'66 Imperial Convertible Rebuild: A Fresh Start

Thanks.

Wanted to reply to Mr C's post about electrical gremlins, as I have a few of those hiding in the car as well.

Electrical systems can appear very imposing and intimidating due to the sheer volume of 'stuff' involved. And there are certainly components and faults that are challenging to diagnose.

I would hazard a guess that 75% or more of electrical issues in our old cars are connection-related. As in, a poor connection. Of that figure, at least 50% would be bad ground connections. These are usually lugs under washers somewhere on the body or frame.

To oversimplify a bit, think of an AC light in your house: you have the power company source, wire running into your house, a switch, the light, and a return.

Now substitute a DC battery for the power source, and a ground connection for the return.

If you use a simple Digital Volt Meter (DVM) to check the voltage, you can check it before the switch to see if you have power coming to the circuit. If not, you'd go back to the source (battery) and check there.

If you have power at the switch, close the switch and check the other side. If yes, switch is good. If not, switch is bad.

On to the light socket, bulb good or bad. If good, check the physical condition of the socket proceed to ground connection.

As I said, it's an oversimplified explanation, but basically that's all there is to it. If you have good power and ground connections and you've got power coming to the component (switch, bulb, gauge, motor, etc) with no results, check the component.

When tackling an old car like this one that hasn't been in use for many years, I make it a practice to loosen and clean every ground connection I come across. Corrosion from years of moisture as well as electrolysis from dissimilar metals will break connections out of view under washers or in connectors, like those big firewall bulkhead plugs.

Two things worth having: a DVM with an audio feature for checking continuity between connections, and contact cleaner. The continuity 'beeeeep' is nice because it frees you up to keep an eye on your work and just listen for results. Hook the meter between two contacts of a switch, close the switch, you should get a beep. If not, the switch is the problem but not necessarily bad.

Contact cleaner is the other important thing for electrical work. I use a product called Caig DeOxit D5 aka Red which can clean light surface corrosion, grease, and other build up off contacts inside switches. WD-40 will work in a pinch. Squirt it in, work the switch, re-test. Same goes for those snap together connectors - pull them apart, spray a small amount in, the work the connector together and apart a few times to mechanically clean the contact areas.

Loosen those ground connections, spray, work back and forth a bit, then re-tighten.

95% or more of electrical problems are that simple. Tedious, sure. But it's a process of elimination: clean the contacts, check for voltage, isolate the problem component. Sometimes it's even a break in the wire hidden by the insulation. Those tend to be annoying since they're often somewhere in a harness.

Hope this helps you overcome those gremlins. Once you corner one and defeat it, you'll see how easy it really is. Time and patience are the bigger issues.

DeOxit_D5.png
 
Ahh... Another De-oxit fan. Everyone with an old car should have some on hand.

I like the brush on stuff myself.
 
The brush on or swab is better because you aren't so likely to overdo it. The spray can is handy for enclosed items, hard to reach locations and such, but it's easy to use a lot more than you need. I learned the hard way with a WWII shortwave receiver I was rebuilding years ago.

The older phenolic material used in old wafer switches and some other applications absorbs the stuff causing it to swell to the point the switch froze up. Liberal application of alcohol (isopropyl and medicinal single malt)along with some patience fixed it, but it still a little stiff to this day.

DeOxit is basically a watered down version of Cramolin which any tech from the broadcast or 2 way industry would remember well from past decades. Good stuff.
 
Another quick update.

Didn't get a lot done over the long weekend due first to rain then catching up on yard work.

Did manage to find a few minutes last night to test more electrical systems. Had to wait for dark to see the dash lights better, but aside from a flaky rheostat from sitting 31 years, they work fine. Maybe one or two bulbs out. Parking, headlights, and brake lights all work well. License plate is out (haven't checked bulb) as well as glove box, ashtray, driver's door and back seat courtesy lights. Forgot to try the high beams! Basically, everything is working electrically to get it through state inspection.

Next stop - local garage for new gas tank, sender, and complete brake system rebuild. Oh, to have a lift in my garage. And a garage big enough for a lift. And more free time. And...
 
The brush on or swab is better because you aren't so likely to overdo it. The spray can is handy for enclosed items, hard to reach locations and such, but it's easy to use a lot more than you need. I learned the hard way with a WWII shortwave receiver I was rebuilding years ago.

The older phenolic material used in old wafer switches and some other applications absorbs the stuff causing it to swell to the point the switch froze up. Liberal application of alcohol (isopropyl and medicinal single malt)along with some patience fixed it, but it still a little stiff to this day.

