polara71
Old Man with a Hat
go for it...
What would you guys do?
- Thread starter Mr onetwo
- Start date
I was just over on the dock and it appears that the car was sold last August to "stitcherbob" due to Steve being very ill. "Polaraco" has not posted in that forum since....does anyone know what happened to him?
I wouldn't do it to a nice original... I would do it in a heart beat to anything else that needed a serious amount of driveline help. I am cheap, very cheap.... the best way to do this in my experience is to find a running, driving donor. That way you can fully evaluate the driveline. Then its a simple matter of making the driveline fit (not always simple). Preserve all harnesses and modules from the donor (serious, careful disassembly of the donor). Late models usually have big "main connectors" for fast driveline installation, so you shouldn't have to touch a single wire on the engine side of that connector. Lay out your modules that you have to keep... depends on what year if there are other VIN coded modules in the security system, but if they are there you will need to keep them (this started mid 90s). Mount the modules that were interior back into a heat and weather protected area (they probably weren't designed for underhood exposure)... decide where you want them and make sure you account for a path for wiring. The factory harnesses can be carefully separated and extended to make everything fit nicely without any real talent, but use great care and proper solder/heat shrink connections because some of those wires may only have 3 strands of copper in the insulation. If your fuel supply parts are purchased before this all happens you can easily retrofit the tank and test run on the donor so all that is needed is to find safe locations in the new engine bay (away from exhaust) and it will be much easier to run new steel fuel lines before you install the driveline. Be careful to install relays level... it affects operation of some of them. Cooling system can be a combination of parts between the new and old, but the donor system was designed for the engine. With a good functioning donor, no rebuilding is required... but make sure everything is not leaking because this is the easiest time to reseal. The accessory drive from the donor can stay, A/C compressor will work with a little hose modification (any decent A/C shop should be able to make a hybrid hose from the original/donor ends), Alternator is Computer controlled... keep the donor, P/S pump should work with existing steering box (hybrid hose again).
The biggest job hurdles will be if you can use the original oil pan configuration (try really hard or you will need a new oil pump pickup tube) and if the transmission tunnel will need to be cut and expanded. Mount the driveline as level as you can... but the most critical issue will be that it is close to level with the rear axle yoke. Higher is fine, but if the transmission output shaft is uphill you will need to modify the mount to get proper driveline angles. Save both driveshafts and provide them to your driveline shop so they can reuse the yokes, if necessary. Let them have the whole car so the shaft is made correct length and they will make the best possible shaft (usually very cheap) and they will supply new u-joints. Throttle cable will be a bit custom, try to see if you can reuse the donor assembly, but you may need to get a bit custom here. There are always a number of small details that need parts/hardware to solve during this kind of job... make sure you have a way to secure the car while going on a parts run. This could be done in about 20 hours with professional facilities at your disposal... not counting part runs. It will be harder and longer without a lift or air tools or any resealing. Shop labor pricing to do it for you will be much more than 20 hours, but a good shop would also make sure it was working and drivable at pickup. I have seen shops install the driveline bare (no wiring or driveshaft work) and its always a disaster. Put it together and run it before you change the rear gears, but make note of the donor's ratio... you may find you like what you have. After your final tire selection is installed if you want more torque, lower gears (higher number) will outdo speed equipment every time, but at the expense of fuel economy and higher cruising RPMs. As to tuning, many Mopar computers can easily be corrected for tire size... it may take a little math and trial and error to match weight and final drive ratio to the load correction in the PCM, but doable without an aftermarket tuning system.
Sorry for the book, but if you got this far I guess you at least read it. A well planned swap like this is quick, cheap and easy. I know there are several issues I haven't thought through because I have no specific vehicles to research (like ignition switch compatibility), but once you are in the planning stage with a suitable donor vehicle acquired... easy enough to research all you need.
polara71 and comando1... I was overdue...
