Methods: best way to rebuild and bleed entire brake system

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Padre4art

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Hi all - just getting ready to completely refurbish the braking system in my low miles (21,000) 1964 Chrysler Newport. The hydraulics of the brakes appear to be untouched after 61 years of occasional use, and I sort of fear a 'brake blowout' when I drive it. The first time I drove it, I used the brakes pretty hard and by the time I got home, I had pedal pressure, but almost no stopping power! Sailed right on past my driveway! I am fairly certain the right rear emergency brake cable is frozen as well.

So, I have rebuild kits for the master cylinder and all four wheel cylinders, and three new hoses, and DOT 4 LMA fluid, and brake cleaner, wheel bearing grease, new brake drum seals, etc.

Question: Is there a best sequence in which to approach this rebuild that will create the least problems bleeding the brakes? I do plan on bench bleeding the master cylinder but don't know whether to start or end with the master cylinder.

I have a chinese brake bleeding kit (vacuum type) but not sure what works best for a home garage mechanic like me. Help welcomed, and opinions!

Art
 
As far as the mechanics of changing parts it will not make a difference what you fix first. When bleeding all 4 wheels I start with the farthest away from the brake cylinder and work up from there. If you are not or don't need to replace hard lines when you have the brake hoses and master cylinder off I would blow out the lines to get the old fluid out, or you could hook up the vacuum bleeder to the line and suck it out. If you don't replace any hard lines make sure you inspect them very well for rust, also if the old brake fluid coming out of the lines looks rusty I would default to replacing the hard lines as well. Brake fluid absorbs moisture and hard lines can rust on the inside.

In my opinion a power brake bleeder is best, second would be an assistant in the car pumping the brakes, third would be a vacuum bleeder, lastly you could gravity bleed it, fill the system open all the bleeders and and leave it over night.
 
I like the hose with the one way valve inside. You can bleed them yourself.

Power bleeders are fine if you are in a shop using it often. They sot more than they are used, the Brake fluid absorbs moisture. What's the cost? Not needed at home.
 
OK considering you don't do this for a living, here's my suggestion...as long as you currently have a pedal, start with the master, bench bleed it or bleed it at the line coming out of the master, and make sure you still have a pedal...then perhaps do LF as is is closest and easiest to bleed...you can install wc and hose, or do each separately, bleeding and making sure you still have a pedal...then proceed to rf, lr and rr...again bleeding in between...when you bleed, open the bleeder, push the pedal down, close the bleeder and pick your foot up slowly, taking a couple seconds (2 people)...repeat till you have a stream of clear fluid with no discoloration or air bubbles...your single resevoir doesn't hold much so keep checking cause if you run it dry you're back to square one...don't pump the hell out of the pedal, that will foam up the fluid and make it harder to get all the air out....this will use a lot of fluid but the whole idea of installing the wheel cylinder and hose one wheel at a time is to prevent the situation where you do the master and all four wheels, screw something up in the rebuilding process or get a defective part and now you are trying to bleed the system, can't get a pedal and have absolutely no clue why not or where to start to figure out why
 
On more modern vehicles on the assy line, the brakes are bled by first pulling a vacuum on the brake system at the master cylinder. When the vacuum reaches a certain level, and is stabilized, then the brake fluid goes in all at once. End of installation. No laborious, manual two-person brake bleeding done there.

Knowing that, I would trust the vac bleeder to pull all of the air out the top of the master cylinder, which should be the highest point in the brake system fluid plumbing. OF course, you would need a suitable fixture to put on top of the master cyl reservoir to hold a vacuum so the system works as it should.

When done with however method you have used. you can then pump the brakes with short, quick, rapid pumps to migrate any residual bubbles to the top of the master cylinder, for good measure. I have used this method when swapping master cylinders with great results. Whether I bench-bled the master cyl or not.

Just some thoughts, observations, and experiences. YMMV
CBODY67
 
Are you leaving the single master cylinder or going to a dual?

Sometimes those older cars like the 1964 with a single reservoir will gravity bleed, that's a good thing. So just keep the master cylinder from going dry and it will almost bleed itself. One bleeder open at a time with a hose going into a catch can to collect the mess.

Worked out nice and easy on a 1961 I did.
 
Don't rebuild a master cylinder or wheel cylinder. Do install new master and wheel cylinders.
Don't reinstall a single pot master cylinder. Do perform a twin pot master cylinder upgrade at this time.
I wouldn't drive a car with a single pot master cylinder more than 20 mph.

There it is, straight to the point, pure and simple.

Bleeding. Two-person pump and bleed can't be beat.
 
Just Carbs said:
Don't rebuild a master cylinder or wheel cylinder. Do install new master and wheel cylinders.
Don't reinstall a single pot master cylinder. Do perform a twin pot master cylinder upgrade at this time.
I wouldn't drive a car with a single pot master cylinder more than 20 mph.

There it is, straight to the point, pure and simple.

Bleeding. Two-person pump and bleed can't be beat.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should stick to carbs?

Rebuilding your cylinders is just fine, if they are not rust pitted. I do it all the time. Better than the china junk they sell these days with metric bleeder screws. LOL

And it is so easy to bleed brwkes by yourself with the proper tools.
 
413 said:
Maybe you should stick to carbs?

Rebuilding your cylinders is just fine, if they are not rust pitted. I do it all the time. Better than the china junk they sell these days with metric bleeder screws. LOL

And it is so easy to bleed brwkes by yourself with the proper tools.
Click to expand...
The proper tools for a home hobbyist are right there in the average toolbox. A wrench.
Yes, I have the vacuum pump, one-way valves, pressure bleeder, gravity and a few more.
We use some of them in the service bays, because they are often faster.
 
