response.**

 

[65 500]

I would rather talk about fuselage and forward look cars here.

So what you're saying is that you don't like slabs?

edit: crap.

 

[Fratzog]

....

I believe many on this site, rather, have not taken the time or effort to really search out the reality of what is going on in this country to get us into this messed up state. Democracy requires everyone of us to be on guard for those influences that are taking us down, and rather than doing this diligently, many instead are accepting certain news outlets to do their thinking for them from what I am hearing and seeing and all the phrases that are "common speak" these days among those who listen to them. ...

Perhaps however many on this board work long hours just to make ends meet or have other legit reasons for not being able to devote time to research. Research is also doubly hard when the majority of corporate news sources sing from the same song book. Better for members who have alternate ideas to share them here for discussion.

I do believe he should have put a lot of banksters in jail and pushed harder for banking industry constraints, especially not using our money to do their risky scam investments that brought this country to its knees circa 2008. But the Republicans made sure he could not succeed in that last effort.

This also makes me nervous and is one of my greatest fears. On the other hand this cosy relationship Trump has with bankers belies the Hitler comparison made my his detractors.

I do wonder, however, whether there should be some kind of surcharge for those who don't take care of themselves and get obese and never exercise, etc.

Don't forget smokers. Private insurance probably already takes that into account indirectly because those life style result in high blood pressure, cancer etc. In a public system it would never fly for political reasons.

So why should be expect corporations to keep their plants here when the available workers don't have the required skills and the labor rates overseas are lower? It is hard to reverse that giant sucking sound if we are not each individually more responsible for our ability to get a job.

Sorry but you contradict yourself later and it is a total red herring that makes you sound like a corporate apologist. Automation is what has cost most manufacturing jobs of those companies still in NA. Technical and trade positions will always be required in factories. Technical training at local colleges in NA is very good and up to the standard needed in plants. Bottom line is corporate greed being able to pay subsistence pay for the same work due to the so called free trade deals. That results in the sucking sound.

I would like to see Donald move forcefully to have corporations really based in the U.S. pay their fair share of taxes here rather than establishing their headquarters in another nation with low corporate tax rates in order to avoid paying their fair share of taxes they should owe in the U.S.

No argument from me here.

I had no use for Hillary and I find it hard to criticize those who voted for Trump over her who badly want change - at least he can do that. I am just concerned about his judgment on world matters and whether he can see the big picture when he has so little experience in governing a country, rather than mostly real estate.

I'm concerned but not pessimistic. Remember running a large company is a great apprenticeship for his current job. I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

I probably won't engage much any more in this discourse, but at least I wanted to make more clear where I am coming from rather than let others label me and characterize me.

Come on! How long have you been on this board? You must have developed a thick skin by now LOL. It's true all the criticism on this board isn't exactly constructive but we are all big boys and can handle it. Don't stop now.

 

[MYSINBIN]

So what you're saying is that you don't like slabs?

edit: crap.

Missed it by that much.

 

[65 500]

Missed it by that much.

You'd think I would be used to that by now...

 

[saforwardlook]

Thanks guys for taking the time to read my explanation.

I know that folks have very busy lives that makes it tough to really get into all the issues. But without that, I don't think we will climb out of this situation so easily.

Yes, automation is taking a lot of jobs, but I don't see how it can be stopped. That is a real difficult question - at what point in technology development will we have had enough? If computers can drive cars, there are a lot of jobs that are in the crosshairs yet to come and it will cause revamping how we live our lives in a big way. I see Finland is experimenting with its government giving each citizen a basic stipend as part of its solution to the coming job crises worldwide due to aritificial intelligence.

I do have a pretty thick skin - I had to in my previous job. But I also would like to honestly engage in the topic of where this nation is headed and would like to foster honest discussion and dissent, without all the acimony that is normally associated with this topic (but I am not sure this is the best venue is all). I try hard to not show disrespect in how I say things, and sometimes I fail. And I don't like to be mischaracterized.

Overall, I believe things work best in this country when we all work together to find common ground. I just wish our elected politicians had the same goal, whom I just don't trust very much any more to represent this country's best interests.

Oh, and I do appreciate the folks who like slabsides (I like a lot of them too, and even own a couple 1965 300Ls) and those who are formal guys too. Was talking just this evening with a friend of mine in Wisconsin who is considering buying a formal and I relayed a lot of the things to watch out for from the comments on this site. I just like the others a little better, and to each is own.

 

[67Monaco]

I have a question, where were all the demonstrations when Barry stopped Cuban refugees a few weeks ago?

http://keysweekly.com/42/the-end-of-wet-foot-dry-foot/

 

[MoPar Maniac]

No new wars during husseins eight years?
Well...none that were declarted.
The biggest war was the war on the American people.
As for health care that is not a Constitutional function of government. Besides, look at the VA. We know how messed up it is.

 

[67Monaco]

Still there as of 01/31/2017... Sadly, I don't have any illusions Trump will bring them all home either...