Victimized a second time

[tbm3fan]

What a day. My wife gets a phone call at noon telling her that the car has been found and that it is getting towed right now. So much for an earlier alert not that it would have mattered being 35 miles away and seeing appointments all day.

She finds out the tow company and they quote her $240 to get the car out this same day. Hours 8-5 and they need the release from the finding Police Department. Oh, and storage is at $60/day and there is a $60 gate fee extra if you want to get the car out on the weekend. However, guess what you cannot get a police report on the weekend. No report no car. Also, unlike the Concord Police who answer the phone, the Pittsburg Police never answered the phone or returned my calls.

Of course I have no idea if the car is driveable considering some hacking needed to be done to unlock the ignition, steering wheel, and the interlock on the floor shift. Come Monday we will be at $420 to get the car out. Also, of course, Monday is a work day with appointments which I just don't cancel. Talk about being screwed on both ends.

Did learn that these cars, if not picked up, eventually are sold off to Mexico for scrap. The tow yards get $60 for each car maximum. This person's ex-husband operates a tow company and so she knows the routine. Told me to walk in an offer them $150 take it or leave it since she knows they won't get more in the short run. I may do that otherwise I am going to ignore them if they want more.

Seems a state legislator is looking into changing the law regarding recovery a stolen cars. Think I am going to call him and pass on my observations. Namely a person should have 24 hours, the next business day to get their car. Monday to Tuesday and so forth except Friday would get till Monday. No storage fees during that time. After that storage fees, for stolen cars, limited to $30/day. To prevent them from going around the tow fee also limited for stolen cars.

The tow yards would no doubt complain they would go out of business. Well if poorly run or simply too many then that is just too bad. There is no way it is morally right to charge a person hundreds of dollars to recover a stolen car through no fault of their own. While not for me I am very sure this can be quite a burden on low income people who usually have cars with limited alarm protection. The "system" as set up is heavily weighted and penalizes innocent people while the real thief gets aways scott free and they know it.

 

[Davea Lux]

You do realize that some jurisdictions split the tow fees between the Police agency of record and the tow company. Why do you think they do not answer the phone?

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

AND . . . where's your insurance company through all of this?

Unfortunately, you need to make contact with the tow facility and let them know you desire to retrieve the car. Plus, all of the "fees and charges" seem pretty reasonable to me, all things considered. The fact that all of this happened on the eve of a weekend is unfortunate.

Might it be possible that you could show up and inspect the car without removing it from their facility?

Remember, the tow companies usually are significantly regulated by the jurisdictions/counties/states they operate in. Rates, etc. And, they usually all operate on the same business model. They provide a service (retrieval/storage) for which they charge, just like any other business.

You might see if they might cut you a deal, being on the weekend and all, plus see if they can deliver it to a safe location where it can reside for a while and NOT get the attention of code enforcement. THEY have something YOU want to get back, and THEY know that as well as YOU do.

You might contact the police dept and see when their report will be ready/completed, too. They might have a small doc fee for providing it, too. You'll probably have to be there in person to get it, too.

Certainly, these are unplanned situations and inconveniences. But they have to be dealt with, one way or another. Including your appointments, which probably can be rescheduled?

To me, deal with the tow company as you can, but be prepared to pay their asking/stated prices. Pay with a credit card and worry about paying that off later. Right now, the main thing is to regain "control" of the vehicle, in whatever condition it might be in.

The ONLY way they can probably get control and sell the vehicle for scrap is to FIRST file a mechanic's lein on it, when the tow/storage charges equal of exceed the possible value it might have. That takes some time to make it happen. As you've already been in contact with them, it might be a little harder for them to declare it "abandoned", possibly. After all of these things have happened (mechanic's lein, "abandoned", etc.), many will sell them via auction rather than arbitrarily sell them for scrap metal.

In one respect, you've got a little while before all of that can happen, BUT the time is still ticking away as "the meter" rings up more money.

