Voyager 1 and 2 still alive!!!! 38,000 mph!

[PeugFra]

You probably need to have your two-digit age today start with a "6" to remember well-enough what happened 55 years ago this coming Saturday.

Yes, my first digit is "6" and I do remember these scenes glimmering over the screen like it happened just yesterday. I was primed by a youth scientific journal ("Kijk" for the Dutch readers among us, which translates to "Look!" for all the others) that explained everything really well.

Just looking at an event or an object in a concentrated way can add so much to your life!

 

[amazinblue82]

One from Jimbo Webb. Another "direct" imiage of an "exoplanet" (one outside our solor system. Gas giant (like our Jupiter, but way bigger), cold as h***, twelve ligh years away from us.

You can nerd out here: NASA’s Webb Images Cold Exoplanet 12 Light-Years Away - NASA Science

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So, as impressive as Jimbo is and continues to be, and even though its only been out at L2 for two years, we still have not seemed to find a planet (of the 200 billion we think are in THIS galaxy alone) where life forms like us could live.

This is OLD (like 10 years), but the "percentages" are still consistent. We have now found 5,000 (five thousand) "confirmed", and thousands of others are undergoing "confirmation" (is the thing we found planet or not).

"Goldilocks Zone" planets are "rare", but there still could be MILLIONS of them. Problem? We cant get to wherever we found them. Let alone, there's anybody there at all.

The "white-outlined box" below is where we could potentially live.

The green circles are also potentially habitable exoplanets, but as you move down, they get BIGGER relative to Earth's size, making them LESS suitable for life like ours (i.e, too much gravity, atmosphere, if it had one, too heavy, etc.).

Red circles and blue circles by definition are planets TOO hot or TOO cold (ie, no liquid water on the planet's surface) for life like us. A whole lotta red/blue circles.

Again, guess we really cant screw this one up ... we have NO place to go if we do. No agenda ... just a fact.

Source: Goldilocks Worlds

 

[polara71]

So please help out a dumb guy that gets through life on what appears to be common sense.

We only base these thoughts on what we think we know, correct?Are they assumptions or facts? I read all this stuff with a lot of "what if" thoughts. Questions with no one to ask or answer.
The habitable zone could be anywhere. IF there were undetectable forces we do not understand habitable could be anywhere, no?

 

[amazinblue82]

So please help out a dumb guy that gets through life on what appears to be common sense.

We only base these thoughts on what we think we know, correct?Are they assumptions or facts? I read all this stuff with a lot of "what if" thoughts. Questions with no one to ask or answer.
The habitable zone could be anywhere. IF there were undetectable forces we do not understand habitable could be anywhere, no?

Deep brother. Apologize upfront for the 'mini-rant"

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First, I'll say that I too try to rely on common sense. Underpinning EVERYTHING in this thread, there is science. Hard to put any of this in context without it.

Science happens to appeal of my sense of "common sense". That's why I like it, get some of it, and 'believe" in it. Up to a point.

Cosmology, spectrograph imaging, electromagnetic spectrum analysis, thermodynamics, chemistry, physics up the wazoo, etc.. Some of that stuff is WELL understood for hundreds of years now. Some stuff, not so much, not so long.

Example, we can tell if its 80 degrees outside, or 90 degrees, with really good accuracy. How do we tell what the temperature is somewhere, say, 100 billion miles away? Well, we can only go by what we know, and yes, by what we THINK we know how to do that measurement accurately from here.

Sometimes we are proven right. A lot of times, we still dont know stuff.

500 years ago, we thought the earth was the center of the universe and EVERYTHING, the WHOLE universe, revolved around us. We know now that's not even remotely true, and if one had said that 500 years, one might get their head chopped off by local authorities.

Another example, how do we know there is such a thing called "gravity"?

Why don't we float off the surface of the Earth? How did Gene Cernan on Apollo 17 bounce like a ping pong ball wearing a 200 lb spacesuit (plus his own 175 lb body weight) on the moon? That thing called "gravity" again - different on a place with less mass than the earth (1/6 of earth on the moon).



