'68 Fury 318 stock radiator replacement with Cold Case

[Gerald Morris]

You're correct, I haven't verified anything unfortunately. I think the problem is that I admittedly know diddly-squat about these details of older vehicles and of course Google doesn't have much info either. It feels like I'm teaching myself rocket science on an actual rocket with a braille manual. LOL

Laser temp gun? No idea what that is.

I think I'm going to just assume that cooling is otherwise as efficient as it can be with the current setup and start with a fixed fan having more blades. Do you happen to know who might sell a direct replacement for the 4 blade?

I *think* I also may have found a factory sized shroud so hopefully those two may be the simplest solution for now.

Thanks guys and sorry for all the questions. My win/loss repair ratio ain't that great at the moment but I just want to "do no harm" to my baby here.

My advice here is to save your $$ until you are SURE your radiator needs replacing. I have one of the best Mopar ever made, a 1965 22 x 17" one meant for Hi Alt-AC-Auto or driving in Hell for that matter. I tried a Cold Case one which is indeed thicker and shorter, about 22 x 16", ran it for 2 years after I saw some leaks pop out on my old one with good cooling, then had to replace the Cold Case after it swiftly rotted out. I had it well grounded to the battery, and a zinc anode in the thing too, but have since been informed that Chinese aluminum simply CAN'T be trusted for long term use. I replaced the Cold Case with a better aluminum radiator made in Chicago, and followed the maker's rigid grounding protocols, with good cooling, but it failed to survive crashing into a late model Infinity, leaving me with naught but my old Mopar one and a light duty 2 row Mopar which I since found is for a /6.

Soo, I had the good old 2524984 rodded out, patched, and painted by a good local shop, and that again cools the same 383 it rolled off the Line in Nov., 1965 with. During the cool season down here, I use only an electric pusher fan with this splendid old copper wonder, though I install an 18 inch clutched 7 blade Mopar fan for the HOT Season, coming here around May usually.

This year: I'll have the fan shroud MADE for this exact radiator from another my my lucky eBay scores! I just stripped, then repainted that in engine enamel. I also got another 2524984 with that shroud. I'm having the same shop rod and seal this one too. I'll NEVER sell these.

 

[Zaggart]

My advice here is to save your $$ until you are SURE your radiator needs replacing. I have one of the best Mopar ever made, a 1965 22 x 17" one meant for Hi Alt-AC-Auto or driving in Hell for that matter. I tried a Cold Case one which is indeed thicker and shorter, about 22 x 16", ran it for 2 years after I saw some leaks pop out on my old one with good cooling, then had to replace the Cold Case after it swiftly rotted out. I had it well grounded to the battery, and a zinc anode in the thing too, but have since been informed that Chinese aluminum simply CAN'T be trusted for long term use. I replaced the Cold Case with a better aluminum radiator made in Chicago, and followed the maker's rigid grounding protocols, with good cooling, but it failed to survive crashing into a late model Infinity, leaving me with naught but my old Mopar one and a light duty 2 row Mopar which I since found is for a /6.

Soo, I had the good old 2524984 rodded out, patched, and painted by a good local shop, and that again cools the same 383 it rolled off the Line in Nov., 1965 with. During the cool season down here, I use only an electric pusher fan with this splendid old copper wonder, though I install an 18 inch clutched 7 blade Mopar fan for the HOT Season, coming here around May usually.

This year: I'll have the fan shroud MADE for this exact radiator from another my my lucky eBay scores! I just stripped, then repainted that in engine enamel. I also got another 2524984 with that shroud. I'm having the same shop rod and seal this one too. I'll NEVER sell these.

Thanks Gerald,

I've also been told by numerous shroud dealers that it's impossible to match up a shroud with a specific OEM model number.

SO, with everyone's good advice on here I'm just going to start with a larger, 6-blade fixed to replace the 4 blade and a bottle of water wetter. That's something even I can handle and my wife will appreciate the $$$ savings. Especially since this was only first on my list of spring fixes. LOL

 

[Big_John]

Laser temp gun? No idea what that is.

It's an infrared thermometer that measures surface temperature. The word "laser" is a misnomer. The laser just serves as a pointer.

Lot's of cheap ones around. Just keep in mind they measure the temperature on the outside surface and the water inside could be different. Sometimes it's not quite as accurate on shiny surfaces too. It can tell you a lot though. Somewhere, I have a picture of me calibrating one we used for advertising back when I worked for a living. (Actually it's just my arm LOL).

 

[Zaggart]

It's an infrared thermometer that measures surface temperature. The word "laser" is a misnomer. The laser just serves as a pointer.

Lot's of cheap ones around. Just keep in mind they measure the temperature on the outside surface and the water inside could be different. Sometimes it's not quite as accurate on shiny surfaces too. It can tell you a lot though. Somewhere, I have a picture of me calibrating one we used for advertising back when I worked for a living. (Actually it's just my arm LOL).