As for any "arrangements" between the municipality and the tow companies, I'll not address that. It's the local/regional/state entities which issue the tow licenses to the operators, for a fee. A fee that could be a yearly lump sum or could be a "per tow" fee (which should be stated somewhere in the statutes of the municipality/governing body that issues the license). All charges of the tow company MUST be clearly indicated on any bills or signage on the property, or as specified by the licensing entity.

Bottom line, knowing where you're going to end up is, get the paperwork from the law enforcement people, get the car released to you, and possibly have it delivered to a secure location you have control of. Pay with a credit card, what their stated fees are, proceed to get the car fixed and operational again. Then worry about how to pay the credit card company later. Then get on with things . . .

Respectfully,
CBODY67

 

[tbm3fan]

I have already stated what I will do and that does not include paying their fees. If they want to come after me I am now well versed in how to stall them for quite some time.

They don't deliver for any reason unless you want to pay for another tow after you present the release form to them at their office.

Insurance is not involved on any car this old. No one in their right mind carries comprehensive or collision on such a car. I just dropped it off my Focus being at 15 years as the book value would never justify average body repairs for it.

Cancelling appointments made in advance is wrong. Period!

 

[69monaco]

Maybe maybe………Aahhh forget it.....

 

[CBODY67]

As far as "paying their fees", its their rules you have to play by. Of course, if you desire to hand them the keys, basically, that's your deal.

Your level of insurance coverage is your deal, too, provided you consider your vehicles "disposable" and would rather chunk them than repair them.

As for appointments, I've had to change appointments around, when something came up that would conflict with them, as has the person I made them with, from time to time. A normal part of things, to me. Whether it's getting laid up in the hospital or needing to get a piece of paper from the police department during normal business hours, appointments can be re-arranged to cover for these situations.

Regards,
CBODY67

 

[cantflip]

I have already stated what I will do and that does not include paying their fees. If they want to come after me I am now well versed in how to stall them for quite some time.

They don't deliver for any reason unless you want to pay for another tow after you present the release form to them at their office.

Insurance is not involved on any car this old. No one in their right mind carries comprehensive or collision on such a car. I just dropped it off my Focus being at 15 years as the book value would never justify average body repairs for it.

Cancelling appointments made in advance is wrong. Period!

Sorry to hear about your ongoing fun with this... two things to think about, but make your decisions based on your world.

I keep full coverage on my 99 GMC Suburban, which was hit recently... My reasoning revolves around my Florida experiences (Orlando actually... never had this much BS in SW Florida). I have been involved in a few accident where it was nice to have the insurance provider to chase down the other party, and the PD here does not go after hit and runs unless there is significant injuries or loss of life. Plus state law gets me a new windshield if damaged... the coverage isn't much more than what I'd pay without it. The biggest downside is if the damage is extensive, they can total loss it at whatever tiny value they assign the model. It also can be used to cover any valuables I have inside...

The other thought, since it was stolen, is how much do you want it back? Unless she left the keys in the car, your best scenario is needing a new junkyard column. Based on most theft cars I've seen, there will be other damage too. With the fees involved, you may be better off just spending on the replacement, which you may decide to get anyhow... there is no win in this, right now you're just determining how hard the losses are for you.

BTW, I don't carry full coverage on the parts car... just so no insurance company can force me into a "total loss".

 

[traintech55]

I feel your pain on this one. About 15 years ago, I had a 1988 Diplomat stolen. When the car was recovered they gave me 1 hour to retrieve the car from where it was wrecked before they would tow it to an impound lot. The real fun part was it got hit in the right doors as the people who stole it were running from the police, (guess who hit the doors). Thank God I knew how to replace the column and the doors, it still cost me a lot at the time. They never did notify me if they caught the person who stole it.

 

[GJS]

Ugh. Sorry to hear about this. My one car that was ever towed was a pile of crap and barely driveable. Simple situation there: "Here are the keys. Have fun with her."

Never the less, it astounds me how in situations like yours, the person who was trespassed apon invariably gets the poo end of the stick.

 

[FURYGT]

No one in their right mind carries comprehensive or collision on such a car. I just dropped it off my Focus being at 15 years as the book value would never justify average body repairs for it.

