Are LED headlights a worthwhile upgrade?

[Henrius]

You got to admit, one thing that is an improvement with new cars is the power of the headlights. I feel like I am driving blind when driving my classic cars at night.

Ran across a company called Headlight Experts. The sell glass light shells that look like OEM, but have modern LED healights inside. Not cheap! $199 for ONE high and low beam pair. So converting right and left would cost $400!

I am not talking about HIDs (which require a lot more power), but LEDs.

Has anyone tried these? Are they a worthwhile upgrade?

 

[Davea Lux]

If your vehicle has headlight doors, they will not operate with the LED lamps. The circuit that closes the doors when the lights are turned off uses the filaments of the headlights as a ground to close the relay and the doors. For that kind of money, I personally would not make the upgrade. You might want to check the headlight adjustment to see of you can improve the performance. These cars were famous for corroded connections that cause the lights to be dim over time, so check the ground and other connections and clean as necessary.

Dave

 

[Henrius]

If your vehicle has headlight doors, they will not operate with the LED lamps. The circuit that closes the doors when the lights are turned off uses the filaments of the headlights as a ground to close the relay and the doors. For that kind of money, I personally would not make the upgrade. You might want to check the headlight adjustment to see of you can improve the performance. These cars were famous for corroded connections that cause the lights to be dim over time, so check the ground and other connections and clean as necessary.

Dave

Thanks. I will check the contacts. My Fury and Newport do not have concealed headlights. Might start first trying them on my Ford Pinto, which will be cheaper, since it does not have dual headlights.

 

[edbods]

Do you have a headlight relay harness? Probably one of the first upgrades you should ever do on any car (aside from the bulkhead power feed bypass for our mopars); old car headlights were worse than rubbish because they ran all their power through the the firewall, into the headlight switch, then back out and to the lights. And now our cars are more than half a century old, the poor harness has to cope, even worse if you swap out the bulbs for halogens which draw even more power. LEDs mask it because of their significantly higher efficiency, however, they still draw as much power as they can through the harness. But just a relay harness alone makes a huge difference - even regular sealed beam lamps will become much brighter.
I got me a cheap set of H4 and H1 semi-sealed conversion housings. They have glass lenses so they'll never ever fade from UV exposure, and they take H4 bulbs, with H1s for the high beams. Best of both worlds I reckon - if bulb or housing breaks, only one or the other needs to be replaced, instead of both as an assembly. And replacements with glass lenses are cheap and readily available at any retail auto store. Bulbs being halogen are also brighter than older sealed beams (even with the aforementioned relay harness). This also opens up the path to LED retrofits, but if you do this, make sure you get lamps where the diodes match the exact position as the original halogen filaments - if they don't you will blind (and piss off) everyone in front of you, and you'll also wonder why your lights hardly light up the road.

 

[Henrius]

Do you have a headlight relay harness? Probably one of the first upgrades you should ever do on any car (aside from the bulkhead power feed bypass for our mopars); old car headlights were worse than rubbish because they ran all their power through the the firewall, into the headlight switch, then back out and to the lights. And now our cars are more than half a century old, the poor harness has to cope, even worse if you swap out the bulbs for halogens which draw even more power. LEDs mask it because of their significantly higher efficiency, however, they still draw as much power as they can through the harness. But just a relay harness alone makes a huge difference - even regular sealed beam lamps will become much brighter.
I got me a cheap set of H4 and H1 semi-sealed conversion housings. They have glass lenses so they'll never ever fade from UV exposure, and they take H4 bulbs, with H1s for the high beams. Best of both worlds I reckon - if bulb or housing breaks, only one or the other needs to be replaced, instead of both as an assembly. And replacements with glass lenses are cheap and readily available at any retail auto store. Bulbs being halogen are also brighter than older sealed beams (even with the aforementioned relay harness). This also opens up the path to LED retrofits, but if you do this, make sure you get lamps where the diodes match the exact position as the original halogen filaments - if they don't you will blind (and piss off) everyone in front of you, and you'll also wonder why your lights hardly light up the road.

Thanks. Not sure I understand why lights would blind everyone else but hardly light up the road for me. You talking about aim?

Funny that all new cars have headlight relays, and like you said, my Newport headlight wiring connector is about burned to a crisp. Who makes a headlight relay assembly with wiring instructions? Never heard of this upgrade. Yes, I switched to halogens a long time ago which probably helped fry the wiring and connector.