How does gravity make clocks on our moving GPS satellites above the earth run SLOWER than stationary clocks down here on the earth? Einstein did the math over 100 years ago (special relativity). It assumes, however, that the speed of light is the same EVERYwhere in the Universe. Is it?

All we know is this little corner we live in, but it understandably influences our thinking about other places in the universe.

Even then, there are other BIG assumptions in gravity mathematics. There must be such a thing as "gravity", even though we haven't yet found the particle theorized to be a "graviton"?

We haven't found ANY gravitons yet. Maybe, because there AREN'T any, or they are WAY different than what we think?

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LSS, what do we really know? A LOT, but not all of it is for sure,

Cuz we cant, and likely never will be able to get to, for example, one million LY's away. We conclude what we think is going on out there based on indirect measurement/evidence. Out there, it might not truly be the case.

Are there other possibilities, effects, etc., going on one million LY's away? Absolutely likely there ARE a million things "out there" we DONT know anything about, let alone stuff happening right under our noses.

H***, a "go-zillion" neutrinos -- we think -- went through me a minute ago, and will do it again a minute from now. That's what the "math" says anyway. I didnt/never will feel a thing.

Right here, on the third rock from the Sun, one of a hundred billion rocks, going around 200 billion other suns, in this galaxy alone (one of maybe a trillion galaxies like it in the Universe.

All that to say, there is a ton of merit to your observation about likelihood there are a great many things we DONT and really CANNOT, and may NEVER know.

Even though SOME scientists hate the word, there is a lotta "faith" embedded in their work They gotta believe in things they haven't seen but "know" indirectly it must be there..

The beauty, or the foolishness, or both, of humankind's nature, is that ENOUGH of us care about, and KEEP trying to find out, about how stuff works. That's how we got C-bodies, Voyagers, Webb telescopes, disease cures, Silly Putty, Cinnabons, whatever, etc.

Common sense tells me we DO know a few things.

Its also how we KNOW the Earth is NOT flat .. well, some of us anyway believe that.

 

[3175375]

It’s smelling like the Starliner is doomed:

It's Sounding Like Boeing's Starliner May Have Completely Failed

 

[amazinblue82]

my, how the mighty have fallen. sure looks like Boeing has one 'caught in the wringer".

feelin' two ways about this.

1. SpaceX, despite or my because of what some people see as his eccentricities, is one of Elon Musk's great achievements.

They way they run the company, the robust designs, the favorable economics ... doing something really challenging. soace travel is risky. pulling it off without the deep pockets of a government is astounding ( comparing to what USA spent pitting men on the moon. I wish them well and continued success.

2. boeing situation brings tears to my eyes. this used to be, and probably still is in some areas, one of humankind's greatest organizations. its sad to see them screw this spacecraft up, doors comin' off their planes in flight, etc. and probably other indignities yet to come.

those two folks Boeing stranded up there with their flawed craft will get home fine. better to hitch ride with Elon vs. something really bad happening with that boeing hooptie.

OTOH, Boeing the company? "Sure looks like plant food to me", so to speak. too bad they wasted billions apparently in this thing. great company heritage, hope they get back on track.

 

[3175375]

my, how the mighty have fallen. sure looks like Boeing has one 'caught in the wringer".

feelin' two ways about this.

1. SpaceX, despite or my because of what some people see as his eccentricities, is one of Elon Musk's great achievements.

They way they run the company, the robust designs, the favorable economics ... doing something really challenging. soace travel is risky. pulling it off without the deep pockets of a government is astounding ( comparing to what USA spent pitting men on the moon. I wish them well and continued success.

2. boeing situation brings tears to my eyes. this used to be, and probably still is in some areas, one of humankind's greatest organizations. its sad to see them screw this spacecraft up, doors comin' off their planes in flight, etc. and probably other indignities yet to come.

those two folks Boeing stranded up there with their flawed craft will get home fine. better to hitch ride with Elon vs. something really bad happening with that boeing hooptie.

OTOH, Boeing? "Sure looks like plant food to me", so to speak. too bad they wasted billions apparently. great company, hope they get back on track.

