A/C Conversion from R12 to 134A Question

AndyFranklin

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Does any one know of a conversion kit for a 68 Imperial ? Or even a shop in the Midwest or Southeast that performs such a conversion ?

Best Regards and Thanks,

Andy
 
Most of the conversion kits I've seen were universal. New-size/larger connection caps to add or adjust the gas amount with. A different gauge set needed, as a result, so no intermixing of the two gasses.

Otherwise, unless the newer oils will mix with the R12 oils and not congeal in the presence of R134a, you'll need to evacuate all of the existing oil from the system. Probably will need a new receiver/drier, too. IF the new R134a might seep from the rubber hoses and o-rings, they'll need to be replaced with newer R-134a-compatible items, too.

Others might have more comments for these conversions, too.

CBODY67
 
R-134a is in the process of being phased out for better alternatives. This was never a very good conversion for older piston compressors like the RV2 that is in your vehicle. The R-134a is a less dense gas that does not circulate the oil well especially if the system is low on charge. The compressor starves for oil and burns out. Modern R-12 replacements such as Duracool/R-12a are a better choice. R-12a is blend of Butane and Propane with a flame retardant added. This gas mimics R-12 in performance without the bother of having to flush the system of the old refrigerant oil as R-12a will not cause the oil to gel up like R-134a, it can also be mixed with R-12 if the system is still partially charged. If the system has been disassembled and left exposed to the atmosphere, then the filter dryer will need to be replaced. The condenser and evaporator will need to be flushed to remove any contaminated oil. It is a good idea to flush the components to remove and residue and removing all of the old oil gives a good starting point for recharging the system with the proper amount of oil.

Dave
 
R-12a is blend of Butane and Propane with a flame retardant added.
I had read a little about R-12a, but didn't know it has a fire retardant added. I had wondered about the flammability.

Can you go from 134a to r-12a?? I have 134a with a Sanden clone rotary compressor.
 
I had read a little about R-12a, but didn't know it has a fire retardant added. I had wondered about the flammability.

Can you go from 134a to r-12a?? I have 134a with a Sanden clone rotary compressor.
It is illegal in Canada to mix refrigerants. That having been said, if you have a Sanden system with R134a it would probably be better to stay with that refrigerant for as long as you can get it. The marketing data for R-12a claims that it should be compatible with R-134a. I am a firm believer in not mixing refrigerants because if there are compatibility issues, there is a good chance that the whole system might get trashed. I have used the R-12a in R-12 systems without issues. I have not been brave enough to try it with R-134a. Walmart still sells the small cans of R-134a as do most auto parts, buy yourself a few cans and call it good. The 30 lb cylinders were banned for sale to the public 3-4 years ago by the EPA. Seems after telling every one to use it for 25 years or more they figured out that R-134a is a persistent green house gas that does not break down readily in the atmosphere. The trend now is to R-12a because the oxygen in the atmosphere breaks down the propane/butane mix by oxidation.

Dave
 
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I've seen Scotty Kilmer (YouTube) use a can of R-52 to top off a later-model Honda on his channel. As an alternative to R-1234yf. I have no knowledge about that gas, just that I saw him do that one day.
 
Does any one know of a conversion kit for a 68 Imperial ? Or even a shop in the Midwest or Southeast that performs such a conversion ?

Best Regards and Thanks,

Andy
tH
Does any one know of a conversion kit for a 68 Imperial ? Or even a shop in the Midwest or Southeast that performs such a conversion ?

Best Regards and Thanks,

Andy
Thank you all for your thoughts. Does anyone know where I can purchase the conversion kit ?
Best Regards,
Andy
 
Seems that almost EVERY auto supply had the add-on cap kit. Should be no reason to go to Amazon or eBay, FWIW.
 
R-134a is in the process of being phased out for better alternatives
Always found it amusing how every time Dupont's patents on a refrigerant are about to expire, it's suddenly discovered to be too damaging to the ozone layer or contributing to the greenhouse effect and hey look at that they just so conveniently have this new refrigerant that claims to be much better than the current one!

