440 with Terminator EFI

[65Fury440]

My junk's at the point where it needs a rear, or it least top sump system, and any weight savings are good.
I'm just going to one of the simpler pump in tank jobs, hopefully something with a sending unit.
I run a Carter 6903 mechanical most of the time, and just use the electric to prime or race.
It hols 7.5 lbs steady now, but, I'd just like to get the old tank out of there and have it all new.

 

[furious70]

I've not got any experience with self learning, only speed density MPI systems. You can very quickly get wot safe, and cruise efficient with the self tune it has, but startup, warm up, Accel pump work is very laborious and 100% experimental.

 

[dart4forte]

So you guys that went pump in tank, what tanks are you running? I am going to a pump in fuel cell system becaus;the 65 Fury tank from Vans doesn't have that option.

I have a Tanks Inc. universal in my D100. It’s baffled for FI. The pump is a Tanks Inc GPA 2. External pumps don’t last here in Arizona.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

My junk's at the point where it needs a rear, or it least top sump system, and any weight savings are good.
I'm just going to one of the simpler pump in tank jobs, hopefully something with a sending unit.
I run a Carter 6903 mechanical most of the time, and just use the electric to prime or race.
It hols 7.5 lbs steady now, but, I'd just like to get the old tank out of there and have it all new.

Honestly with the big long tanks in a C body I would add a length of hose to the sending unit toward the back. All these new sending units seem to be way off the bottom of the tank, like run out and then fill up with 14.5 gallons in a 18 gallon tank. Pays to double check when installing.
I'm planning on running a 3/8 sending unit to mechanical pump through a check valve and a electric out of a sump welded into the rear of the tank, plumbed into the feed line after the check valve. I hate the thought of dragging fuel through the electric when not in use and forgetting to turn it on in the event of a impromptu street race and penalized with low fuel flow.
Of course for the fuel injection mentioned in this thread in tank pump is the only way to go.

 

[furious70]

My walbro255 has been hanging out on the frame rail since 2009.
But if a cbody in tank 600hp option had been available back then I would have considered it. I will be doing a new in tank set up for my Coronet, also boosted efi

 

[65Fury440]

Honestly with the big long tanks in a C body I would add a length of hose to the sending unit toward the back. All these new sending units seem to be way off the bottom of the tank, like run out and then fill up with 14.5 gallons in a 18 gallon tank. Pays to double check when installing.
I'm planning on running a 3/8 sending unit to mechanical pump through a check valve and a electric out of a sump welded into the rear of the tank, plumbed into the feed line after the check valve. I hate the thought of dragging fuel through the electric when not in use and forgetting to turn it on in the event of a impromptu street race and penalized with low fuel flow.
Of course for the fuel injection mentioned in this thread in tank pump is the only way to go.

Yea with anything less than about 1/4 tank, the pickup goes dry. The tank slopes up going towards the rear, so G force is not it's friend. That means carrying a bunch of fuel around when we go race.
I have had several vehicles with mechanicals drawing through one of these
carter electric fuel pump - Google Search
Have not had a problem yet related to sucking through the electric pump. The lack of Carter mechanical pump quality is what led me to do it again. So far, this current pump has been alright, although it loses about 1-1.5 lbs of pressure once it gets hot. Once the electric is kicked on though it stays steady.
I have one of my cooling fans wired on a thermostat just for the fact I forget things more and more on a daily basis.

 

[furious70]

I also have to keep 1/4 tank or I get slosh and it cuts out

 

[WissaMan]

I A carburetor at WOT will always make more power, because of the venturis. The lowering of the pressure in the venturis causes the temperature to drop (were you paying attention in high school physics?) it gives up it's heat to vaporize the fuel. Provided the carburetor is not too small (showing manifold vacuum at WOT and high rpm) you will now have a colder more oxygen rich thus more fuel to burn charge in the intake manifold, equaling more power. Throttle body fuel injection can never get here, no pressure drop to help vaporize.

I'm not contradicting your above statements, but fuel injectors spraying a fine mist of fuel under high pressure into the air stream will also cause a marked temperature drop of the intake charge.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I'm not contradicting your above statements, but fuel injectors spraying a fine mist of fuel under high pressure into the air stream will also cause a marked temperature drop of the intake charge.

Just not as big.
You have already added heat/kinetic energy to the fuel by pressurizing it to ~50psi. This is why the pump is in the tank to keep it cool. The fuel vaporizing cools the intake charge on both ~the same. In a carburetor you have a temperature drop from the pressure drop across the venturis to move the fuel from float bowls through main jets an out the booster, efi does not have venturi pressure drop. The point is kind moot, because it is a very narrow advantage completely overshadowed by drivability and cruise precision. Which is why modern efi cars are amazing running machines. Some of the OEM style precision is lost in a throttle body style over port injected OEM. I have heard of problems with these bolt on throttle body efi not being able to deal with really large/radical cams. Of course a carb would have issues also and they make the parts to modify your carb to compensate.

 

[440efi]

I also have to keep 1/4 tank or I get slosh and it cuts out

Have you looked into the Holley Hydramat? It is magical.

 

[furious70]

no since I'm still on the 'cheap man' OEM tank, pickup, and walbro 255 hanging on the frame rail. It's really not an issue unless I'm looking to get froggy on a low tank. It can drive normally down to E without issue. Not worth all the re-engineering to me. If I ever need a new tank then I'll do something different.

 

[twostick]

Just not as big.
You have already added heat/kinetic energy to the fuel by pressurizing it to ~50psi. This is why the pump is in the tank to keep it cool. The fuel vaporizing cools the intake charge on both ~the same. In a carburetor you have a temperature drop from the pressure drop across the venturis to move the fuel from float bowls through main jets an out the booster, efi does not have venturi pressure drop. The point is kind moot, because it is a very narrow advantage completely overshadowed by drivability and cruise precision. Which is why modern efi cars are amazing running machines. Some of the OEM style precision is lost in a throttle body style over port injected OEM. I have heard of problems with these bolt on throttle body efi not being able to deal with really large/radical cams. Of course a carb would have issues also and they make the parts to modify your carb to compensate.

If the system is laptop capable for tuning, the big cam overlap issues can be dealt with.

On my 493 with the now prehistoric Commander 950 TBI and MP509, we set it to run alpha/numeric to about 2000 rpm and then switch to closed loop on the fuel map from there.

Kevin

 

[440efi]

Got the Terminator TB on and noticed they changed the cross over tube to the fuel rails. Dose not look like anything in the pics. No allowances for expansion or contraction standard gates fuel hose, possible fire hazzard. Not happy!!