The biggest job hurdles will be if you can use the original oil pan configuration (try really hard or you will need a new oil pump pickup tube) and if the transmission tunnel will need to be cut and expanded. Mount the driveline as level as you can... but the most critical issue will be that it is close to level with the rear axle yoke. Higher is fine, but if the transmission output shaft is uphill you will need to modify the mount to get proper driveline angles. Save both driveshafts and provide them to your driveline shop so they can reuse the yokes, if necessary. Let them have the whole car so the shaft is made correct length and they will make the best possible shaft (usually very cheap) and they will supply new u-joints. Throttle cable will be a bit custom, try to see if you can reuse the donor assembly, but you may need to get a bit custom here. There are always a number of small details that need parts/hardware to solve during this kind of job... make sure you have a way to secure the car while going on a parts run. This could be done in about 20 hours with professional facilities at your disposal... not counting part runs. It will be harder and longer without a lift or air tools or any resealing. Shop labor pricing to do it for you will be much more than 20 hours, but a good shop would also make sure it was working and drivable at pickup. I have seen shops install the driveline bare (no wiring or driveshaft work) and its always a disaster. Put it together and run it before you change the rear gears, but make note of the donor's ratio... you may find you like what you have. After your final tire selection is installed if you want more torque, lower gears (higher number) will outdo speed equipment every time, but at the expense of fuel economy and higher cruising RPMs. As to tuning, many Mopar computers can easily be corrected for tire size... it may take a little math and trial and error to match weight and final drive ratio to the load correction in the PCM, but doable without an aftermarket tuning system.
Sorry for the book, but if you got this far I guess you at least read it. A well planned swap like this is quick, cheap and easy. I know there are several issues I haven't thought through because I have no specific vehicles to research (like ignition switch compatibility), but once you are in the planning stage with a suitable donor vehicle acquired... easy enough to research all you need.
polara71 and comando1... I was overdue...
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I understand. No problem....
The safety valve needs to pop every once in a while. AMHIK
Thanks cantflip! I already have the motor and trans, so I don't see buying another donor. I have to do some research on the oil pan issue and the tranny will not fit without cutting the floor. I don't need A/C so that makes things easier. I haven't done any research on cheap aftermarket controllers, but there is plenty of winter days left to read up. There is no tuning for pre-OBD2 mopar vehicles at all....can't even scan them. I may try to find a complete harness/ECM from a later truck.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
You need a car pan and pick up for a 360. I would keep the a/c and the serpentine belt
livininharrow
Senior Member
very nice novel you wrote us. thank you.
300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
The dealer tools would scan and possibly be able to change the tire correction. The era's aftermarket tools will scan them, but probably wont be able to make correction change. IDK if any tuning company still supports these vehicles... but there was a time...
If you go later model with the same engine you are probably ok except you wont have any updated sensors used with the newer software. The main reason I encourage a complete donor is you can shake it down and prove its running abilities immediately before the swap. A stored engine is probably ok if it was stored well... but you lose all of the "it just worked yesterday" factor. If you are going for the later pcm and harness... use pcm schematics to pin by pin match what the 2 engines have different... it could change your mind. Try your local library for schematics, they are connected to other libraries and get free access to some pay per use information. It may take a while, but you could get info that way for free.
I already have a complete set of FSM's and diagnostic books for 1993 D-series,1998 Daks and 2001 Ram 1500, so I have plenty of reading material on hand. Like you cantflip, I am cheap, out of necessity, as I have no money. However, necessity is the mother of invention, and I think I can make this all work for cheap money.Dakota's are really worthless around here and can be had for a song.A '98 2wd V8 Dak would be a perfect donor.
MJF
Member
Any progress? Every now and then, I've been looking how cheap 90s Jeeps with 318:s are. I'm really interested of swapping one in my T&C. How it performs compared to smog 440, I bet mileage would be a little better 
65sporty
Old Man with a Hat
Sounds like a great swap, have you started? Pic's and progress updates are a must
Landyacht
Active Member
I'm looking for a cheaper alternative than the Gear Vendors overdrive for my Newport with a big block. Where can you find these bell housing adapters.
Whole different can of worms... Much, much research before investing is my opinion. Read my novelette above to see some of why I recommended an entire driveline, harness and computer swap from a functioning car. I would bet you don't drive enough highway miles to recoup the investment. I would just love her for what she is.
MJF
Member
Anything new yet? I have no personal experience of sb magnums. I have been told that 360 has much better performance? Looking at numbers, there is not much difference other than 360 has more torque, performance figures has not much difference. And 318 has better mileage.
celticwarlock
Active Member
My vans have the SB Magnum in them (5.9), and this motor has proven to be exceedingly durable (in my experience). It also has plenty of grunt, even in an 8,000 lb. van. C-bodies are about half that weight (within a few hundred pounds), so I'll bet they'd perform quite respectably in a large Mopar. They are also lighter than big blocks, so there is a bit of weight savings there. I don't know if I will ever wind up building one, but I'd sure like to drive one.
MJF
Member
I just bought 318 magnum from Sweden, we'll see if (when) it founds a new home from my wagon.
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