I spent nearly 25 years in personal and commercial insurance claims and have been working as an insurance agent for several years. Many of the direct insurance companies, GEICO, ESSURANCE etc. tell you not to carry comprehensive or collision coverage on an older car, which may make sense. The reality is they don't want to deal with handling a claim on an older vehicle. However, I give my clients the option and the price and some things to consider in making this decision. For comprehensive coverage, which includes glass breakage, one thing to consider is a replacement windshield may cost you $300 - $800 depending on the car but comprehensive coverage, which is available in some states with no deductible on glass claims may only cost you $60/year so I ask is it worth it to spend $60 (or even $100) per year to know that if a truck kicks up a rock and cracks a windshield your insurance will replace it with nothing or a small deductible out of your wallet?

Similarly, is it worth while to pay a few hundred dollars a year for collision coverage on an older car? If the car is a $1,000 beater, probably not. However, do you live in area where there are a lot folks without car insurance even if it is the law or are there a lot cars getting stolen in your area that get into accidents?

People think that will never happen to me. So here is a great example. I keep full coverage on my 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab as it has low mileage for its age (83k today) and is in good shape. So less than 2 years ago my wife takes the truck to the grocery store, parks in the handicap parking (she has a permit and is disabled). She parks with the driver's side facing the store. She comes out, puts the groceries in the back seat on the left side and comes home. 2 days later we decide to go somewhere in the truck and she goes around to the passenger side and calls me over telling me someone hit the truck. Someone, likely in a full-size van in the adjacent parking space at the grocery store (who likely should not be driving) did a hit and run. They crushed in the right rear door, the right rear cab corner and did a bit of damage to the bed. There is no F'in way they did not know they hit my truck. The impact had to cause the truck to rock. Nearly $4,000 in damage and because I spent a few hundred a year for collision coverage I only had to pay $500 to repair the truck vs. nearly $4,000.

The point is when it comes to insurance, you need to weigh the pros and cons and look at things from a cost effective and a risk perspective point of view. My view is the same as Cantflip's, if you can afford full coverage on an older vehicle that is not a beater it's nice to have full coverage so that your insurance company can go after the person who caused an accident or go after their crappy insurance company that won't return your calls.

 

[Carmine]

As far as "paying their fees", its their rules you have to play by.

Absolutely not. Their policy is dictated by what the local, ELECTED municipality dictates in their Request For Proposal (RFP). While it's true they may in fact be following the current contact with the municipality, such abuses are what (should) cause citizens to petition their representatives. While this IS possible to regulate at the state level, it's easier at the local level.

Policies like this would never be accepted in the city I represent. In fact, I went as far as requiring a sign posted in the impound office stating rates before I would motion to approve the tow contract.

 

[Carmine]

I do agree there is a lot of graft in the tow/impound business. My Mexican RC was parked legally in my wife's employers parking lot. A car ran off the road and blasted the passenger side at WOT. The po-po showed up and a tow company started hooking up to the RC. My wife said "I don't want the car towed, I'll have my own company come out."

The cops tried to argue with her, trying to intimate her with obvious statements like "this vehicle cannot be driven". She fired back with "this vehicle is on private property, I have the permission of the person in control of the property to leave it here until my tow arrives".

They refused to listen, so she called me. I asked her to give her phone to the officer directing the tow truck. I went through some yes/no questions with him, along the lines of "You acknowledge this vehicle is on private property, not a roadway?" (I told her to be obvious and take some cell photos.) Then I concluded with "just so we're on the same page, these are these are the notes I'm going to give the state police when I petition them to investigate towing practices within your city... and I'm exactly the kind of persistent SOB who knows how to get that done."

He didn't say another word. He got on his PA speaker and told the tow driver to unhook. Then he shoved the phone back at my wife. She said the funniest part was that he tried to stare her down and put up the police car's window abruptly. Except the window motor was struggling and took an awkward amount of time to close.

Whether is plain ol' graft, or just "favors" from the tow company, the police develop cozy relationships that allow this kind of abuse.