View attachment 589257

I'll pick one up ASAP. Thanks! And still cheaper than a radiator.

 

[fury fan]

Here's a list of mechanical fans (mechanical means non-electric) which will include for clutches and non-clutched/direct drive:
https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=mechanical fan

Avoid flex fans.
You might need to decide NOW if you would ever want to use a clutched fan. Those fans have a larger pilot hole.
If you buy a direct-drive fan now, you can't use that fan with a clutch later.

Here's an example of what type to look for.
Derale Cooling Products 17318 Derale Rigid Race Fans | Summit Racing

Specs to consider:
diameter
you NEED a clockwise fan
pitch width - when the fan is laying flat, what is the measurement to the top edge of the blades?
distance from the mounting surface to the front and rear edges of the blades - to make sure it won't hit radiator or engine items
spacer thickness - this might make all the difference for whether a fan's pitch width will be in the middle of the allowable space
pilot and mounting pattern


I just measured a 7-blade direct-drive that I believe came off my 68 Fury that had add-on dealer AC.
18" dia
2.11" pitch width
1.16" from mtg surface to back edge of blade (ignoring the spacer)
1.73" spacer
5/8" pilot
mtg pattern is 4 5/16" bolts on a 2.06" circle (this pilot and mtg pattern is one of the SAE standards)

In the Summit fans, you'll need to read some of the reviews/questions to see if there are measurements sprinkled in there.

There are other specs of fans that affect airflow: The angle of twist to the blade arms, the width of the blade, and the curvature (scoop) of the blade. Aftermarket fan companies don't provide those specs as most folks wouldn't know how to navigate all that data. So you'll just need to assume that more blades = more airflow.

Be aware that more airflow usually means more noise and more HP consumed to drive the fan.

 

[fury fan]

It's an infrared thermometer that measures surface temperature. The word "laser" is a misnomer. The laser just serves as a pointer.

Lot's of cheap ones around. Just keep in mind they measure the temperature on the outside surface and the water inside could be different. Sometimes it's not quite as accurate on shiny surfaces too. It can tell you a lot though. Somewhere, I have a picture of me calibrating one we used for advertising back when I worked for a living. (Actually it's just my arm LOL).

That's good clarification, thanks!

 

[Gerald Morris]

Thanks Gerald,

I've also been told by numerous shroud dealers that it's impossible to match up a shroud with a specific OEM model number.

SO, with everyone's good advice on here I'm just going to start with a larger, 6-blade fixed to replace the 4 blade and a bottle of water wetter. That's something even I can handle and my wife will appreciate the $$$ savings. Especially since this was only first on my list of spring fixes. LOL

Mathilda came with a 6 blade rigid 18 inch fan, which moved plenty enough air through the 2524984 radiator sans shroud. I still say shrouds are over-rated, and that if on a budget, a $50 electric pusher from A-Team delivers better cool per $. I run nearly half the year down here without ANY mech fan loading down my engine, and it runs COOL until mid-April to May 1st, depending on the seasonal weather.

The rigid 6 blade fan should move enough air, provided you have a decent radiator. If you still suffer from over-heating then, you need to clean out the cooling system, and look into how well sealed your fuel/air system is.

And don't contribute to the coffers of Cold Ca$e. They don't deserve our money.

 

[Dads300]

A factory 7 blade direct drive fan will help. My brother and I used those exclusively when we were daily driving our old cars 30 years ago in Sacramento heat. I like direct drive fans for their simplicity, only a missing belt will stop it from turning.
Travis..

 

[Zaggart]

So I decided to replace the water pump and thermostat while I was screwing around with the fan since it was so close by. I could tell from the discoloration/corrosion of the pump housing that it had... seen some things even though the impeller looked ok. I was also incorrect about the t-stat, the installed one was a 160 but I still swapped it with the new 180 which stove tested fine. I picked up the Derale 17318 fan that Fury Fan mentioned but I'm waiting on a shorter spacer since the pitch is more severe. Even with the old fan I'm already seeing what I'd consider more "normal" gauge movement now so I'm optimistic she won't creep as much at idle when it's 90 out. I also didn't realize the cap gasket was shot until I checked levels for the last time and a chunk fell into the radiator. Luckily I was able to dig it out and grab a new cap on my test trip.

A huge thank you to everyone for helping me see the big picture and save some $$$ over a new rad.

The one thing that I couldn't find mentioned ANYWHERE, even the FSM were the heater hose adapters. I managed to find a couple at Advance Auto with the proper thread size (but not the same length as the originals) and hoped for the best. That was a bit of a sphincter-tightener for a noob until I could verify it held water. Whew!