I had wondered about the flammability
In Australia one company sells HC-12/Duracool as Hychill. Works great. My R12 system had been retrofitted to R134a, it was acceptable. Regassed it myself with Hychill, and the air coming out of the vents was freezing within five mins. Once while my dad was riding shotgun, he turned off the AC after about 10 mins of it on because it got too cold for him...in the middle of summer...at least 105°F when it happened, I still remember it like yesterday lol.
Unfortunately for me, a drunk driver crashed into me head on. Contrary to the scare campaigns our local HVAC organisation had run in an attempt to stop DIYers from getting easy and cheap access to DIYing things (three guesses who sponsors them), or people who baulk at using 300 grams of flammable gas in a vehicle that already holds 90 litres of flammable petrol...there was no fiery explosion. No great balls of fire. I didn't even think about the A/C system until I looked at the front end saw how the condenser got obliterated in the crash; the refrigerant had all vented to atmosphere.

Ever since regassing with Hychill/HC-12 though I'm sold. I tell as many people about it as I can. It never gets old seeing their reactions when the AC is insanely cold despite us being in stop-start traffic in the middle of summer. It's cheap, it's far more efficient than R134a (I daresay it's just as good as, if not better than, R12), it runs at lower pressures so your compressor and seals last longer, and the molecule is bigger than both R12 and R134a so it leaks out even slower than either refrigerant, if at all. Oh, and you also use about 30-33% of whatever R12 weight your system originally took. For R134a systems it's about 35-40%.
 
Always found it amusing how every time Dupont's patents on a refrigerant are about to expire, it's suddenly discovered to be too damaging to the ozone layer or contributing to the greenhouse effect and hey look at that they just so conveniently have this new refrigerant that claims to be much better than the current one!


In Australia one company sells HC-12/Duracool as Hychill. Works great. My R12 system had been retrofitted to R134a, it was acceptable. Regassed it myself with Hychill, and the air coming out of the vents was freezing within five mins. Once while my dad was riding shotgun, he turned off the AC after about 10 mins of it on because it got too cold for him...in the middle of summer...at least 105°F when it happened, I still remember it like yesterday lol.
Unfortunately for me, a drunk driver crashed into me head on. Contrary to the scare campaigns our local HVAC organisation had run in an attempt to stop DIYers from getting easy and cheap access to DIYing things (three guesses who sponsors them), or people who baulk at using 300 grams of flammable gas in a vehicle that already holds 90 litres of flammable petrol...there was no fiery explosion. No great balls of fire. I didn't even think about the A/C system until I looked at the front end saw how the condenser got obliterated in the crash; the refrigerant had all vented to atmosphere.

Ever since regassing with Hychill/HC-12 though I'm sold. I tell as many people about it as I can. It never gets old seeing their reactions when the AC is insanely cold despite us being in stop-start traffic in the middle of summer. It's cheap, it's far more efficient than R134a (I daresay it's just as good as, if not better than, R12), it runs at lower pressures so your compressor and seals last longer, and the molecule is bigger than both R12 and R134a so it leaks out even slower than either refrigerant, if at all. Oh, and you also use about 30-33% of whatever R12 weight your system originally took. For R134a systems it's about 35-40%.
This sounded interesting, so I looked around a little and couldn't find any being sold. Then I just googled "HC-12 Duracool" and the Wikipedia page popped up. HC-12a - Wikipedia and in that; "As it is flammable, it is illegal for use as an R-12 replacement in the United States. Its use in public transport vehicles has also been illegal in the United States since 1990."

people who baulk at using 300 grams of flammable gas in a vehicle that already holds 90 litres of flammable petrol

I'm not overly concerned about the flammability as we are in agreement about this. It's still something to consider though especially when handling and charging.
 
