68 Polara 383 Heads

GMPolara

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After much ado, changing water pumps, putting new fan clutches in, pulling block plug... it's time to consider the heads. I pulled of the radiator cap and observed the coolant. Right away I could see bubbles and foaming. My guess is that there's a crack in one of the heads. Currently, the car has these heads = 2951250 – 1968, 440 B/RB-series big-block, 2.08/1.74 valves, 79.5cc

Should i find it's only a head gasket I'll just plane them and get a valve job. Otherwise, I may need new heads. This is where I'd like some advice. Would it be better to find old usable heads or buy new aluminum heads, which appear to be plentiful? Also, I have my eyes on some used heads but they're from a different years 383. These= 2406516 – 1964-1967, 361/383 B/RB-series big-block, 2.08/1.60 valves, 73.5cc, 300L
Would these be usable? Thanks!

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You cannot use pre-1968 heads as Chrysler made a change from open to closed heads or vice versa. If you want to go with used heads, get later ones that have hardened valve seals. Hopefully it's just a blown head gasket. If you have a cracked head(s) I have a pair of 1968 heads that need to be rebuilt that I would sell you. Depending on what part of SC you are in, we might not be too far apart. Nice looking Polara.
 
I doubt you have a cracked head uncommon on these. Are you losing any coolant? Coolant in the oil? Any cylinders missing? Remove all spark plugs and is any of them very much cleaner than the others?

Is the 383 a 2 bbl or 4 bbl?
 
I'm kinda doubting the head is cracked too. Bad gasket, yes, that's quite possible.

I would stay away from the early (pre 67) heads you mention. The closed chamber will raise your compression ration and with today's gas, that's not a great idea.

I'd pull them off and have them checked. A good shop can magnaflux the heads and tell you if there is a crack. While they are off, a valve job and check for flatness is a good idea. Using a new composition gasket will knock the compression down very slightly, but again, octane rating at the pump seems to be going down, so that might be a good thing.

You can do hardened valve seats, but here's what I've figured out over the years. First is the Mopar heads have more nickel in them than other brands. That makes for a harder valve seat to begin with. If you aren't driving the car every day and putting a lot of miles on it, I don't think the hardened valve seats will be needed. That's just my opinion though... Hardened seats won't hurt and really aren't crazy expensive, so your choice.
 
You cannot use pre-1968 heads as Chrysler made a change from open to closed heads or vice versa. If you want to go with used heads, get later ones that have hardened valve seals. Hopefully it's just a blown head gasket. If you have a cracked head(s) I have a pair of 1968 heads that need to be rebuilt that I would sell you. Depending on what part of SC you are in, we might not be too far apart. Nice looking Polara.
Thanks!!! Great info.
 
I’ve only heard of the heads cracking if the motor has been overheated a bunch and/or they’ve been heavily ported. I agree with the others, it’s probably a head gasket instead, not the heads.
 
Thanks for all the replies. As for the symptoms, there's no major indicators. It has no oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. The exhaust isn't white and it doesn't smell odd either. It also idles strong.

There are some potentially related symptoms. The car has an intermediate hesitation feeling while driving. The car also has a loud hum going down the road too. I think it may be the transmission.

The one thing that set my mind on the heads was the frothy bubbling coolant in the radiator.

Historywise. I bought this car down in GA last December. It was in need of allot of tlc. It appeared to have sat unregistered since 1998, 25 years. Judging from the title info I'm the 3rd owner. Second, by family. Since the first two owners shared a last name. I've easily put a few grand into it this year. I've replaced the carpet, rebuilt the heater box, installed all new ignition components w HEI, restored the dash, put all new AC components on the car, new wiring/bulk head connector, master cylinder, timing chain, new Carburetor... I intend on making it fully road worthy and functional.

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You can probably rent a kit to check on the bubbling in the coolant, to check for combustion gasses in the coolant. A simple kit that some NAPA stores rent, where you take a rubber plug with a pipe that goes into a larger container of fluid. The rubber plug fits the radiator filler neck. If combustion gases are present, the fluid changes colors. A "one use" situation which might (or used to cost) about $50.00 or so. Might be worth checking out.