View attachment 675692

I am sorry to see Boeing falling like they have recently.
There’s two points in my lifetime where I saw bad behavior from Boing.

One, a college roommate of my dad’s who worked his entire career at McDonnell Douglas told me that he felt Boeing was going to buy MacDac well before they did and that the Long Beach, CA factory would disappear (it has).

Secondly, 40+ years ago, my drafting teacher had worked at Boeing and he had told us that Boeing hired and fired people with the wind.

Regardless, it appears that Boeing may be heading for real trouble and it’s going to be bad for all of us. They have already been eliminated from new aircraft contracts (the F-35 is it). And Boeing’s commercial aircraft business is in deep caca.

 

[amazinblue82]

I am sorry to see Boeing falling like they have recently.
There’s two points in my lifetime where I saw bad behavior from Boing.

One, a college roommate of my dad’s who worked his entire career at McDonnell Douglas told me that he felt Boeing was going to buy MacDac well before they did and that the Long Beach, CA factory would disappear (it has).

Secondly, 40+ years ago, my drafting teacher had worked at Boeing and he had told us that Boeing hired and fired people with the wind.

Regardless, it appears that Boeing may be heading for real trouble and it’s going to be bad for all of us. They have already been eliminated from new aircraft contracts (the F-35 is it). And Boeing’s commercial aircraft business is in deep caca.

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I'll move this over to "Heavy Metal" if anybody wants to keep going on this.

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I have great interest in the specifics of the Boeing/McDonnell "marriage" as a business transaction. Boeing seemingly the "numbers-driven" culture while Douglas the quality driven culture.

On paper, the new Boeing should have thrived. people say (dunno - i wasnt there) the corporate culture at acquirer Boeing emerged as the dominant one. allegedly to the combined company's detriment.

Anyway, closing Long Beach? guess they had their reasons. A lot of the most influential machines EVER made came outta there .. basically the DC-3 allowed/enabled the world's commercial aviation business to "take off" (pun intended).

Helped win WWII as the C-47.

 

[3175375]

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I'll move this over to "Heavy Metal" if anybody wants to keep going on this.

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I have great interest in the specifics of the Boeing/McDonnell "marriage" as a business transaction. Boeing seemingly the "numbers-driven" culture while Douglas the quality driven culture.

On paper, the new Boeing should have thrived. people say (dunno - i wasnt there) the corporate culture at acquirer Boeing emerged as the dominant one. allegedly to the combined company's detriment.

Anyway, closing Long Beach? guess they had their reasons. A lotta of the must influential machines EVER made came outta there .. basically the DC-3 allowed/enabled the world's commercial aviation business to "take off" (pun intended).

Helped win WWII as the C-47.

Move this part of the thread as I have additional thoughts on this as I worked in the defense industry for over 33 years. Mostly with airborne weapons/sensors/things.

 

[3175375]

Incredibly breathtaking photo of Saturn with Auroras captured by the Hubble Space Telescope.

 

[amazinblue82]

This is good news, and bad news.

The good? apparently Mars didn't lose all its water - after it lost its atmosphere (i.e. theorized it first cooled enough as its smaller than earth, such that its hot core stopped spinning, thereby losing its magnetic field, allowing the solar wind to strip away its atmosphere).

The bad? Seems its six to twelve miles deep. Ya cant get at it. Even here, on this planet let alone trying to get such deep drilling hi equipment to another planet.

source: Mars water: Liquid water reservoirs found under Martian crust

"Scientists have discovered a reservoir of liquid water on Mars - deep in the rocky outer crust of the planet. The findings come from a new analysis of data from Nasa’s Mars Insight Lander, which touched down on the planet back in 2018.

The lander carried a seismometer, which recorded four years' of vibrations - Mars quakes - from deep inside the Red Planet. Analysing those quakes - and exactly how the planet moves - revealed "seismic signals" of liquid water."

 

[amazinblue82]

Blue moon.

And a "super moon" to boot. Monday 8/19, next one. a "super blue moon". in 2037.

