Tighten flex plate

[Big_John]

if it's that loose the bolt holes would be hogged out and the bolts necked so that it's probably all junk.

^This^

It occurred to me that you might just want to tighten the bolts and be done with it. You really need to pull the flex plate off and look for damage at the bolts and bolt holes and check for cracks.

If it's fine, just clean the bolts and threaded holes with some brake cleaner and locktite the bolts. You could use either blue or red, with red being my preference here.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I wish I had more knowledge in this

You getting it. Most of us old farts have the busted knuckles resulting from how not to do it.

 

[CBODY67]

In general, in theory, it seems to me that the center part of the t-bar crossmember has a center section to it where the trans mount is. THAT section should be removeable by itself, I suspect. Then remove the driveshaft and lower the trans enough to move it back for clearance to get to the bolts. At least, that's my theory . . .

As for the bolts, HOW or WHY did they get loose to start with? Solving that mystery is important to not set the stage for another similar situation in later miles!

Get NEW Chrysler bolts! Plus any related lock washers, if there are any that are supposed to be there.

Get a NEW flex plate, too. Might save a few $$ trying to re-use the old one, but if there was that much movement of it and the converter, it's money well-spent. PLUS you know it's all new.

Might as well get the transmission out of the way, to the side, as you'll need to probably put a new front pump bushing and seal in it. If the converter was moving enough that the starter would not engage the starter ring on it, that's far too much movement not in the horizontal plane, it appears.

As always, the Factory Service Manual can be your friend. www.mymopar.com . Also, download a file of the '65 Chrysler Parts Manual so you can also see the exploded views of the crossmember and such, too.

In many cases, finding out what you might be dealing with BEFORE taking things apart, or perceiving you can "figure it out along the way" can take more time, effort, and result in more "language and blood drops" than needed. The blood drops might happen anyway, but you know what I mean.

As you've discovered, Chryslers "don't fix like a Ford or Chevy", although many perceive "they are all the same". After you get things taken apart, the similarities can become obvious, but getting to that point is the tricky part, sometimes. In many cases, trying to short-cut things can result in additional issues rather than just getting it done correctly. With NO time/effort savings at all.

Keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67

 

[Lefty71]

I see a couple folks are alluding to the elephant in the room here without just saying it..... What you are describing is a very rare situation.... HOW DID THIS HAPPEN??? Was it put together without torque applied to the bolts?? Is there an underlying issue; vibration, crank register, bolt holes or problem with the bolts themselves?? Flexplate damaged or warped?? You really need someone experienced to solve this before simply tightening the bolts and hoping for the best. Finding loose flex to converter bolts is a way more common issue. Best of luck.

Almost forgot... possibly you need offset dowels on the bellhousing because of an off-center crank to trans centerline issue??

 

[CBODY67]

ONE important thing to watch for! When you get the new bolts (as the old ones could well have stretched, which might have caused the initial looseness), screw them into the crankshaft hub and see that they screw in smoothly do not "bottom out" (on both the torque converter and the crankshaft hub).

Reason I mention that is that on my 2005 Impala, the torque converter bolts stretched and got loose enough to crack the flex plate . . . TWICE. The first one, I paid for. The second one, about two months later, Parts Warranty paid for. ONLY after careful inspection of the bolts, were shiny areas on the smooth chanks noticed. When the tech was questioned, he said "they torqued normally", although they had been stretched and were bottoming out in their holes.

Why did the OEM bolts stretch? Probably due to the "bang shift" issues which high-mileage THM 4L65E transmission tend to have past 100K miles or so, after they have been driven for an hour or so, continuously. The 2000 Impala I had did it too. New pressure solenoids is the alleged fix.

A learning experience which cost me and GM both.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Lefty71]

screw them into the crankshaft hub and see that they screw in smoothly do not "bottom out" (on both the torque converter and the crankshaft hub).

His crank bolts on that motor would hit the seal bridge if too long, not "bottom out"

I guess I'm "assuming" a big block... I don't think he said what motor??

 

[Big_John]

In general, in theory, it seems to me that the center part of the t-bar crossmember has a center section to it where the trans mount is. THAT section should be removeable by itself, I suspect

My experience is if you don't back off the t-bar adjustment, the stub frame flexes back at the t-bar mounts when you remove the crossmember. In other words, the crossmember is integral to the stub frame's strength.
If the stub frame is a little "soft", they will flex the ends of the stub frame down rather abruptly when the crossmember is removed. AMHIK. LOL.

Get NEW Chrysler bolts! Plus any related lock washers, if there are any that are supposed to be there.

No lock washers. The correct bolts are easily available and I agree that new bolts might be best in this situation. He might need to anyway...

 

[413]

The holes have no bottom, so the bolts would hit the block if too long, stopping any rotation before the engine starts, or tearing a piece of the block off.

 

[D Cluley]

MyMopar.com has Factory Service Manuals & Parts Books that you can download. Service Manuals – MyMopar

They do not seem to have the FSM for '65 Dodge, but they do have '65 Chrysler and most of that should be the same. (make sure that you are reading the Chrysler parts & not Imperial as they were quite different at that point)

As Omni said above, the '65 Dodge & Chrysler have an isolated torsion bar mount that other C bodies don't, so your process will be a little different.

1. With the weight off the front wheels, unload the torsion bars by loosening the adjuster bolts that stick out of the bottom of the lower control arms. (In my picture the bolts are already out, but they should be where the red arrow is) Make a note of how many turns you loosen, so you can put them back about the same. They will need to be adjusted to check your ride height when it goes back together.

2. Remove the isolated torsion bar crossmember. This is found only on Dodge & Chrysler in 1965. It goes across the rear of the front stub frame just behind the crossmember that holds the tranmision mount.

