Voyager 1 and 2 still alive!!!! 38,000 mph!

[amazinblue82]

While the Voyagers will be putting along for infinity, scientists back home are busy trying to figure out ways to blow by them at FTL speeds. We've posted here before about the theoretical potential of Warp Drives and now it looks like NASA has stumbled onto something that will require more investigation. This video summarizes the work nicely.

cool stuff.

once we can marry Newtonian physics with quantum mechanics -- finding a quantum theory of gravity -- science fiction could become scientific reality.

the mathematical abstractions are beyond my capability ... but I understand it well enough to believe "how" this universe works is there for us to discover. we (collective humankind) just havent figured it out yet.

So say we can figure out FTL? Where will be go? As die-hard trekkies know, we havent even left THIS galaxy 1,000 years from now -- even with "wormholes" and "trans-warp" conduits.

And there still is NOT empirical evidence ANYBODY is out there .. math says there has to be, otherwise we dont understand math yet.

here we sit ... waiting for the Vulcans to land in Montana in 2063

 

[3175375]

cool stuff.

once we can marry Newtonian physics with quantum mechanics -- finding a quantum theory of gravity -- science fiction could become scientific reality.

the mathematical abstractions are beyond my capability ... but I understand it well enough to believe "how" this universe works is there for us to discover. we (collective humankind) just havent figured it out yet.

So say we can figure out FTL? Where will be go? As die-hard trekkies know, we havent even left THIS galaxy 1,000 years from now -- even with "wormholes" and "trans-warp" conduits.

View attachment 502007

And there still is NOT empirical evidence ANYBODY is out there .. math says there has to be, otherwise we dont understand math yet.

here we sit ... waiting for the Vulcans to land in Montana in 2063

View attachment 502008

Carl Sagan did a good analysis of the probability of other life in the series ‘Cosmos’…

 

[amazinblue82]

source: Launch Countdown Webb/NASA

we'll see .. as of now, time is getting close.

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

source: Launch Countdown Webb/NASA

we'll see .. as of now, time is getting close.

View attachment 503971

A whole bunch of scientists and engineers are going to have a stressful Christmas.

 

[Fratzog]

a stressful Christmas.

My understanding is the deployment process will last about a month and it looks extremely complex to a layperson like me. I would be astounded if the whole thing went off without a hitch.

 

[Turboomni]

My understanding is the deployment process will last about a month and it looks extremely complex to a layperson like me.

As another layperson I have heard getting this thing into the correct orbit will be touchy as well and never mind if something goes wrong, there is no way to go there and correct it mechanically like the Hubble's mirror problem. Also the billions of dollars at stake. They hope for 10 to 15 years of service and a minimum of 5. In any case till the fuel for corrections is depleted.

 

[PeugFra]

For the fans of the hardy Voyagers, this article on another proposed interstellar probe may be an interesting read.

From the human perspective, I was struck by this: "if you're into instant gratification, do not get involved with space exploration".

And from the cosmic perspective: "Not many people know but we are about to exit our local interstellar cloud that this heliosphere has been ploughing through for the last 60,000 years. We're entering a completely new region."

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

JWST launch has been delayed to Dec 25 due to expected bad weather on the 24th.
On launch day, there is only a 1/2 hour window when the earth's rotation will bring it into the correct position.
Launch Countdown Webb/NASA

 

[thethee]

JWST launch has been delayed to Dec 25 due to expected bad weather on the 24th.
On launch day, there is only a 1/2 hour window when the earth's rotation will bring it into the correct position.
Launch Countdown Webb/NASA

T minus 10 minutes!!

 

[thethee]

 

[thethee]

Successful launch!

 

[Fratzog]

Deployment initiated.

 

[Turboomni]

Narrated description of what has and will happen.

 

[amazinblue82]

Narrated description of what has and will happen.

neat stuff. thanks.

two things .. one i remembered now and one I learned -- but can't quite visualize -- new today.

1. the heatshield array (mirror/ instruments on cold side, propulsion on the hot side) .. width of human hair and each one of the five layers the size of a tennis court. 3-4 year ago, they ripped that shield "stretching" it (deploying it on telescoping arms) in ground testing. That was bad and I took it as as "showstopper" on the real mission.

2. video narrator said Webb is in "halo orbit" around L2 and as such, "stays" in earth's shadow to help it keep cool, and "the brightest thing it sees is Jupiter".

Query then ..

so why does the hot side of Webb get to water-boiling temps while cold side is nearly negative 400F IF the brightest light it sees is Jupiter? Of course .. its solar radiation but if Webb is in "shadow", what is its "line of sight" TO catch those rays?​

on 2, if somebody has it/seen it (Webb's orbit relative to its Sun/Earth/Moon shadow alignment) diagrammed clearly, point it to me if you can please?

