Cartel
Active Member
looks like a stem seal. they are hard as Bakelite
valve cover gasket replacement: found some chunks in the galley
- Thread starter Cartel
- Start date
3175375
Senior Member
Agreed. Umbrella seals on the valve guides.
Ideally, you would remove the cyl heads and take them to a machine shop for replacement. BUT, putting a fitting into the spark plug holes, you can then compress the valve springs, remove the valve retainer locks, and then carefully remove the retainers from the valve stems. Then you have direct access to the seals. Remove and replace the seals and re-assemble in reverse order. Possibly a good mechanic shop can do this, although it's probably been a good while since they might have done this.
My late machine shop operative noted that Chevrolet had some orange silicone seals from the earlier 1980s or so for 454 V-8s. Same stem size and such, just need to trim their length to work on the Chrysler B/RB motors. An upgrade from the normal material Chrysler used back then.
Operating the engine with those hard seals should not cause any problems. I suspect that any oil consumption issues will change, BUT those smaller seal parts can migrate into the oil pan and the oil pump intake screen. Worse case, have to remove the oil pan for cleaning, which might not be that bad of an idea, although a bit difficult and costly to do, anyway.
On the other hand, might be an opportunity to take the heads off and get them refreshed, as it can be possible that some valve guides have/or are getting close to needing attention anyway. Might be a good time to replace the timing chain, too! TWO investments in longer and more trouble-free enjoyment of the vehicle. Just resist the urge to pull the engine and re-do it, unless that is in the longer-term plan and you can disable the car for that long. Considering this is getting to be "driving season", probably best to do the least right now! But you can start saving and planning for "the rest of the rebuild", later.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
My late machine shop operative noted that Chevrolet had some orange silicone seals from the earlier 1980s or so for 454 V-8s. Same stem size and such, just need to trim their length to work on the Chrysler B/RB motors. An upgrade from the normal material Chrysler used back then.
Operating the engine with those hard seals should not cause any problems. I suspect that any oil consumption issues will change, BUT those smaller seal parts can migrate into the oil pan and the oil pump intake screen. Worse case, have to remove the oil pan for cleaning, which might not be that bad of an idea, although a bit difficult and costly to do, anyway.
On the other hand, might be an opportunity to take the heads off and get them refreshed, as it can be possible that some valve guides have/or are getting close to needing attention anyway. Might be a good time to replace the timing chain, too! TWO investments in longer and more trouble-free enjoyment of the vehicle. Just resist the urge to pull the engine and re-do it, unless that is in the longer-term plan and you can disable the car for that long. Considering this is getting to be "driving season", probably best to do the least right now! But you can start saving and planning for "the rest of the rebuild", later.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
I got suckered into the Chevy valve seals when I transplanted my 440 6bbl into my 2nd PK21 and had a hard time getting it started and my GTO friend suggested I had a stuck valve from it sitting outside under a tarp over (1?) winter and that I should do a valve job.
Nice guy in the NAPA machine shop, well known in the antique Ford Model T & A world and he sold me on it as I was just a young'in to the Mopar World. He had too machine the stem bosses and I take it he gave the valves and seats a heavy grind, but being mainly a Ford & Chevy guy he didn't know about setting the 'Deck Height' (as we called it back then) of the valves. He obviously didn't have that Mopar gauge to check the valve stem height and after that I could not pull 65 hundred RPM's anymore as at 6 grand it felt like valve float and the engine was falling on it's face so to say.
So I vote no Cheby seals, the umbrella seals are just fine.
Oh and also pull the oil pan and clean or replace your oil pickup screen you would be surprised as to how much is in there.
.
^This^
The Chevy 454 orange silicone seals were the umbrella-type seals. Just about 1/8" longer than the OEM Chrysler (black at that time) umbrella seals, so they need to be trimmed a bit prior to installation. In these later times, probably no need for the Chevy 454 seals, just use the quality black Chrysler-spec umbrella seals.
By observation, if the machinist "sunk" the valves too far, than adjusting the stem length would have been necessary to prevent too much preload on the hydraulic lifters.
Respectfully,
CBODY67
By observation, if the machinist "sunk" the valves too far, than adjusting the stem length would have been necessary to prevent too much preload on the hydraulic lifters.
Respectfully,
CBODY67
Cartel
Active Member
I'm thinking the red silicone..but my valves are probably filthy. would the back umbrellas ride up and down with the valve?
do both I-E valves have seals? thanks
I've done it before on a honda prelude. Not what I was hoping to deal with at the moment. By rights I should be pulling the motor and trans and rebuilding them both.
Its just not in the cards right now thats for sure. things are changing fast around here
do both I-E valves have seals? thanks
I've done it before on a honda prelude. Not what I was hoping to deal with at the moment. By rights I should be pulling the motor and trans and rebuilding them both.
Its just not in the cards right now thats for sure. things are changing fast around here
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Cartel
Active Member
bump
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
Sorry for not getting back to this sooner (racing season has fully started). Again the FSM is your friend, by the FSM illustration both valves get seals with initial installation with the seal pushed down fully on the guide boss. Don't worry about it going up and down with the valve, that's the way it was designed and a little oil (mist) getting into the guide may aid in stem lubrication. On a Mopar there really isn't a lot of oil flying around the rocker shafts except for running at high RPM's so the simple umbrellas seals suffice. Not like a Chevy with pushrod oil feed rockers, they seem to spray more oil around.
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Cartel
Active Member
Ok thanks. For some reason I think back to someone saying back in the day they only put seals on the intake or something but I did see they both take seal and this confirms it. Now I just got to decide if I get the black felpros or the pink enginetechs....either way I gotta do it sooner than later
I'm gonna do the compressed air method with this:
I just need to source a good spring compressor theres lots of junk on amazon.
I wont be able to pull the oil pan, If I only lost 1 seal and I see that all are still there I should be good but yes if they are all missing then I'm gonna have to take it more serious.
I also found a 4bbl intake so I want to ditch this 2bbl and get a 750 edelbrock with electric choke so I can deep 6 that flapper so I'll be able to check the valley
I'm gonna do the compressed air method with this:
I just need to source a good spring compressor theres lots of junk on amazon.
I wont be able to pull the oil pan, If I only lost 1 seal and I see that all are still there I should be good but yes if they are all missing then I'm gonna have to take it more serious.
I also found a 4bbl intake so I want to ditch this 2bbl and get a 750 edelbrock with electric choke so I can deep 6 that flapper so I'll be able to check the valley
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