 

[edbods]

Not necessarily aim, but the beam pattern - the reflector is shaped precisely to aim the light exactly the way it should:

The shape is designed around the exact locations of the halogen filaments - if the diodes on the LEDs do not match up the beam pattern will be thrown completely off. Notice in the below pics how the diodes (the little squares) are placed in such a way to replicate the position of a typical halogen bulb's filaments, it even has the glare shield as well in this example:

People will often buy the cheapest aliexpress special (even though aliexpress also has actually decent LED bulbs out there) which just has diodes covering the entire bulb and then wonder why everyone is constantly flashing their high beams at them.
Octane Lighting make one, but you can also make your own which may be better to do if you already have the tools to do so; I got their 4-light harness and while it works, the terminal crimping left something to be desired - there were individual strands of copper filament here and there that weren't crimped down, which would increase resistance and while it still works, maybe I got one made on Friday at 4 PM or something...
And since it was also a universal kit, the wiring may be too short depending on your application. For my 67 Fury, some of the wires were cutting it close with how comfortable I was letting them stretch. There are lots of guides and diagrams online on how to do it yourself, it's pretty straightforward, but can be time-consuming if you're trying to do a proper job.

Funny that all new cars have headlight relays

Relays make perfect sense - they are simply electrically operated switches. Use a small amount of signal current, to control a circuit that carries much larger current. Perfect for easing the strain on our old wiring harnesses. I think the 70s-80s was when manufacturers realised that it wasn't a good idea to run 55-60 watts of power up into the dash and back out so they really started doing headlights properly. It'd be cheaper to just do it once, do it right, than to pay for class action lawsuits around cars burning down.

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Plug-in headlight relay kits are available, cheap ones and decent quality versions. Also fairly easy to build them DYI if possessing some basic electrical skills. The OE headlight wiring was/is woefully inadequate even for the original sealed beams. Be sure to draw relay secondary power from the alternator, not the battery if still running an original ammeter.

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks. Not sure I understand why lights would blind everyone else but hardly light up the road for me. You talking about aim?

Aim and BEAM PATTERN. The ONLY aftermarket LED headlight I've seen with a decent beam pattern is the Holley Retrobrights. Otherwise, check out www.danielsternlighting.com for better headlight solutions. European E-code light housings with good bulbs (all of which are about 55-65 Watts in power) work light up the highway better than the USA sealed-beam lights ever did. Adding the relays to run the lights with (as others in here have done) makes things brighter too.

LEDs are not the answer for "better" light. There are some LED headlights out there with totally crappy beam patterns, from what I've seen on the several YouTube videos from headlight assy/bulb purveyors.

The E-code and later sealed beams have a sharp upper cut-off of the light so that it does not get into the eyes and mirrors of people/cars in front of you. With a slight "flare" to the right side to help with reading street signs. Aim those lights to be horizontal to the road surface, then tweak the adjustment screws to move the beam a bit downward from there. There are also YouTube videos on how to use a wall to do similar things, but you'll need a floor surface that is about 50' long and completely, verifiably flat.

Modern cars use LEDs as they take less juice to run. Which relates to the load the alternator places on the engine to run it. Which relates to EPA fuel economy issues. THAT is the real reason modern vehicles CAN have LED lights in them. Plus their smaller size and less weight, which still relates to the EPA fuel economy issues.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Hella E-code (left) pattern comparison to Holley Retrobright (right)-lowbeam-4 lamp system

highbeams

Current draw comparison to the Retrobrights

 

[edbods]

Did you whip up that table yourself? Neat! Wonder how much aircraft landing lights draw...hehe

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Did you whip up that table yourself? Neat! Wonder how much aircraft landing lights draw...hehe

Yea, I did those measurements a while back as part of a discussion/claim about LED headlights not drawing enough current to warrant the use of relays, that the stock 16ga 50+yearold wiring/components would be sufficient. If not clear by those numbers, strongly disagree.

 

[Henrius]

Thanks for that table. I am glad I started this post, as it seems the Holley Retrolights are the way to go. I would not have expected that LEDs draw as much current as the incandescents! So I will fit the LEDs first, and very soon add the relays to reduce current to the headlight switch. But what color temperature for the headlights do you prefer?