Nothing to do with the color, everything to do with orbits (earth vs. moon), frequency of occurence , naming converntions, etc.

Weather, interest permitting, maybe somebody can get a pic in their area?

source: The Supermoon Blue Moon

"The term "supermoon" was first coined by astrologer Richard Nolle in 1979, as "either a new or full moon that occurs when the moon is within 90% of its closest approach to Earth" according to NASA.

Full supermoons are the biggest and brightest full moons of the year, appearing approximately 30% brighter and 14% larger than usual.

There are two types of "Blue Moon," but neither has anything to do with the color.

A seasonal Blue Moon refers to the third full moon in a season that has four full moons. This is the traditional definition of a Blue Moon and the type we will see rise on Aug. 19. "

 

[Turboomni]

Planet 9 Exists! New Evidence Confirms Its Presence Beyond Neptune​

NASASpaceNews

 

[amazinblue82]

Planet 9 Exists! New Evidence Confirms Its Presence Beyond Neptune​

NASASpaceNews

artist's conception, Planet Nine with our Sun and eight planets in the far distance.

if one grew up in between the 1930's to being taught about the solar system before early 2000's, there WERE nine planets. Pluto used to be a planet until spacekids got together in 2006 and decided it was NOT.

They had their reasons I guess, but anyway, that news dropped us to eight planets in this solar system..

I trust the math .. and a big planet, five times more massive than earth but way too dark to see (nothing shining on it cuz it far from any sun) .. is prbably out there. Even Jimbo Webb can see it though.

But its throwing stuff around, that we CAN see, with its gravity. They'll eventually get some sorta look at it one day.

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This Plant Nine - or Planet "X" talk, however, has been around siince we discovered Neptune in the 1850's. Then we found Pluto in 1930, but even then it was TOO SMALL, to have been causing gravitational disturbances that we still see.

One can veg out on tons of stuff our there to brush up/get smart on this topic.

I happen to believe in the math. Newtonian mechanics is friggin' brilliant, and while we cant "see" gravity, we UNdoubtedly know its effects when we see them. Stuff moves, almost by magic/invisibly being affected by something with MASS ... even if we cant see that thing.

heck, that's how they found Pluto nearly 100 years ago. Neptune was moving funny ("wiggling" in its orbit), and this "kid" Clyde_Tombaugh, an amateur with no formal education, found something else, small but catching sunlight, moving funny.

They (the professors/smartie pants) did the math, and this second thing Tombaugh found (turned out to be Pluto) was causing big a** Neptune (with is over 20 times BIGGER than Pluto, and a billion miles closer to the Sun) to "wiggle".

Same trick used countless times. Example, they found the black hole on the center of the Milky Way that way .. they couldn't see it yet as that work came later by some other guys ... but they saw these stars (yes, BIG stars too, some bigger than our sun), orbiting really fast and in these crazy ellipses, did the Newton gravity math, and figured something MASSIVE - but was to us invisible at the time - was causing that crazy star movement.

Those space kids eventually won Nobel Prizes for that gravity work. I also think the guys that photographed the black hole did or will get a Nobel for their photography work (they basically used the WHOLE earth as a radio camera).

https://www.livescience.com/milky-way-black-hole-merges-binary-stars.html, https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/voyager-1-and-2-still-alive-38-000-mph.29301/post-1088318

 

[Fratzog]

I happen to believe in the math. Newtonian mechanics is friggin' brilliant, and while we cant "see" gravity, we UNdoubtedly know its effects when we see them. Stuff moves, almost by magic/invisibly being affected by something with MASS ... even if we cant see that thing.

It is exactly these effects that are being used to design new telescopes that ironically don't require any new technology but rather the application of well established existing science in new and creative ways. Case in point, interferometers. This technology has been employed with some success by the earth based Andean telescopes in the last few decades but the discussion is now turning to deployment in space with the greatest prospects being moon based interferometers due to the moon's inherent stability. The insane potential is to discern detail on rocky earth sized exoplanets at a continental scale This YT video provides a good layman's overview of the topic.