 

[thethee]

Query then ..

so why does the hot side of Webb get to water-boiling temps while cold side is nearly negative 400F IF the brightest light it sees is Jupiter? Of course .. its solar radiation but if Webb is in "shadow", what is its "line of sight" TO catch those rays?​

Wondered about this as well as I can't imagine Jupiter giving off enough light for those temps.

But then again, I have no idea how hot it could get in direct sunlight.

 

[3175375]

neat stuff. thanks.

two things .. one i remembered now and one I learned -- but can't quite visualize -- new today.

View attachment 506028

1. the heatshield array (mirror on hot side, instruments on cold side) .. width of human hair and each one of the five layers the size of a tennis court. 3-4 year ago, they ripped that shield "stretching" it (deploying it on telescoping arms) in ground testing. That was bad and I took it as as "showstopper" on the real mission.

2. video narrator said Webb is in "halo orbit" around L2 and as such, "stays" in earth's shadow to help it keep cool, and "the brightest thing it sees is Jupiter".

Query then ..

so why does the hot side of Webb get to water-boiling temps while cold side is nearly negative 400F IF the brightest light it sees is Jupiter? Of course .. its solar radiation but if Webb is in "shadow", what is its "line of sight" TO catch those rays?​

on 2, if somebody has it/seen it (Webb's orbit relative to its Sun/Earth/Moon shadow alignment) diagrammed clearly, point it to me if you can please?

Regarding heat, I suspect the solar wind is a contributor and bends around some.

 

[LocuMob]

I was watching a show last night that explained how the Webb was made, and functions. Unfortunately, I fell asleep around halfway through. It was great in that they used little technical jargon, and also showed what it is capable of doing, that Hubble can't. I fell asleep around the time they were showcasing the shield. It took them approximately five years to make and assemble, coated with silicone and aluminum. We have some incredible technology today, most of which we take for granted.

 

[Fratzog]

neat stuff. thanks.

two things .. one i remembered now and one I learned -- but can't quite visualize -- new today.

View attachment 506028

1. the heatshield array (mirror on hot side, instruments on cold side) .. width of human hair and each one of the five layers the size of a tennis court. 3-4 year ago, they ripped that shield "stretching" it (deploying it on telescoping arms) in ground testing. That was bad and I took it as as "showstopper" on the real mission.

2. video narrator said Webb is in "halo orbit" around L2 and as such, "stays" in earth's shadow to help it keep cool, and "the brightest thing it sees is Jupiter".

Query then ..

so why does the hot side of Webb get to water-boiling temps while cold side is nearly negative 400F IF the brightest light it sees is Jupiter? Of course .. its solar radiation but if Webb is in "shadow", what is its "line of sight" TO catch those rays?​

on 2, if somebody has it/seen it (Webb's orbit relative to its Sun/Earth/Moon shadow alignment) diagrammed clearly, point it to me if you can please?

Wondered myself about that. Best I can understand is the L2 orbit isn't intended to "shield" the telescope from the sun as much as it is to allow the telescope to remain permanently oriented with it's shield facing the sun (if that makes sense). This video helped me visualise it.
Orbit - Webb/NASA

 

[amazinblue82]

@thethee, @3175375, @LocuMob, @Fratzog

the geometry might be kickin' in a bit for me. i think the "halo orbit" Webb will be in around L2 is perpendicular (the imaginary planes of the two are a right angles) to the earth's orbit around the sun ... at a "diameter" as wide at Moon orbit around the earth.

fratzog's observation ... keeping Webb facing sun at L2 (for constant facing to Sun for power, fuel conservation benefits L2 orbit stabililty offers, etc) ... is much more understandable/desirable mission goal than "shadow thermal management" which was on my mind.

i am sure they do some thermal management maneuvers (using thrusters for changing collection angles as well as maintaining L2 position stability) with Webb ... but to get the hot side up to positive 240F, ~95 million miles from the sun, Webb needs a lotta time catching rays.

a perpendicular orbit nearly 200k miles wide would allow that much IR to hit Webb (similar temp achirved on sunny side of the Moon at roughly same distance from Sun)... plus to do its main job of being a telescope looking at the cosmos without earth/moon shadows or atmospheric distortion.

somebody see it different straighten me out please.

 

[thethee]

The telescope itself will be operating at about 225 degrees below zero Celsius (minus 370 Fahrenheit). The temperature difference between the hot and cold sides of the telescope is huge - you could almost boil water on the hot side, and freeze nitrogen on the cold side!

To have the sunshield be effective protection (it gives the telescope the equivalent of SPF one million sunscreen) against the light and heat of the Sun/Earth/Moon, these bodies all have to be located in the same direction.

This is why the telescope will be out at the second Lagrange point.
Orbit - Webb/NASA

I think the Jupiter comment had been misguided as there is no mention of it by nasa and the telescope will get hit by light directly from the sun.