LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
That looks exactly like the 2 MP trays I've used.
187 oil pan capacity test.
- Thread starter BAD69FURY
- Start date
BAD69FURY
Active Member
thanks for all the feedback, yeah not trying to over anaylize this, LOL, just wanted to feel this out. My main concern is that I have a Melling HV oil pump so thats why Im running alittle extra oil just in case i suck the pan dry. I dont rev the car to crazy so I'm prolly good either way.
A smart move going with a high volume pump. Some folks make the mistake of going with a high pressure oil pump and end up with problems due to the high pressure.
High volume oil pump (standard pressure) and full-grooved main bearings are needed upgrades for certain engines' build specs. Higher oil pressure drains horsepower that can move the vehicle or get a little bit more fuel economy (if that matters). Similar with thicker-viscosity motor oil. Some of the "classic" orientations of the '60s and such have seemed to have become modified with much improved motor oil stocks that can better maintain the lubrication film than in prior times . . . when heavier viscosity oils did that.
CBODY67
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
If you are not running full groove main bearings and or not running over 6000 rpm, you do not need a high volume pump, period!
If you have the engine apart you should radius the 90°turn in the pick up but under 5500 rpm even that is not really needed.
A stock Mopar Performance windage tray needs the slots opened up to allow the oil off/out of the tray to get back into pan or it is useless, and creates windage.
The only reason the pan sucks dry is because the oil is up top and can't get back down fast enough past the spinning crank (windage from the top of engine instead of pan).
Best thing is on a stock to mildly modified (enough to run power brakes) is good stock pump with in spec bearing clearances and a lock washer between spring and cap on the oil pump. That will raise your pressure at speed to 60 or so psi and not beat the crap out of your stock dist./oil pump drive.
DONE.
If you have the engine apart you should radius the 90°turn in the pick up but under 5500 rpm even that is not really needed.
A stock Mopar Performance windage tray needs the slots opened up to allow the oil off/out of the tray to get back into pan or it is useless, and creates windage.
The only reason the pan sucks dry is because the oil is up top and can't get back down fast enough past the spinning crank (windage from the top of engine instead of pan).
Best thing is on a stock to mildly modified (enough to run power brakes) is good stock pump with in spec bearing clearances and a lock washer between spring and cap on the oil pump. That will raise your pressure at speed to 60 or so psi and not beat the crap out of your stock dist./oil pump drive.
DONE.
I know that sometimes, we always want to make things "better", especially with lubrication issues, BUT unless the engine is going to be subjected to continuous higher rpms, as nearer 5500 or more . . . key word is "continuous" . . . then the stock system is pretty good. If it hadn't been, no amount of "great high speed handling" would have compensated for blown engines in law enforcement vehicles.
Not unlike the Chevy people perceiving they need a 4bolt-main 350 to go to the corner store for some milk.
The full-grove mains will put more oil to the bearing, but the non-grooved bearings so a better job of spreading the load. Result is that a crank that's had full-groove mains will have a non-worn band where the groove in the bearing was, which would also decrease the volume of oil in the groove, if that matters. Seems like there's a recommendation in the old MP Race Manual of when to use full-groove mains? Unless your use criteria meets their "bar", no need to do it.
If you want to improve, then use a small file and smooth out the casting flash the oil might flow over on its way back to the pan (heads, lifter valley, etc). Then clean and clean as necessary.
Now, IF you're building an engine for one of the "top speed mile" special events, then the full-groove bearings might be needed, as would some really good motor oil. Plus engine specs to support max speed/rpm at WOT and not "level out" too soon.
CBODY67
Not unlike the Chevy people perceiving they need a 4bolt-main 350 to go to the corner store for some milk.
The full-grove mains will put more oil to the bearing, but the non-grooved bearings so a better job of spreading the load. Result is that a crank that's had full-groove mains will have a non-worn band where the groove in the bearing was, which would also decrease the volume of oil in the groove, if that matters. Seems like there's a recommendation in the old MP Race Manual of when to use full-groove mains? Unless your use criteria meets their "bar", no need to do it.
If you want to improve, then use a small file and smooth out the casting flash the oil might flow over on its way back to the pan (heads, lifter valley, etc). Then clean and clean as necessary.
Now, IF you're building an engine for one of the "top speed mile" special events, then the full-groove bearings might be needed, as would some really good motor oil. Plus engine specs to support max speed/rpm at WOT and not "level out" too soon.
CBODY67
Bighead440
New Member
My first ever MoPar engine build (I was 17) was a ring/bearing job on a '68 Chrysler 300 4dr. donor 440. Besides cleaning/vatting of all the parts and replacing the gaskets, I installed full groove main bearings and CL77 rod inserts. I used an original Street Hemi grind (.471/.474" lift, 108LSA) PurpleShaft cam, so it wasn't completely stock. Back then, you could still get the Ramchargers high-volume oil pump KIT, that included a spacer and HV gears to use with a stock pump housing. I put the 80# (black) spring in as well. I used a windage tray kit (they were like $18 back then, 1985) and the original "187" 300 pan. I always ran 6 quarts of oil (10W-30), the LONG filter and MoPar EOS (zinc additive) with zero problems in my 1966 Coronet 500. ALways had great oil pressure, no foaming, and the bearings looked cherry when I re-purposed the motor for racing years later. Just my $.02c
BAD69 - I have a 669 oil pan on a '68 383 and I've read these are identical to the 187 pan - do you have the original dipstick for your pan and can you tell me the specs. Tip to add mark, tip to full mark, tip to lip at top of tube? I have a chinese aftermarket stick in mine I have little confidence in..any info /comments appreciated
btw I don't think you are overanalyzing anything when it comes to 50 yr old cars that have had their various pieces parts added and subtracted over the years..
btw I don't think you are overanalyzing anything when it comes to 50 yr old cars that have had their various pieces parts added and subtracted over the years..
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bluefury361
Old Man with a Hat
What is this engine going to be used for? Highway driving and mildly modified BB's really don't need high volumn oil pumps or extra oil. The HV pumps can be more trouble then there worth, An additional quart of oil is just $5/10.00 out the window. I would not add the extra quart without a windage tray.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
I'm beginning to suspect my high volume pump didn't help any when I was running low on oil. But where the oil was going in the first place is probably a bigger issue.
bluefury361
Old Man with a Hat
A big issue with HV/HP pumps is oil filter falure, which, as we all know, is the oil filters fault.
LocuMob
Fluid Technician with a hat
Filters have held up, even the cheapo Fram's. I now use a Mopar oil filter. Every engine I've had in the car has been used so some oil loss through the valve guides was normal, but I lost 1.5quarts within a month or two with very little driving, a few hundred miles, which is why I secured another 440, just in case.
mr gtx
Active Member
would you still use 2 oil pan gaskets ?
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
If installing a windage tray, I would use 2 gaskets and longer oil pan mounting bolts.
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
From the original post, 6 quarts covers the baffles on his 187 pan. Not sure how much good the extra quart does, or if it is just creating unneeded windage. Are you running a 187 pan? Baffles?
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
Personally, I run a windage tray and fill 6 quarts. No issues here.
First was just a stock pan, don't remember if it was a 187 but c body is c body. Then with windage tray. Now my turbo oil drain modded pan has custom baffles. Not that it takes alot of capacity, but I have 6' of feed line and 5' of oil drains for the turbos as well
mr gtx
Active Member
mine was uncovered of the line with a fast take off even with a windage tray. an extra 1/2 quart did the trick.
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