DeOxit is basically a watered down version of Cramolin which any tech from the broadcast or 2 way industry would remember well from past decades. Good stuff.

The Cramolin and other good contact cleaners had trichlorotrifluoroethane in them. Can't get any of that now.
 
If you're going to ask anything truly Imperial specific, the best place to go is the Imperial group on Yahoo! groups. This forum is better for anything that is common to all Chryslers, but the Imperial-only stuff has been pretty well figured out over there.

California Car Cover had a cover that fit my '67 perfectly. I'm not sure if they make something waterproof, but I'd bet they have a cover that fits your car.
 
Thank you for the suggestions. Got a cover ordered yesterday from another company, we'll see how it goes. Mainly looking for something to keep the car dry until I get a new top on it.

As to Yahoo, there are a number of smart folks there in different groups. I still belong to one but the hassles, spam, and the fact the Yahoo is probably the most hacked internet-based email provider keeps me away. Forums like this are easier for a fudd like me to use. :D

So a bit more progress to report: tested high beams and backup lights, both work fine. Think that's the last of the electrical items for state safety inspection.

Along with the car cover, I ordered a new fuel tank and sender from Van's. Next will be locating all the necessary brake parts for a system overhaul. Found everything on Rock Auto but Jim makes a good point about ease of returns. Beyond cylinders, I don't yet know what else the car needs. There was work done to the car before it was stored. I'm fine with getting everything beforehand just in case; being able to easily return linings or such if not needed would be good.

Also noticed something else interesting. Somewhere there is a short or something drawing on the battery even when everything is shut off. Decided to wiggle switches on the dash to see if anything was stuck on. When I hit the switch for the convertible top, it whirred in the UP position, but when I touched the DOwn side, I heard the frame and top start to creak a bit. Hmmm....supposedly a hose had a leak and the top didn't work? I know the differential is wet so maybe the seller mis-diagnosed. Might've just been stuck down from being stored that way for 31 years? Or maybe the UP hydraulic circuit leaks and the Down side doesn't? Not familiar enough with the set up to know if that's even possible.

Still a long way to go, but getting closer. The immediate goal is to have it roadworthy this fall then (hopefully) to a body shop for paint and bumper/trunk repairs this winter. Top replacement after that. Was pleasantly surprised at the cost of a new top. Installation is probably the 'gotcha'.
 
You may also consider any touch/repairs needed to the top frame while the cover is off. Let the installer remove the existing cover, then take the car home to do any repairs if needed.
 
Good idea. The frame and seals look okay, but you never know until you get into replacing the top.

Got a bit more done since the last post, took some time off for Hurricane Irma due to family around the Tampa Bay area. All are doing fine, thankfully.

First thing I tried was pulling the rear bumper a bit. Picked up a 8000 lb come-along from Harbor Freight and hooked it between the bumper and a large tree. Pulled the top part of the bumper back a ways, but it returned mostly to where it was. It did move enough to give the trunk lid free reign to open. Unfortunately, no joy there. I can't hear any positive response in the latch when I turn the key, so it's looking more like the latch is somehow damaged internally. Trunk lid has an inch or so play up and down, it's not stuck or jammed in place.

More work to do there. The good news is, the back panel/trunk area appears to be only slightly pushed in from the impact. Nothing serious like creasing or other damage. Hopefully a simple pull once the bumpers are removed will restore it to normal.

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Also got the rear seat removed. The screws holding the back section in place were already removed and left on the floor beneath the seat bottom. Sure enough - there's a pretty serious fluid leak or several back there. The sound deadening material on the floor has turned to a tar-like goo, managed to step into the middle of it.

Hard to tell where the leak around the pump is. Looks like it could be the hose coupling in the rear but it felt dry back there. Wondered if the seller tried to add fluid at some point and spilled a bunch? Also suspect leakage around the cylinders. Won't know that until I get the side panels pulled. Definitely need to find a set of rear seat belts, though. Soaking in brake fluid can't do them any good.

It was tempting, but I'm glad I didn't try to operate the top. It acted like it wanted to come down when I bumped the switch earlier. If it had, I'm not sure how I would've gotten it to go back up.

Between the rear vinyl filler panel and cardboard backing beneath it, there doesn't appear to be any access to the trunk without tearing something out. Holding off doing that for now.

Still some good news, though - the floor under the seat is shiny metal. No rust or rot I'd worried about typical of convertibles.
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Good idea. The frame and seals look okay, but you never know until you get into replacing the top.