Congrats on the work you've completed on the car. It'll be great when it's all done!

CBODY67
 
Everyone always talks about hardened valve seats and it is a good idea if you have stock valves because without the protection of lead in the gas the valve and seat can start to deteriorate each other. The cheaper solution is to switch to stainless steel valves and leave the seats alone. As long as one side is hard( valve or seat) you will not have a problem with unleaded fuel. Back when stainless valves were expensive and machine work was cheap it made sense to use hardened seats but now you can get stainless valves less than $300.
 
As to the hard seats, in about 1974 I found an article in "Automotive Industries" (a Chilton company) which Chrysler had did regarding induction hardened valve seats on a 440 Town & Country wagon with the HD trailer package. Hooked to a max-weight-limit travel trailer.

Prior to 1974, Chrysler recommended one tank in three tanks of gas to be low-lead or full-leaded fuel, for valve seat protection. 1974 being the first production year for induction hardened valve seats.

What they did was put the car and trailer on their test track to see how long it would run on pure unleaded fuel. When they started, it was a new vehicle. So it's entire life had that trailer hooked to the back of it. They did maintenance on the engine and such, while recording its performance.

By about 7500 miles or so, valve seat erosion had become significant and the test was ended a while later as the heads were past "junk" value at that time and the engine was not running nearly as good as it had when new.

In any wear situation, there is always a "sacrificial item" in the mix. One which is easily changed when worn as the other side of the wear interface is retouched for more life.

My late machine shop operative told me that valves "burn" when the guide wear increases to where the valve does not fully seat when it closes, but can seat just a bit cock-eyed to start with. As things progress, the valve does not fully seat and heat cannot be transferred from the valve head to the seat, so the area which does not fully seat remans too hot, and starts eroding. As the erosion progresses, then hot exhaust gases are no longer sealed and start to act like a blow torch, eroding the valve edge and valve seat in the process. Then the rest is history and needs repairs. As the Chrysler test was destruction-durability in nature, that's what ruined the cyl head valve seats.

As the valve guides play an important role, keeping them non-worn from the side loads placed on the valve stems as the valve is pushed open and then closes. To me, roller-tipped rocker arms can greatly diminish those side loads. Then, combine that with the bronze heil-coil style guide inner surfaces, and a lifetime guide should result with whatever valve you might desire to run. Add quality-installed hard seats and the heads can have a much longer service life.

Just my observations and thoughts. YMMV
CBODY67
 
I see you have a 383 2 bbl. It wouldn't bother anything to put 516 heads on that engine. And the hesitation is pretty common on that unit. Have you advanced the timing, they don't have much for compression ratio. Make sure the accelerator pump is working good.

Sitting for 25 years and now the coolant is bubbly and frothy? Have your flushed the cooling system? It does a much better job of you remove the screw in plugs in both sides of the block and rinse it out. If factory plugs they use a 9/16" socket, use a 6 point and a 1/2 " drive breaker bar to get them out.
 
I see you have a 383 2 bbl. It wouldn't bother anything to put 516 heads on that engine. And the hesitation is pretty common on that unit. Have you advanced the timing, they don't have much for compression ratio. Make sure the accelerator pump is working good.

Sitting for 25 years and now the coolant is bubbly and frothy? Have your flushed the cooling system? It does a much better job of you remove the screw in plugs in both sides of the block and rinse it out. If factory plugs they use a 9/16" socket, use a 6 point and a 1/2 " drive breaker bar to get them out.
Yes, on all accounts. Its been given a few flushes with drain plugs pulled. It's also got a brand new carburetor. The hesitation does get much less detectable with the timing up at 22 degrees.
 
Good heavens! 22*BTDC! That could indicate that your "hesitation" is from a rich condition in that one rpm range. How far open are the throttle blades at hot base idle?