Always wondered why we had to replace headlight switches on our old cars, and never on our new cars. Now I know that relays are the reason. It is worth installing relays just to end replacing headlight switches forever. I always hated that knuckle-scraping job!

Incredible how many way we can make our old cars better than new. At some point I want to convert my 72 Newport to Holley Sniper FI as well. Eryone says there is a big difference in drivability, and a little increase in fuel economy as well.

 

[CBODY67]

All of the aftermarket (at least) LED bulbs have a cooling fan on their backside. LEDs themselves are "low draw", for the light section, but the cooling fans also take juice to run. All OEM sealed beams also generate heat at the wiring connectors on the bulbs, even the turn signal bulbs . . . which convection cool. Check the connectors with an IR Heat Gun and you'll be surprised!

Here's a side issue for "bright" lights at night. As we get older, the issue of "high contrast light situations" can become a factor in on-coming drivers being "blinded by the light". Plus the "halo effect" of glaucoma. While the person behind the light might like all of the new things they can see with their new, brighter lights, but the person(s) seeing them from the front side CAN have issues seeing the side of the road, by observation and experience. MUCH worse than what the old advice of "look to the rh side of the road" when somebody would not dim their high-beams at night. Being in places with little ambient light can make things worse. Which is probably why most of the newer projector beam OEM lights seem to be aimed "too low" compared to Euro-code beams. As the E-code lights put more light down the road at night, rather than all within a 50'foot (seemingly) distance from the front bumper (which seems to make people more comfortable at night, but is woefully lacking for real 70mph night driving).

Just some thoughts and observations, over the years. YMMV
CBODY67

CBODY67

 

[edbods]

Incredible how many way we can make our old cars better than new

It's great isn't it. It's this kind of restomodding I like - genuine improvements that still retain the overall characteristics of the car. Not just slapping on 20 inch wheels and rubber band tires and coilovers then calling it a day like you see a lot of youtubers do. With what we have now, it's easier than ever to restore old cars to the point that you can daily them without a second thought.
Me personally, I've installed selective yellow bulbs. They're very comfy to look at.
It's really up to you at the end of the day, but what I will say is don't go with the blue ones or ones with a colour temperature above 6000K; the blue wrecks night vision and is more than likely the reason for the increasing hate against blinding headlights in recent years. Personally if it were up to me, any vehicle with higher than 5000K for their low beams would have 10x higher registration fees.

For the high beams, you can also get pretty cheap aircraft landing lights that'll fit right in and throw out a huge amount of light, but they run at 100 or 150W so your wiring absolutely needs to be up to scratch. Plus, it's not good to leave them on while stationary - they make a LOT of heat.
EFI would be nice but the cost may blow out because you need an in-tank pump (everyone always seems to have problems with external in-line pumps), a fuel return line, and other things as well to let you tune it.
It may be worth considering a carby like an Edelbrock AVS2, or a similar carb that uses annular flow boosters - instead of a regular downleg booster that lets fuel in similar to a leaky garden hose, annular boosters have several small holes so the fuel comes spraying out, much like an injector, which lets it mix much better with the air. I have the 1906 on my 383, I drove it last week to the exhaust shop, was only about 10 miles, but it was down a highway and surface streets - the throttle response was great, it drove just like any other car, no stumbling, no hesitation etc. push the pedal down and it goes. Had no problems keeping up with daily traffic.
Once they finish it up I'll be able to install an O2 sensor to finally try out the Carb Cheater I've got, that'll let me really dial in the tune with its data logger, tach and vacuum gauges. If you don't like fiddling with carbs often, it has an auto-tune function that you use after getting a good tune on your carb, that controls an air valve that lets it keep the air-fuel ratios at the values you set it to for cruise, idle, power etc. If you're into tuning, the price of the Carb Cheater is worth it for the data logger alone.

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Thanks for that table. I am glad I started this post, as it seems the Holley Retrolights are the way to go. I would not have expected that LEDs draw as much current as the incandescents! So I will fit the LEDs first, and very soon add the relays to reduce current to the headlight switch. But what color temperature for the headlights do you prefer?

Always wondered why we had to replace headlight switches on our old cars, and never on our new cars. Now I know that relays are the reason. It is worth installing relays just to end replacing headlight switches forever. I always hated that knuckle-scraping job!