These help alot. Napa sells a similar one.
1756472868674.png
 
halifaxhops said:
These help alot. Napa sells a similar one.
View attachment 732778
Click to expand...
I've used those and they work great.

My Dad had a peanut butter jar strapped to a piece of wood with a hose in it he used for bleeding brakes. He'd just pour a little fluid in the jar and stick one end of the hose in it and the other on the bleeder. Worked great.

I've used all sorts of methods, and I have a pressure bleeder I bought when I was having problems pinpointing a leak in one car (turned out to be a bad bleeder that would suck air in, but hold fluid). My go-to is always my vacuum pump though. Quick and easy. I have also stuck Mrs. Big John in the driver seat to work the pedal.

I did have some issues bleeding a car that the previous owner changed to DOT 5 silicone fluid. I could not get a firm pedal with either the vacuum or pumping the pedal. I gave up and the next day, like freaking magic, the pedal was firm. I think I got air into the fluid and the silicone had to sit overnight. I have looked but haven't found the good method for bleeding with the DOT 5. Probably gravity would work best.
 
Gravity bleeding works ok if the master cylinder is on the firewall. If it's under the floorbaards, good luck with that route so my dad bought a pressure bleeder that I still own.

The two person pump and bleed introduces bubbles it the idiot with his foot on the pedal thinks that the faster he pumps, the faster things go.
NEVER, EVER, "PUMP" the brake pedal as it will induce air bubbles into the brake fluid.

Press the pedal just ONCE and hold it down while opening a bleed screw to expel any air. It may not feel like your friend is doing anything BUT there will be pressure in the system.

Close the bleed screw then have your partner press the pedal ONCE more and hold it down.

Again, open then close the bleed screw.

Each time you do this, there will be more and more resistance against the pedal.

The reason that you want to start furthest away from the master cylinder it to get the majority of the air out at the beginning, thus, making each subsequent wheel cylinder bleed go faster.

Now, Vacuum bleeders:

The trouble with vacuum bleeders is that, as you pump the handle to create the necessary vacuum to pull the brake fluid out to your bleed screw, AIR is leaking around the bleeder threads and into your wheel cylinder brake bleed fitting and you're pumping and pumping and getting nowhere.

Sometimes, it's best to coat the threads of the bleed screw with heavy grease to prevent outside air from entering your MityVac as you're pumping the handle.
It really speeds up the process.

Me, I grab one of my three pressure bleeders (one I used as a kid and it still works, another that replaced it years later, and a third with a regulated constant air supply that the other two didn't have) and fill it with fresh fluid and get the job done in 1/4 the time with no air bubbles.
 
Oh yea, I also own three Mityvac hand pumps but I rarely use them on brake systems. I use them on hvac systems to check out switch integrity and diaphragms looking for vacuum leaks.
 
Late to this thread. Rebuilt the entire system on a 63 880 which is basically a chrysler. New master I "bench bleed" with some lines I made up in the car. Your foot is better then a screwdriver and a vice. Change everything now and don't think the right hose is fine or the left looks ok. They are not. Swollen in the inside. Change all 3 flex lines. I had a problem with rear brakes to start on the car that sat 25 years. Turned out the main hard line going back was rusted up. I was able to hold a vacuum on it (just the hard line from the master) for hours. So swapped that out. I ended up doing every line after finding that issue. Bleeding by yourself is simple. Get a plastic water bottle and drill a small hole in the cap that fits a small length of vinyl hose through it all the way to almost the bottom of the bottle. then drill a smaller hole (vent) next to it. The hole should be small enough to keep the clear vinyl tight. The length of the hose should be around 24 inch and the hose size should fit snuggly (tight) over the brake cylinder bleeder. If need be heat the end of the house up with a lighter so it melts tight over it. They make rubber adaptors too. You will be able to pull it off. Now add about 1/4 of the bottle with new brake fluid (16 ounce coke bottle) and use a wire to hang the bottle off a shock, axle, etc. Make sure the vinyl line has a high arc in it. Fill up your master and go back and crack the bleeder and slowly pump the brakes 10 time. Release the pedal SLOWLY each time. Get out and check master then go back and see if the arc of tubing has any bubbles in it (bubbles will rise to the top of the arc). If it does go back and pump some more and repeat. Every time you return the pedal it will pull new fluid back into the wheel cylinder from the plastic bottle and not air. Do this on all 4 cylinders until you see no bubble in the top of the arc of the vinyl tubing.
 
Lots of good information here in the previous posts. I will only add one item, and JustCarbs already said it....

Since you are in this far, do yourself a favor (and anyone in front of you when you are driving) and change out that single line brake system to a dual line brake system. Not hard to do, and significantly safer. That way if you DO pop something in the brake system, you still have the other circuit to bring the car to a controlled stop rather than the "stop by ramming into something" method.

Not trying to scare you, just trying to make things safer for you.
 
Has anyone had a failure in a dual master cylinder system?

When it happened to me the pedal goes to the floor and it a crap your pants time anyway if over 20 mph. Still need to use the park brake and steer it to safety.

It's not that much better and it's a change the underwear time afterwards. But yes it's not zero brakes.
 
413 said:
Has anyone had a failure in a dual master cylinder system?

When it happened to me the pedal goes to the floor and it a crap your pants time anyway if over 20 mph. Still need to use the park brake and steer it to safety.

It's not that much better and it's a change the underwear time afterwards. But yes it's not zero brakes.
Click to expand...
Yep, twice as a matter of fact.

First time, the pedal went right to the floor and there's really no driving it home because brakes are minimal at best. The second time, a front hose burst during a panic stop on the top of an on-ramp and I hit the woman's Plymouth Horizon with my NYB that had stopped dead in front of me.

IMHO, the dual brake system is not what people think it is.
 
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