 

[amazinblue82]

It is exactly these effects that are being used to design new telescopes that ironically don't require any new technology but rather the application of well established existing science in new and creative ways. Case in point, interferometers. This technology has been employed with some success by the earth based Andean telescopes in the last few decades but the discussion is now turning to deployment in space with the greatest prospects being moon based interferometers due to the moon's inherent stability. The insane potential is to discern detail on rocky earth sized exoplanets at a continental scale This YT video provides a good layman's overview of the topic.

This is how the space kids took an image of the black hole (26,000 LY away from us, or 26,000 times 6 trillion miles) at center of Milky Way - the Event Horizon telescope.

Eight separate radio telescopes spaced around the earth, synchronized viewing of the same spot, essentially creating a telescope "mirror" that's the size of the WHOLE earth.

A big mirror can collect more light - e.g., see further/clearer - than a smaller mirror. They "combined" the light collected by all eight into ONE image.

Vid talks about the idea, and to your point, for a lot less than $10 billion we spent on Jimbo Webb, we could try some interferometer technologies and effectively create a "mirror' that's the size of the distance between the various telescopes, presumably few hundred thousand miles across (e.g., instruments on moon and earth).

That thing might be able to image the surface of a exo-planet light years away.

Man, that would be something.

Observatories - Black Hole Cam

 

[amazinblue82]

Galactic collision captured by Webb.

Nothing unusual about the event. An elliptical crashing into a spiral, leaving the spiral with "smiley face". Right to left, the elliptical (white-ish colors) went tearing across the top of the spiral.

Despite nearly 500 million stars combined, very unlikely anything in either galaxy hit anything in the other, but their respective gravitational effects on each other is visible.

This event happened 100's of millions of years ago. The elliptical could be on its gravitational "rebound" -- snapping back a bit the way it came, making its second pass through the spiral.

It's all 465 million LY (i.e., 465,000,000 times 6,000,000,000,000 miles) away, so we see it today as it looked 465 million years ago. Mind-bending distance and time -- as it surely looks much dfferent "today". We'll likely NEVER know that answer.

Anyway, my grandkiddies, ages 4 and 2, don't really know what they are looking at obviously, but they like (like their mom and aunt at their age) looking at "gax-xies" with "gam-pah"

source: NASA’s Webb Provides Another Look Into Galactic Collisions

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Below, roughly same view with Hubble. In IR, and with better eyesight in general, Webb just showin' off

Hubble Captures ARP 107

 

[Turboomni]

Trying to stretch it's operation into the 2030's

 

[Fratzog]

As long as I've been a casual observer of space topics I've assumed the science around the moon's formation was "settled" on the basis scientific consensus that the Moon formed from debris after a collision on the young Earth. I just became aware of this competing theory which sounds equally plausible. I guess we will gather more data with the forthcoming moon exploration.

Young Earth May Have Captured Moon from Space, Research Suggests | Sci.News

The Moon may have been captured during a close encounter between a young Earth and a terrestrial binary (a system of the Moon and another rocky object), according to a new paper published in the Planetary Science Journal.

www.sci.news

 

[amazinblue82]

As long as I've been a casual observer of space topics I've assumed the science around the moon's formation was "settled" on the basis scientific consensus that the Moon formed from debris after a collision on the young Earth. I just became aware of this competing theory which sounds equally plausible. I guess we will gather more data with the forthcoming moon exploration.

http://[URL]https://www.sci.news/space/young-earth-moon-capture-13306.html

[/URL]

you're right. this one is very plausible too. thanks

i like the colliding protoplanet theory - "Theia and a bigger body that would become earth" - story best. The moon ("Theia") is debris left over it, and the earth, when they collided.

Both bodies' crust is composed of similar -- not exactly same - materials and have other chemistry is common.

Surprise! Earth and the moon aren't made of exactly the same stuff.

lotta geology says this is the most likely to me, all things considered, given assumed conditions in the early solar system 4 billion years ago ,(long before we got here).

source: Tracing Theia: Scientists Found Remains of “Buried Planet” Inside Earth - Orbital Today