Gasper Fiore towing scandal prompts internal investigation at Michigan State Police

 

[CBODY67]

Absolutely not. Their policy is dictated by what the local, ELECTED municipality dictates in their Request For Proposal (RFP). While it's true they may in fact be following the current contact with the municipality, such abuses are what (should) cause citizens to petition their representatives. While this IS possible to regulate at the state level, it's easier at the local level.

Policies like this would never be accepted in the city I represent. In fact, I went as far as requiring a sign posted in the impound office stating rates before I would motion to approve the tow contract.

Thanks for your comments.

When there have been towing company "abuses", all it generally takes is to call a regional TV station to investigate the situations. That can get more knowledge "out to the masses", quickly. The TV station can also do a more through investigation via many tools they can use, including Public Information/Open Records Act inquiries. THEN the local elected councils are also asked about these things AND if the tow company in question is following the stated laws of operation. Sometimes, BOTH (local regulations and operations of the tow company) end up getting changed quickly.

Perhaps, having been in the dealership parts business for over 41 years, having dealt with local tow companies as a matter of course in our normal business activities, my viewpoint might be a little different. In those decades, our local situation has gone from many dealerships and body shops running their own wrecker services to several tow companies who run good operations with capabilities from roll-back trucks to hd tractor-trailer capabilities, as the area has grown. Not related to a particular salvage yard, other than their accumulated abandoned vehicles they've towed in and will auction off via online auctions. One is AAA-certified. Not the same game it used to be!

I know they have expenses they need to deal with as a matter of course. Regulations at the TX state level and also at the local level, too. Some might "deal" a bit, too, for dealership employees, sometimes. I've came to know many of the operators for many decades, so they know who I am and who I work for, if that matters. I sold many of them parts in their earlier years.

In our area of TX, operating licenses were very specific. Our dealership wrecker was permitted in the local county and also in several adjacent counties. But we could go anywhere "if requested". But in some cases, local services had to be involved in case of accidents and related storage until we could get there. As the other tow services expanded, the local dealerships got out of that business.

I don't question their charges, which are usually pretty reasonable, to me, as I know that they'll provide an itemized bill/statement. I also feel that everybody's charges will be the same or close to each others', too. I don't feel I'm in any real position to "bargain" or say "I'll pay $______ and not one penny more". They have their costs to cover and all of that, just as ANY business does . . . and still make a profit to stay in business. Nothing's free, or as "cheap as it used to be". That's the reality as I see it.

Everybody's got their own risk tolerance and how they deal with it. AND how it all fits into their particular budgets. Be that as it may.

CBODY67

 

[commando1]

Whether is plain ol' graft, or just "favors" from the tow company, the police develop cozy relationships that allow this kind of abuse.

Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it. And it's been going on since a hook was first attached to a Model T.

 

[traintech55]

Ah yes, it is no different here in the Chicago area. The good news is after 40 years the worst towing company, (Lincoln park towing), finally got their towing licence revoked for such bad practices. The were so bad the even had a song written about them, (The Lincoln Park Pirates).

 

[67Monaco]

Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it. And it's been going on since a hook was first attached to a Model T.

Exactly why they're referred to as road pirates. The cops...

 

[tbm3fan]

I spent nearly 25 years in personal and commercial insurance claims and have been working as an insurance agent for several years. Many of the direct insurance companies, GEICO, ESSURANCE etc. tell you not to carry comprehensive or collision coverage on an older car, which may make sense. The reality is they don't want to deal with handling a claim on an older vehicle. However, I give my clients the option and the price and some things to consider in making this decision. For comprehensive coverage, which includes glass breakage, one thing to consider is a replacement windshield may cost you $300 - $800 depending on the car but comprehensive coverage, which is available in some states with no deductible on glass claims may only cost you $60/year so I ask is it worth it to spend $60 (or even $100) per year to know that if a truck kicks up a rock and cracks a windshield your insurance will replace it with nothing or a small deductible out of your wallet?