What about if you decrease the initial to 15* and set the idle speed at the factory spec hot base idle speed?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
22*BTDC! That could indicate that your "hesitation" i
Good heavens! 22*BTDC! That could indicate that your "hesitation" is from a rich condition in that one rpm range. How far open are the throttle blades at hot base idle?

What about if you decrease the initial to 15* and set the idle speed at the factory spec hot base idle speed?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
I've been playing with the total timing method. It's something I picked up on Youtube recently. It seems to make the car spring to action way quicker. Since the hesitation went away, I just stuck with it.
I'll have to check my throttle blades. I'm guessing they are about half way in. I was taught that you run them in until idle starts to get rough. Then I back them off a hair. If you know a better way, I'd love to hear it. I'm here to learn. :)
 
"Throttle blades" are not the same as "idle mixture screws".

The "thinner" the charge that goes into the cylinders is, where "thinner" = less dense. it takes more time for the mixture to light-off and burn by the time it gets near TDC, so generally, more initial timing acts better than less timing might. Just like a combustion chamber that has better burn characteristics will need less total advance than one which is not quite as efficient. The normal Chrysler chamber, which is similar to another popular V-8, takes about 38* BTDC total whereas that same popular V-8s sibling W-motor takes more like 31* total, for example.

If you read some of the carb tuning books, they claim that you can get a smooth idle with the timing advanced at idle, yet have an off-idle hesitation. This is due to the idle transition ports not having enough of them exposed below the throttle plates at hot base idle. Ideally, about .040". Less that than, off-idle hesitation. More than that, off-idle hesitation/flat spot. OEM carbs are set-up for that spec, but aftermarket carbs might not be and have more lee-way. Or perhaps the aftermarket carbs have a bit more feed fuel in the transition ports than the OEMs do? Not sure.

This is the basis for my suggesting a more normal (for back then) 12.5* BTDC initial timing setting. Which should put the OEM carb's throttle plates in the place they were designed to be in, or near it, to decrease/minimize any off-idle drivability issues. At the lower initial timing, to maintain the spec rpm (probably about 600rpm in "N"?), the throttle blades will be open a bit more to expose a bit more of the lower part of the transition ports, so they come online as designed.

As to setting the hot base idle speed mixture, with the idle mixture screws lightly seated and then turned 1.5 turns out, each, set the 600rpm idle speed. Then, fine tune the mixture screws, individually, to seek the highest rpm with each screw. If the hot base idle speed might increase, then adjust the idle speed screw to get the rpm lower. Cycle repeat with the mixture screws. At that highest rpm, the manifold vac should be maxed, too.

At this point, you can verify "lean best idle" by carefully turning each mixture screw "in" until you get a 20rpm drop, then go back to the prior "max speed" setting, each one that way. To me, this is a more accurate method than just using a vac gauge alone. I found the vac gauge method to have a bit too much "margin for error" for me, as to getting things "just right".

Then, with an assistant to help, have them firmly apply the foot brake and shift the trans into "D". Walk around to the exh pipe and check for smooothness of the gas flow. If you can feel the pulses, increase the rpm about 25rpm. If it is already one smooth, gentle flow (but HOT), that's fine as is. This step can work better on a single exh system, obviously.

This "hesitation" you are speaking of, is it when coming off-idle slowly, with a 1/3 throttle punch, a 3/4 throttle off-idle punch, or WOT off-idle? At our local 1000' elevation, the normal=spec accel pump setting seemed to work better for me.

These things work for me. Your experiences might vary.
CBODY67
 
How many miles on it? Maybe the timing chain is loose so now has retarded cam timing, why it likes 22 degrees spark timing
 
I only recently had time to mess with it. I pulled the heads off.I'm getting ready to bring them to the machine shop. I plan on having the valves ground, hardened seats installed, milled flat, and checked over from problems. Part of me just wants to pull the motor and rebuild it. But it made no bad sounds from the bottom and so I'll probably leave it.
 
Just my $.02, unless your going to drive the pants off the car, hardened seats are a added expense you can do without.
 
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