Oh yeah absolutely, but I feel like the kind of person that needs to be told to not light up a cigarette when at the gas station is probably not going to fare any better regassing their AC with HC refrigerants
 
When the whole "conversation" about R-12 being harmful to the ozone layer, I always wondered how something in a closed system could harm anything? Only when it leaked out. Supposedly, as the 16 ounce cans were the main way it was sold, the crimp seals on the cans did seep gas out over time, which is how the R-12 "escaped". Many shops bought R-12 in a welding gas-type container, using good valving to keep it from leaking. Later, the 30 pound cans became more prevalent in use. The tech had to make sure the valve was fully closed at the end of each charging session or . . . . $$$$$$ floating in the air.

There were conversations about DuPont's patents running out, then, too. BUT as the USA was the only country to basically outlaw R-12 production, Mexico did not, so smuggling across the borders was known to happen. One GREAT vehicle would have been the early CNG OEM pickups from Ford and GM, with three CNG containers placed cross-ways in the rear frame, where the spare tire used to be. Not sure if that happened, but it looked like it could, to me. There were comments (without evidence) that Mexican R-12 could corrode the system internally, as it was of lesser quality.

It was during these times, when smuggling-in R12 was in the same category as smuggling-in AR-15 style assault weapons (while that was criminalized in a 10-year period, due to gun violence. Yep, it happened and was federal law), that some "alternatives" to R-12 were played with. Including butane. Many people living "in the country" had butane tanks for their homes, so it was readily available. I don't know that any crash tests were done, but it could be imagined to be a big fire ball rather than not. That probably led the EPA to regulate sales of "drop-in" R-12 alternatives, of which there were a few. Some hybrids were closer to R-12 than R-134a, as I recall.

Seems like I recall some comments about R-12 also being flammable? With a "No Smoking" near it, too. Probably not as flammable and "explosive" as butane, though. As I was in the dealership parts biz, I followed all of these things and how the OEMs transitioned through them. I had a good friend who worked for an aftermarket a/c supplier, who was knowledgeable of the initial R-134a research AND how they got past the "lesser cooling" situation of R-134a. Larger and more-efficient condensers usually was the OEM fix. BTAIM

One radio program I listened to, back then, the host testified before a government panel. He stated that if R-12 was globally banned, people in poor countries would die. That got everybody's attention! Then he explained that older refrigeration equipment ended up being in these countries, after it was "old and replaced" in the USA, to keep medicines cold. Another unknown fact. So a global ban on R-12 did not happen. So R-12 is still around, but evolved out of being the main refrigerant used.

R-134a was supposed to be "the best", but we how have r-1234yf as its replacement. Takes less but is insanely expensive, by comparison. Less harm to the ozone layer, but by less of a degree than R-134a is, it seems. Then Scotty Kilmer used some less-expensive R-52 to top off the a/c system in a Honda, in one of his YT videos! The plot thickens!

AND . . . the home a/c system gas has been going through changes too! Only thing is that each of these gas phase-outs means NEW EQUIPMENT, it seems! We thought the automotive a/c stuff was crazy!!!

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
 
how they got past the "lesser cooling" situation of R-134a. Larger and more-efficient condensers usually was the OEM fix
Yep, systems designed for R134a from the get-go are sufficient given that they were designed as such. The issue is retrofitting R12 systems, which is where HC-12 shines. Some people use propane straight out of a bbq gas tank, and while it does work, it's really not recommended because a) it's not refrigerant grade and has contaminants in it that can taint the innards of the system, and b) straight propane runs at significantly higher pressures than even R134a which already runs at roughly 10% higher pressure than R12. Hychill is a 60/40 mix of propane and isobutane, not sure what Duracool or the US hydrocarbon refrigerants are, but I'd imagine it'd be a similar ratio. I also forgot to mention that HC refrigerants are fully compatible with whatever oil is currently in your system, it's just a straight drop-in replacement.
 
I run R12 in my stuff. It works. Drove my Charger 500 to work today in 90 degree heat and it was blowing under 40 degrees out of the vents. Same with the (now sold) Valiant. Need to get the Air working on the L and the WSP Polara next.
 
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