Similarly, is it worth while to pay a few hundred dollars a year for collision coverage on an older car? If the car is a $1,000 beater, probably not. However, do you live in area where there are a lot folks without car insurance even if it is the law or are there a lot cars getting stolen in your area that get into accidents?

People think that will never happen to me. So here is a great example. I keep full coverage on my 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab as it has low mileage for its age (83k today) and is in good shape. So less than 2 years ago my wife takes the truck to the grocery store, parks in the handicap parking (she has a permit and is disabled). She parks with the driver's side facing the store. She comes out, puts the groceries in the back seat on the left side and comes home. 2 days later we decide to go somewhere in the truck and she goes around to the passenger side and calls me over telling me someone hit the truck. Someone, likely in a full-size van in the adjacent parking space at the grocery store (who likely should not be driving) did a hit and run. They crushed in the right rear door, the right rear cab corner and did a bit of damage to the bed. There is no F'in way they did not know they hit my truck. The impact had to cause the truck to rock. Nearly $4,000 in damage and because I spent a few hundred a year for collision coverage I only had to pay $500 to repair the truck vs. nearly $4,000.

The point is when it comes to insurance, you need to weigh the pros and cons and look at things from a cost effective and a risk perspective point of view. My view is the same as Cantflip's, if you can afford full coverage on an older vehicle that is not a beater it's nice to have full coverage so that your insurance company can go after the person who caused an accident or go after their crappy insurance company that won't return your calls.

The car in the current condition was worth $1000 as it needed a new bumper cover and new hood. I have both but have not yet painted and placed them on fortunately. Those are now in safe keeping for my 91. If I had it would be worth maybe $100 more. Coverage from CSAA was around $250 per year. So at four years I would have paid $1000 on a $1000 car. That is a bad move, in California, as any damage would get the car totaled immediately and all that would happen is I get my money back. I'm sure the column has been damage. There are no such cars in the yards around here as I look every few weeks. In short it was a great driver but worth nothing except to those few who appreciate such cars.

So my options are to pay almost $500 on Monday and who knows how much to repair? Or, two, pay the $500 and have a useless car flat bedded home with it's car registration due on October 12th along with smog. Then I have it hauled off before that date. Neither of those choices are morally right under any circumstance but I am supposed to suck it up? The only thing I'll suck up is a beer...

 

[67Monaco]

The car in the current condition was worth $1000 as it needed a new bumper cover and new hood. I have both but have not yet painted and placed them on fortunately. Those are now in safe keeping for my 91. If I had it would be worth maybe $100 more. Coverage from CSAA was around $250 per year. So at four years I would have paid $1000 on a $1000 car. That is a bad move, in California, as any damage would get the car totaled immediately and all that would happen is I get my money back. I'm sure the column has been damage. There are no such cars in the yards around here as I look every few weeks. In short it was a great driver but worth nothing except to those few who appreciate such cars.

So my options are to pay almost $500 on Monday and who knows how much to repair? Or, two, pay the $500 and have a useless car flat bedded home with it's car registration due on October 12th along with smog. Then I have it hauled off before that date. Neither of those choices are morally right under any circumstance but I am supposed to suck it up? The only thing I'll suck up is a beer...

I'd go get the plates off of it and let the impound yard crush the rest/ sell it / whatever, and cut my losses.

 

[tbm3fan]

I'd go get the plates off of it and let the impound yard crush the rest/ sell it / whatever, and cut my losses.

I'm pretty sure the lot won't let me in to see the car unless it was required by city law. For that I'd have to check with the city in question.

A moment ago I was outside talking with a neighbor for saw my wife drive up in the new car. I learn that she was a para-legal in the distant past and is going back to work for the fun of it. We talked and she said why pay anything and then be stuck with a hulk to part out or tow away. Just let them keep it and ignore their entreaties to you. They will put a lien on you but since I am self-employed nothing can come of it. You might take a hit in your FICO score for a couple of years but that is it. Well my score is just over 800 and I need no loans since I already got one for the new car and am now done.

 

[traintech55]

I would write the loss off on my taxes for this year. You did use the car for work once in a while, right?