'65 New Yorker steering box leaking - gasket or ring?

Raxxter

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
24
Reaction score
12
Location
Colorado
My '65 New Yorker is leaking rather badly from the top, where the hose from the power steering radiator returns to the box.
I replaced the hose, hoping that was the issue, but it didn't help.

I've looked at the rebuild / gasket kits, and the various pictures only show rings as part of the kit. I was kind of expecting a paper (or maybe rubber) type gasket to go from where the metal hose connection part bolts onto the top of the box.
Could this seal by a ring? or will I have to try to RTV it, or something?
I can't find a diagram anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

(From what I can tell, it's leaking between the -silver- hose connection and the -black- rest of the body, in the pictures...)

65 steering box 1-sm.jpg


65 steering box 2-sm.jpg


65 steering box 3-sm.jpg
 
Your return hose is distended just to the rear of the clamp, which is the wrong one for this application, it should be a spring type clamp. Start by replacing that hose as it is ready to fail and may the source of the leak. Suggest replacing the clamp also with the correct type. If that does not solve your leak, there are two O rings that form the seal to the hose mount casting. Do not use any type of sealer on the O rings if you need to replace them as excess sealer can get into the PA valve and cause severe problems. Be sure to carefully clean the upper casting and the area around it as you do not want any dirt getting into the exposed oil channels. Carefully scribe the location of the upper hose mount casting prior to removing it, some of these have slotted mount holes, you want to put this item back in exactly the same place as you took it off.

Dave
 
Dave-

Thanks for the information about the O-rings!

The hose in the picture is the brand new one I just replaced. The distended effect is, I believe, in part to the end of the 45-degree line fitting 'bulging' out to a slightly larger diameter at the end, combined with the type of clamp I have on the hose. The old hose had the spring type clamp.

What is the difference between a spring type clamp and the screw type one I used? I've never heard there to be any real difference.
I went with the screw type clamp under the vague impression it might possibly squeeze the hose a slight bit tighter. I figured with the hose fitting onto a metal line, there wasn't any real risk of cracking or distorting the line... what am I missing?

Thanks,
Raxx
 
I think the clamp is ok, remove the 2 bolts and replace the O-rings, like Dave said NO sealer. I just did this recently on a customers GTX I just matched the O-rings up with some we had on hand.
 
Dave-

Thanks for the information about the O-rings!

The hose in the picture is the brand new one I just replaced. The distended effect is, I believe, in part to the end of the 45-degree line fitting 'bulging' out to a slightly larger diameter at the end, combined with the type of clamp I have on the hose. The old hose had the spring type clamp.

What is the difference between a spring type clamp and the screw type one I used? I've never heard there to be any real difference.
I went with the screw type clamp under the vague impression it might possibly squeeze the hose a slight bit tighter. I figured with the hose fitting onto a metal line, there wasn't any real risk of cracking or distorting the line... what am I missing?

Thanks,
Raxx

The spring type clamps provide the proper amount of tension on the hose, this prevents crushing or cutting of the hose. The screw type you are using will work, just do not get too carried away with over tightening them. I am something of a purist on such matters and prefer to keep things as stock as I can.

Dave
 
steering gear.PNG

This is from a '67 service manual.
Left click on the picture to make it bigger.
 
Hoping the hose you got was rated for power steering fluid. Fuel line will work, but might not last as long. SAME with the O-rings. Generic O-rings will last for a while, but can start seeping with time. They'll look the same, but the rubber composition can be different if they are rated for power steering fluid exposure.

Only thing about screw clamps vs spring clamps is that you can over-tighten a screw clamp, whereas the spring clamp needs no adjustment (which is one reason they are popular on the assembly line). They can lose their tension over time, though, which is why most were replaced with screw clamps, back them. Seems like screw clamps were a fleet option?

There IS also a correct position of the clamp on the hose, on the barbed tube the hose fits over. Some used to slide the hose well down the tube and put the screw clamp at the end. This is BAD! You can still put the hose clamp near the end, but don't slide the hose too far down on the tube. Just far enough past the barb to allow the clamp (of whichever type) to exert its force just behind the end of the barb, not on the barb, but just past it on the "straight" part of the tube. This makes the barb a part of the total sealing package, especially with the clamp just nudging the barbed area on the "flat" part of the tube. No fluid can accumulate behind the clamped area, that way.

KEY thing on screw clamps is to NOT tighten the clamp so tight that you cut the rubber on the outside. Good and snug on a clean sealing surface. Then, after a few hot/cold cycles of the hose, re-check the torque on the clamp for good measure. The spring clamps are "install and forget", and make sure they are positioned correctly on the hose.

ALSO hoping you re-filled the system with genuine Chrysler power steering fluid! Next best thing is the GM ps fluid. NOT atf, which will eventually seep through the hoses. The genuine psf is a waxy clear color. When I got my '67, it had "red" atf in it. Little dots of red fluid were appearing on the outside of the ps hoses. I drained the reservoir a few times and refilled it with Chrysler psf or the similar GM psf. Seeps stopped!

The old "service station" service manuals said you could "top-off" the system with atf back then. But if you do that too much, because of a leak or major seeping, you soon have a system full of atf (and red fluid). Best to fix the leak and keep the correct psf in the system!

Back in the '80s and prior, the quart can of Chrysler Power Steering Fluid came in a tall, round can. Looked really nice! ALSO had a rolled lip with a matching metal cap. The rolled lip meant you could easily pour from it, with no drips as you ended the pour session. They werw worth keeping! When my source closed, I kept the can and put the very similar GM PSF in it, just to keep the rolled-lip can.

CBODY67
 
So, I replaced the O-rings with some from an 'assorted' set from the local auto parts store.
There are two, a large one and a small one. Both of them were crushed down pretty severly. The set came wit one that matched the larger ring, but the smaller one was not a good fit.
I've got a ring kit for the power steering box on order, but it's not supposed to be in until next week. I matched the O-rings as best I could from the kit, and now I've just got a very, very small amount of weeping. It will work until the kit arrives and I can change the assorted O-rings for the correct ones.
At least I can drive her. She was leaking PS fluid at an undriveable level before.
Thanks for all of the advice!
 
Good you fixed it. A regular black Nitrile (Buna-N) O-ring will work fine. That aluminum return housing is used only on early cars (like my 1965), and I think ties to the TRW power steering pump. Later Federal pumps (look very similar) use a smaller return hose. Even later Saginaw pumps are different still. There are also a few O-rings between the spool valve body and gear housing. If you replace those, you will need to adjust the the valve so the gear doesn't "self steer". Easy to do (slide back and forth) and the FSM details how. Viton O-rings (often brown) would be the very best and HBNR (green, usually AC) might also be better, but most kits have nitrile. BTW, the high-pressure fitting and hose also varies between the 3 pumps.

Chrysler put out a TSB a few years ago saying to refill with ATF+4 in any older p.s. systems when doing extensive work. They gave no caveat for "not 1960-80's", so I assume it applies. New cars ship with ATF+4 p.s. fluid. The main reason was to eliminate a chattering noise in long hoses like minivans have.

If you ever need new hoses, and can't get from auto parts, just peruse a hose catalog (Parker, Goodyear, etc) for ones rated for hot hydraulic oil and >150 psig if return or >1500 psig for high pressure. Many people use "2-wire" 3K psig hydraulic hose for the high-pressure (Tractor Supply, etc). An AC shop may be able to crimp ferrules. I did on my 1984 M-B, but it has field-repairable h.p. fittings.
 
Back
Top