Incredible how many way we can make our old cars better than new. At some point I want to convert my 72 Newport to Holley Sniper FI as well. Eryone says there is a big difference in drivability, and a little increase in fuel economy as well.

Was quite content with running Hella E-code H4/H1 upgrades on pretty much everything I drove for many years. Until I picked up a Grand Cherokee with Bi-Zeon HIDs as a daily driver, now everything else looks too yellow, I prefer the “Modern White” 5700K Retrobrights these days on my classics.

BTW, no fans with the Retrobrights, back of the housing is a fined heatsink and they will mount into the stock buckets without any modifications required. On the downside, they are spendy.

Also, love my Sniper 2 on one of my cars almost as much as the other carbureted (3-carbs actually) car. Then again, the Sniper equipped car gets other not-so-stock upgrades that are of interest to me

 

[marty mopar]

NOT about headlights but about dash lights for the gauges.

I have a 1994 Dodge B-150 Van. The bulbs that illuminate the gauges
were pathetic: I could barely see the gauges. I ordered a bunch off the web
and after installing them: "a miracle". The green glow now makes all the
instruments pop out and easy to see! That was making me crazy and
now I am so happy I changed out the OEM bulbs.

DASH BULB #194 GREEN LED 1 1/16 INCHES LONG

put the above into a Google search and you will see what comes up.

 

[CBODY67]

As for the 100+ watt "landing lights", there is a circuit breaker in the back of the headlight switch (if not somewhere else) that is not rated for that much load. It will cut off the lights when that happens. Something else to consider . . . Discovered by a friend long ago, who was "going to light up the night" on his Firebird. LOL

 

[edbods]

Sure it wasn't because the bulbs were old? Mine were probably the originals, they were pretty dim. Visible, but dim. Bought a 10-pack of 3W incandescents, and they were nice and bright again.
I swapped out the gauge idiot lights in my 96 camry for LEDs and honestly they were too bright for my liking. But those had the diode shining directly at the user/gauge face. I think it'd probably work better in a spot where the light is shone indirectly before being directed to the gauge face.

As for the 100+ watt "landing lights", there is a circuit breaker in the back of the headlight switch (if not somewhere else) that is not rated for that much load. It will cut off the lights when that happens. Something else to consider . . . Discovered by a friend long ago, who was "going to light up the night" on his Firebird. LOL

Lol that's something I didn't think about, good catch
Wait...but we're not running the high beams through the switch anymore. We gots the relay harness!

 

[Henrius]

Sure it wasn't because the bulbs were old? Mine were probably the originals, they were pretty dim. Visible, but dim. Bought a 10-pack of 3W incandescents, and they were nice and bright again.
I swapped out the gauge idiot lights in my 96 camry for LEDs and honestly they were too bright for my liking. But those had the diode shining directly at the user/gauge face. I think it'd probably work better in a spot where the light is shone indirectly before being directed to the gauge face.

Lol that's something I didn't think about, good catch
Wait...but we're not running the high beams through the switch anymore. We gots the relay harness!

Was not aware that incandescent bulbs dimmed with time. Thought the light output was constant until the filament failed.
But you have a point about LEDs. Some cast the light only toward the top. I found that some had a bluish color temperature that made the gauges have a strange hue compared to OEM incandescents.

I believe that switching turn signal lamps to LED might prevent the original style flasher units from functioning? I much prefer the bell-like sound of the mechanical turn signal flashers.

 

[edbods]

Was not aware that incandescent bulbs dimmed with time

I'm pretty sure they shouldn't. But 50 years of humidity, moisture, weather changes etc. does have an effect. The contacts probably had increased resistance and not helped by 50 year old wiring etc.
LEDs will mess up traditional thermal flashers due to their lower resistance, so they end up flashing too quickly, as if you had a bulb out. You may need a flasher suitable for LEDs, I know you can get cheap aliexpress units that also let you adjust the flash rate with a little knob on it.
I got an electromechanical one, a Tridon/Novita HD12. The HD12 flashes at 85 beats per minute (google metronome and use that to get an idea). It flashes at exactly the same rate as a 90s Toyota, and sounds exactly the same as that, very clear sound over outside traffic. Being electromechanical, it unfortunately can't tell you if you have a bulb out, as it maintains a constant flash rate no matter what. I don't know if it's compatible with LEDs though. All the manufacturer says is "Flash rate is not influenced by load variation" so I can only assume it is.