There are 2 nuts on each side that hold the isolator crossmember to the frame. Once those are removed, you should be able to pull the isolator crossmember to the rear. Either the torsion bars will stay in the control arms and the crossmember will come off without them, or they will come loose from the control arms and stay attached to the crossmember. Either is ok, but things get more unwieldy if the T bars stay in the crossmember. If the bars come out of the crossmember, you will have to reseat the seal that goes around the end of the torsion bar.

3. Once the isolator is off, you can unbolt the transmission crossmember. There are 2 bolts on each side that go through the rubber isolator blocks, the transmission crossmember & into the frame. There are 2 more bolts on each side that are opposite the rubber block bolts, and then 1 on each side that go vertically up through the crossmember into the frame.
Try not to damage the transmission mount as that is a 1965 only part, so hard to find and expensive.

 

[65 Polara 500]

Thank you for putting the time in to help me out. Hopefully I will have the time and drive to get back under the car today.

 

[Triple Pickle]

I know you’re already in the process of removing the transmission, but if I were in your shoes and could do a re-start on this project, I believe I’d consider leaving the transmission in and taking the engine out before going through all this rigamoroll.
Myself, I’ve never messed with the torsion bars when doing this kind of job. I let the suspension hang and when it comes time to reinstall the cross member I push it back in there with a jack. Done it many times that way right or wrong and never had an issue.
I believe removing the engine or at least just moving it forward would be easier. That being said, I’m usually not satisfied until I totally rebuild the entire drivetrain once I get started wrenching on one.

 

[68 4spd Fury]

Probably not something you want to get into but I would suggest pulling the transmission and taking a look at everything. Depending on how long this condition has been there may be damage to the bolts, holes or threads.

 

[65 Polara 500]

I know you’re already in the process of removing the transmission, but if I were in your shoes and could do a re-start on this project, I believe I’d consider leaving the transmission in and taking the engine out before going through all this rigamoroll.
Myself, I’ve never messed with the torsion bars when doing this kind of job. I let the suspension hang and when it comes time to reinstall the cross member I push it back in there with a jack. Done it many times that way right or wrong and never had an issue.
I believe removing the engine or at least just moving it forward would be easier. That being said, I’m usually not satisfied until I totally rebuild the entire drivetrain once I get started wrenching on one.

Well I dove back into it this morning, and I took most peoples advice and started unloading the torsion bars, the driver side was super easy. I marked the socket with a black marker and went a complete 35 turns. The passenger side can go F itself, holy crap I sprayed the crap out of this side and it is fighting me every step of the way, I had to cut a two foot fence post for leverage and it is still unbelievable hard. It took my 35 minutes for 26 turns. I’m probably good where I am at but I don’t know so I will go until all pressure is off.

 

[Lefty71]

I had to cut a two foot fence post for leverage and it is still unbelievable hard.

I dont think i would try re-using those parts lol.

 

[Big_John]

Well I dove back into it this morning, and I took most peoples advice and started unloading the torsion bars, the driver side was super easy. I marked the socket with a black marker and went a complete 35 turns. The passenger side can go F itself, holy crap I sprayed the crap out of this side and it is fighting me every step of the way, I had to cut a two foot fence post for leverage and it is still unbelievable hard. It took my 35 minutes for 26 turns. I’m probably good where I am at but I don’t know so I will go until all pressure is off.

Usually, they aren't that hard.

Did you have the weight off the front wheels?

 

[65 Polara 500]

Usually, they aren't that hard.

Did you have the weight off the front wheels?

Absolutely, off the ground about a foot!

 

[rags]

Absolutely, off the ground about a foot!

how 'bout the transmission? is that on the ground yet?

 

[65 Polara 500]

how 'bout the transmission? is that on the ground yet?

Here is where I stand. Today has been an absolute f-ing nightmare! Things started well, I unloaded the torsion bars, one was easy the other I don’t want to talk about. Then it came time to remove the cross member, it came out very easy. Ok now it is time to move back the trans, we pulled back the trans and to my surprise the f-ing flex plate dropped out of the bell housing on my head along with six screws (5 in okay shape and one severed half way). I have no idea how I was able to drive this car home. So now I have to drop the tranny not just move it back. While trying to lower it I realize the headers are in the way so I disconnect the headers for the room needed. Now I’m excited and try to lower it again and it gets caught up on the starter, (major pain in the balls, because it is already halfway dropped). I get it about 4” from the ground and notice that the dipstick won’t let me go down.
So I am at a point where I need to make a decision, my car is almost 60 years old, the trans is original to the car. So with all of the work I have put in, I feel I need to either rebuild the tranny or buy a new one with the money I don’t have since I was laid off three weeks ago (this time gave me the time time work but not the money). I have to do the things but don’t know if I can afford them right now. More updates to come

 

[rags]

I have to do the things but don’t know if I can afford them right now.

i'm truly sorry to read about the layoff. there are so many fields where there are no where near enough people. auto repair for one. now that you know what it takes to remove the transmission, if you had to do it again it would be that much easier. don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. get a new flex plate and bolts. stick it back together and enjoy it while you have the time. hopefully you'll be back to work soon and you'll be lucky to have time to drive it.

 

[65 Polara 500]

i'm truly sorry to read about the layoff. there are so many fields where there are no where near enough people. auto repair for one. now that you know what it takes to remove the transmission, if you had to do it again it would be that much easier. don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. get a new flex plate and bolts. stick it back together and enjoy it while you have the time. hopefully you'll be back to work soon and you'll be lucky to have time to drive it.

I agree with you that it would be easier the next time, but who wants to do it twice. I know the tranny has been slipping going into reverse, so it’s only a matter of time before all gears start. It just makes sense to get it done now.