 

[3175375]

So I decided to replace the water pump and thermostat while I was screwing around with the fan since it was so close by. I could tell from the discoloration/corrosion of the pump housing that it had... seen some things even though the impeller looked ok. I was also incorrect about the t-stat, the installed one was a 160 but I still swapped it with the new 180 which stove tested fine. I picked up the Derale 17318 fan that Fury Fan mentioned but I'm waiting on a shorter spacer since the pitch is more severe. Even with the old fan I'm already seeing what I'd consider more "normal" gauge movement now so I'm optimistic she won't creep as much at idle when it's 90 out. I also didn't realize the cap gasket was shot until I checked levels for the last time and a chunk fell into the radiator. Luckily I was able to dig it out and grab a new cap on my test trip.

A huge thank you to everyone for helping me see the big picture and save some $$$ over a new rad.

The one thing that I couldn't find mentioned ANYWHERE, even the FSM were the heater hose adapters. I managed to find a couple at Advance Auto with the proper thread size (but not the same length as the originals) and hoped for the best. That was a bit of a sphincter-tightener for a noob until I could verify it held water. Whew!

You also might want to check the radiator cap to verify the pressure relief function.
They don’t last forever and I have replaced several in my fleet.

 

[Gerald Morris]

So I decided to replace the water pump and thermostat while I was screwing around with the fan since it was so close by. I could tell from the discoloration/corrosion of the pump housing that it had... seen some things even though the impeller looked ok. I was also incorrect about the t-stat, the installed one was a 160 but I still swapped it with the new 180 which stove tested fine. I picked up the Derale 17318 fan that Fury Fan mentioned but I'm waiting on a shorter spacer since the pitch is more severe. Even with the old fan I'm already seeing what I'd consider more "normal" gauge movement now so I'm optimistic she won't creep as much at idle when it's 90 out. I also didn't realize the cap gasket was shot until I checked levels for the last time and a chunk fell into the radiator. Luckily I was able to dig it out and grab a new cap on my test trip.

A huge thank you to everyone for helping me see the big picture and save some $$$ over a new rad.

The one thing that I couldn't find mentioned ANYWHERE, even the FSM were the heater hose adapters. I managed to find a couple at Advance Auto with the proper thread size (but not the same length as the originals) and hoped for the best. That was a bit of a sphincter-tightener for a noob until I could verify it held water. Whew!

You did wisely and well. I like doing the pump when doing a T-stat, or vice versa. Try to score a Robert Shaw for yourself next time you shop for a thermostat. The Mr. Gasket copies do decent too. Glad to see you stove tested what you got. All this cooling apparatus works together to cool that hot iron motor. A general rule for this and pumps, slower flow for AC loaded engines, faster flow for AC free systems. Note the shapes of the pumps too. You'll figure it out, hopefully without any major disasters.

 

[fury fan]

The one thing that I couldn't find mentioned ANYWHERE, even the FSM were the heater hose adapters. I managed to find a couple at Advance Auto with the proper thread size (but not the same length as the originals) and hoped for the best. That was a bit of a sphincter-tightener for a noob until I could verify it held water. Whew!

Not necessarily for Zaggart, but for anyone:
My single experience with parts-store adapters was that they are thinner than factory and corroded. The ones I got had a hex molded into them for wrench or socket tightening (which is convenient!).
I don't remember what brand, or how long on the car, but I do remember the next time I removed the heater hoses that these fittings were on last legs.

Ever since, I get plumbing pipe nipples of the appropriate thread/length, cut to length, and drill 2 holes near the top, 180deg apart, sized to snugly fit a #2 Phillips screwdriver.
Use the screwdriver to install it, although it's mostly there for removal years later.

Yes - you could drill it at removal time, but is much easier to do it in a vise, not in the car. And no shavings enter your cooling system.
Yes - there's no barbed/rolled edge to help retain the hose against. But cooling system pressure is 16 lbs max, and you can make the fitting a little taller if you want to double-clamp it.
I've done this on a few cars over the last ~20 years and never had a problem.
And if you are worried about hose blow-off, you can always run a lighter-pressure radiator cap - your old heater core will be grateful.


It's definitely more useful on bigblocks where the fittings are in the front cover, which is an extra item to R&R, vs a smallblock.

 

[Gerald Morris]

It's definitely more useful on bigblocks where the fittings are in the front cover, which is an extra item to R&R, vs a smallblock.

3/8" brass nipples work very well for the heater hoses. I prefer them vastly over the soft aluminum nipples which have flooded the Net. Caveat Emptor, or, Cooling Jacket Empty.......

 

[fury fan]

Ah, yes, I had forgotten about those. And they have a hex and barbs built in.

 

[Big_John]

Here's a set that includes the bypass hose fittings.

Heater Hose Nipple Kit Fits 64-67 68 69 273 318 340 Satellite Dart Charger Mopar | eBay

 

[Gerald Morris]

Here's a set that includes the bypass hose fittings.

Heater Hose Nipple Kit Fits 64-67 68 69 273 318 340 Satellite Dart Charger Mopar | eBay

The hardware pictured looks alright. If I didn't have such a horde of opld brass fittings, I'd try it. I see Van has some nipples for us too.