727 Kick down issue.

[Sixpactogo]

I have a new development with my 65 Sport Fury. It seems to shift properly up through the gears and does not slip. Now if I am cruising at say 50 mph, and floor it to kick in the passing gear, it doesn't kick down into a lower gear. It seems to go into neutral until I let up then it goes back into 3rd gear. Anyone ever ran into that situation before? First time for me. Only thing I changed was my pan gasket was leaking and I had a new deep pan with a drain plug in it. I added the spacer and a new filter and put it back together. I can't see how that could have caused my issue. Is it an adjustment issue?

 

[66 Monaco 500 365]

To me, that sounds like your 2nd gear band is slipping, it works OK at moderate throttle, but at WOT it slips.it could be out of adjustment or your fluid level is low. make sure to check the level in neutral
My$.02

 

[413]

Did you put a gasket between the filter extension and valve body?

Did you check the ATF idling in neutral? Not park. Did you check it again after driving?

 

[Sixpactogo]

Did you put a gasket between the filter extension and valve body?

Did you check the ATF idling in neutral? Not park. Did you check it again after driving?

Now that I think about it, there is an O ring that goes between the extension and valve body. I was sure I put it in but maybe it slipped out of place. That is starting to make sense why it is acting up. Guess I will be dropping the pan again. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Sixpactogo]

To me, that sounds like your 2nd gear band is slipping, it works OK at moderate throttle, but at WOT it slips.it could be out of adjustment or your fluid level is low. make sure to check the level in neutral
My$.02

It shifts up fine at moderate throttle. Only time I have noticed any issue is last week-end I was passing a slow moving car on a 2 lane highway and when it went to passing gear, it went into neutral. When I lifted, it went back into gear. I'm going to check the fluid level again. Have not done so since I installed the new pan and filter.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Just now checked the fluid level. Right on the full mark hot and in neutral. Only thing I can think of now is what 413 mentioned about the gasket above the extension. It must have slipped out of place. That is the only thing that makes sense to me. I will report what I find in the next few days. Got other irons in the fire for tomorrow.

 

[Gerald Morris]

It shifts up fine at moderate throttle. Only time I have noticed any issue is last week-end I was passing a slow moving car on a 2 lane highway and when it went to passing gear, it went into neutral. When I lifted, it went back into gear. I'm going to check the fluid level again. Have not done so since I installed the new pan and filter.

ALWAYS CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL AFTER DOING ANYTHING TO THE TRANNY PAN!!! You're WAY low on fluid. I suspect the TC is starved. Follow the FSM:

Warm the engine up to running temp in NEUTRAL, or, better yet, Drive with the parking brake fully engaged and a couple chocks up front. THEN, check your fluid level. Make sure you're on level ground when so doing.

 

[Sixpactogo]

ALWAYS CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL AFTER DOING ANYTHING TO THE TRANNY PAN!!! You're WAY low on fluid. I suspect the TC is starved. Follow the FSM:

Warm the engine up to running temp in NEUTRAL, or, better yet, Drive with the parking brake fully engaged and a couple chocks up front. THEN, check your fluid level. Make sure you're on level ground when so doing.

Read post 6

 

[Gerald Morris]

Read post 6

Gotcha. Good.

 

[Just Carbs]

The front direct clutch is releasing as it should, but the front second gear band is not applying.
Or the rear clutch is releasing, it should not be releasing.
We need to know what happens at light throttle at 20 mph with the gear selector in Drive and the trans has made the shift into 3rd gear and "then" you floor it.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I guess I can go out and do some more testing before I drop the pan and check the extension gasket. If it in fact is something else causing the issue, it will more than likely be coming out for a rebuild. The last rebuild was in 1985 so it has paid its dues even though it don't get hot-rodded as much as it used to. I am hoping it will be the extension spacer causing the problem since everything was fine until I added that.
Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[413]

Why drive it more? It may be starving for fluid. Check the extension and gasket first not last.

Does your fluid extension have two fluid pickup holes? Did you use a filter with two fluid pickup holes? A 1965 needs this. The more common filters only have one fluid pickup hole.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I don't recall ever seeing a filter with the two holes. I am positive the extension has only one hole and one O ring. Pretty sure the filter I took off and the new one I installed were the single hole filters. It is raining today so I am in the process of draining my trans as we speak. So.....Am I to understand I need a two hole filter? No one ever mentioned that to me before. If so, maybe I need to go back to my stock pan if I can find the correct filter.

Update. Just checked my FSM and it shows the filter and gasket with the two holes. It appears I have the wrong filter on my transmission. The filter I used is labeled for use in 1960-97 A500, A518, A727 and A904. Guess they are full of Scat. I did find the correct filter (Pn: 2466849) but it looks like they don't provide the gasket. (Pn: 2205202)
At any rate, Thank you 413 for bringing me up to speed on what my problem is for sure. I don't see an extension for use with the deep pan so I guess I will be going back to the stock pan.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Well, as it turns out, I need a different filter than what I installed. The correct filter has two holes where the more popular one has one hole. That said, the deep pan and extension I installed have to go. I ordered the correct filter with the two holes but apparently the gasket is not provided with them. Must be a modification or something. I'm positive there was no gasket on the filter I removed. Anyway, here is the correct filter from WIX. They provide a new pan gasket but no filter gasket.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176347731954

 

[Sixpactogo]

Why drive it more? It may be starving for fluid. Check the extension and gasket first not last.

Does your fluid extension have two fluid pickup holes? Did you use a filter with two fluid pickup holes? A 1965 needs this. The more common filters only have one failed pickup hole.

View attachment 675958

The picture of your filter appears to have an impression from either the valve body or a gasket. Can you verify if the gasket is still needed? I saw a picture of a factory styled filter but it looked like it had different material in the gasket area. Your filter looks like the one I ordered from WIX but it doesn't include a gasket.

 

[413]

Better check before you buy that eBay filter. It says it fits 62-72, and the chart for what it fits starts with 1974,

To be clear the cable shift 727 from 1962-65 needs a filter with two holes. 1966 and up only needs one hole.

The gasket is needed between the extension and the valve body only. There is no gasket at the filter on a stock application.

What you see on that filter in the photo is a mark from and extension for a deep pan.

It's odd you filter showed 60-97 because aluminum TF started in 1962. Cast iron TF didn't use this filter style.

 

[Sixpactogo]

Better check before you buy that eBay filter. It says it fits 62-72, and the chart for what it fits starts with 1974,

To be clear the cable shift 727 from 1962-65 needs a filter with two holes. 1966 and up only needs one hole.

The gasket is needed between the extension and the valve body only. There is no gasket at the filter on a stock application.

What you see on that filter in the photo is a mark from and extension for a deep pan.

It's odd you filter showed 60-97 because aluminum TF started in 1962. Cast iron TF didn't use this filter style.

Where did you get the deep pan extension for the two hole filter in your picture? All I can find are the one hole extensions like the one I installed on my transmission causing my kick down issue. I have decided to go back to my stock pan with the correct filter. The main reason I installed the deep pan was because it had a drain plug. Now, so does my stock pan.

 

[413]

I've had it for years, unsure where to get one. Call A&A trans

Where did you get the deep pan extension for the two hole filter in your picture?

 

[Sixpactogo]

I've had it for years, unsure where to get one. Call A&A trans

No need. I was just wondering. Everything I can find now is the newer style with one hole. Like I said, I'm going back to stock. Thanks for your help.

 

[493mike]

OEM does not use a filter gasket. Add a extra tube (weld) to the spacer and use the deep pan if you like.
Mike