Got a bit more done since the last post, took some time off for Hurricane Irma due to family around the Tampa Bay area. All are doing fine, thankfully.

First thing I tried was pulling the rear bumper a bit. Picked up a 8000 lb come-along from Harbor Freight and hooked it between the bumper and a large tree. Pulled the top part of the bumper back a ways, but it returned mostly to where it was. It did move enough to give the trunk lid free reign to open. Unfortunately, no joy there. I can't hear any positive response in the latch when I turn the key, so it's looking more like the latch is somehow damaged internally. Trunk lid has an inch or so play up and down, it's not stuck or jammed in place.

More work to do there. The good news is, the back panel/trunk area appears to be only slightly pushed in from the impact. Nothing serious like creasing or other damage. Hopefully a simple pull once the bumpers are removed will restore it to normal.

View attachment 143023 View attachment 143024

I get a little pissed every time I see yer busted up back bumper. . .
 
Me too, especially since it was pretty damned clean. Murray has a set with a clean top, a few dings in the bottom(actual bumper) part. Mine had zero dings and no rust. I moved on, but I still need to kick myself in the *** for that one as soon as I figure out how.
 
Before you buy a used bumper, why don't you call http://www.tricityplating.com/

It seems to me that buy the time you buy the bumper from Murray and get it shipped to you, you might be not too far away from getting your bumper redone. Then it won't have any dings etc.

One other thing... Can that bumper be pulled off without getting in the trunk?
 
Figured I'd do another update since it might be a few days until I get back to it.

All the items have arrived for the fuel system replacement. PO replaced fuel pump; tank & J bolts came from Van's Auto, sender came from another vendor. Tank & sender each came with new ring & gasket, so I'll have a spare if anyone is in need.

Also received the cover. Cleaned the car and got it on just before the remnants of Irma arrived this week. Got it from CarCovers.com, a decent cover but I'm not crazy about the fit. Seems a tad short in front. But overall it covers the car and keeps it dry, my main goal until the top is replaced.

More photos, including the dismembered backseat. The rest of the chrome and stainless cleaned up nicely. On to the interior next.

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If you do look for a used rear bumper and trunk lid, there are three salvage yards within an hour and a half drive that you could try.

In Upper Marlboro Maryland, there is B&B Auto Salvage. For a long time, it was a Mopar only yard. Its not a big yard, but they still have a small section of old Mopars and they tend to have alot of stuff that they removed from old Mopars before sending them to the crusher. Automobile Parts | Bowie, MD - B & B AUTO SALVAGE

On the south side of Fredricksburg, Virginia, there is Fredricksburg Auto Salvage,
11045 Claiborne Crossing Rd, Fredericksburg, VA 22408
Phone: (540) 898-8630.
Its a large yard that is (at least it was last time I was there) mostly 60's to 80's cars.

About 10 miles south of Culpepper, Virginia, is Leon's Auto Parts on RT 29 in Leon, Virginia.
6207 James Monroe Hwy, Leon, VA 22725
Phone: (540) 547-2366
Its a 100+ acre salvage yard with tons of rusted out 60's and 70's Mopars. I went last week and noticed a few mid 60's Imperials.
 
Before you buy a used bumper, why don't you call http://www.tricityplating.com/

It seems to me that buy the time you buy the bumper from Murray and get it shipped to you, you might be not too far away from getting your bumper redone. Then it won't have any dings etc.

One other thing... Can that bumper be pulled off without getting in the trunk?

I don't think so, John. The lower bumper mounts are accessible from beneath but Murray said the top light bar piece has two mounts into the trunk. Somehow I'll need to get it open.

I did check the TriCity site, think it was $1100-$1200 for a replated, ready-to-go set. Not a bad price but since it wasn't in the original budget I was hoping to find a decent set for $500 or so and do the work myself to lessen the impact a bit.

The two pieces (top & bottom) Murray has are $550 before freight or driving there. Trunk lid is $475 which might force me to repair what I have since it's really not too bad.

Someone (maybe you?) mentioned previously having this bumper repaired - I have no idea how they could do that? A rosebud, hammer, & anvil? This is some seriously thick steel and it bent it enough to buckle and flake the chrome. Have never heard of a bumper of this era being straightened or repaired before. It just looks really messed up to me.

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Thanks Jim! Aside from the small yard down 234 that scraps later model stuff, I don't yet know the lay of the land around here for yards. Will give them a try. I don't think Murray's prices are bad for what he has, the freight or cost of going there makes it tough.
 
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