A Wrapup of Goodbye and Good Riddance

[customsportsman]

Hi everyone,
I wanted to share what I have learned over the last six weeks while working on my 1969 Fury III 318 droptop, and share some direct comparisons. I will try, but will most likely fail, to keep this short...

1) The previous owner had the car changed over from manual drum to SSBC discs up front, and a LEEDS power brake booster.

a) I think the system is garbage. On a normal day, stops fine. Panic situation, I'm going into whatever is in front of me. The leeds chinesium booster is junk also. Pedal does not return to full up position. LEEDS sold me a new booster and the problem persists. The system just cannot stop the mass of a C body.

b) I completely ripped out this SSBC/LEEDs system, and sourced ALL of the parts from a 1972 New Yorker disc system. I rebuilt the calipers, had the booster rebuilt, new pads, new master cylinder, new rotors, and added the 1972
donor brake pedal arm, and proportioning valve setup. Going from the SSBC/LEEDS system to the Mopar system is a 100% NIGHT AND DAY difference!
This was WELL WORTH THE CHANGEOVER!

c) IF you are thinking of changing your drums to disc, I think you should save your money and not use an aftermarket system. Tune those manual drums,
use common sense, and if you are in the right place at the right time, get the Mopar system

2) New leaf springs: I replaced the leaf springs with ESPO 6 leaf spring sets. Another night and day difference. Easy swap, and the car sits better, and rides
WAY better!

3) Front suspension:

a) Replace ALL OF IT! Do that lower control arm bushing also. That is probably the most overlooked part, because replacing that part can be labor
intensive. The job is not that bad, and the results are well worth the rewards. I had the car aligned, and even with 3 degrees of positive caster, the car is still a little wandery. I had the steering box rebuilt too. I THINK the issue is that everything is still new and tight, and I tend to compare the Fury to my
daily driver (well taken care of 2007 Crown Victoria), and they are not the same at all.

b) I bought the complete kit from Craig @ Mobileparts. Using the NOS good stuff that Craig provided was another good investment as compared to some of
the off-the-shelf stuff available today.

I hope this helps someone.
However, If anybody wants the LEEDS/SSBC system, just because they have NOTHING, let me know. I wouldn't recommend using it, but someone else may have their mind set on using it.

Now, I just have to change the failed axle seal that I found while changing the leaf springs, and I will be good to go for a while!

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Glad to hear of your successes, sorry to hear that you had to do it by finding out that the aftermarket systems don't add up to what the factory engineered. Enjoy your car!

 

[commando1]

All that you wrote is what several guys have been saying for years.
Next week somebody AGAIN will post a thread about wanting to use an aftermarket disc brake kit.

 

[customsportsman]

Hey Ross,

I didn't not put the aftermarket system on the car. The car came with it.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

I know that - it's just a drag for you that to find out regardless. Comiserating, not judging - you made the right choice to go factory.

 

[413]

Congrats! Sounds like your car is doing much better now.
Your car should drive great now, maybe the toe is off? What size and type of wheels and tires are on it now?

Don't commpare an old car to a late model car with rack and pinion steering and variable rate springs.

 

[customsportsman]

Hey Commando1,
You are correct. However, I went back-to-back on the disc setups. I hadn't seen anyone do that. I also have seen many individual posts about all three topics that I touched on. I was simply trying to everything into one little note.
Next time, just skip rather than be a troll.

 

[Big_John]

I think the system is garbage.

I have bookmarked your post and will probably refer people when they start asking about it.

All that you wrote is what several guys have been saying for years.
Next week somebody AGAIN will post a thread about wanting to use an aftermarket disc brake kit.

Yep!

Hey Commando1,
You are correct. However, I went back-to-back on the disc setups. I hadn't seen anyone do that. I also have seen many individual posts about all three topics that I touched on. I was simply trying to everything into one little note.
Next time, just skip rather than be a troll.

He's not being a troll here. He said what was on my mind too and it's nothing against you. In fact, just the opposite... I really dislike that you've had to go through this... But I'm also glad that you have documented this and it will help the next person.

We go through this about every other week... This and the C2C junk patch panels must come up in Google searches when a new C-body owner starts looking at brakes and sheet metal.

 

[imperialman]

All that you wrote is what several guys have been saying for years.
Next week somebody AGAIN will post a thread about wanting to use an aftermarket disc brake kit.

I'm not sure if it was here or on another FB sight someone was bound and determined to change out his Imperial brakes to disc. Ultimately he was looking for confirmation for doing it though every sane argument against it he ignored.

 

[Big_John]

Ultimately he was looking for confirmation for doing it though every sane argument against it he ignored.

I think that happens a lot. Some guys need the approval of others even when they are screwing up. Once someone, no matter who, gives their blessing, all is good.

 

[73Coupe]

Some guys need the approval of others even when they are screwing up. Once someone, no matter who, gives their blessing, all is good.

I'm tempted to print this in large font, add "- Big_John" below, and frame it.

Excellent sir.

 

[Big_John]

I'm tempted to print this in large font, add "- Big_John" below, and frame it.

Excellent sir.

 

[Fratzog]

IF you are thinking of changing your drums to disc, I think you should save your money and not use an aftermarket system. Tune those manual drums,
use common sense, and if you are in the right place at the right time, get the Mopar system

Couldn't agree more. Have left the drums on both my old rides with no issues. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[mrfury68]

Great job by you! I would have gone the same route you did.

 

[commando1]

I have bookmarked your post and will probably refer people when they start asking about it.


Yep!


He's not being a troll here. He said what was on my mind too and it's nothing against you. In fact, just the opposite... I really dislike that you've had to go through this... But I'm also glad that you have documented this and it will help the next person.

We go through this about every other week... This and the C2C junk patch panels must come up in Google searches when a new C-body owner starts looking at brakes and sheet metal.

Thank you, John.
Was not all trolling. Just telling you that you have much company on this so don't feel that bad.

 

[Just Carbs]

Hi everyone,
I wanted to share what I have learned over the last six weeks while working on my 1969 Fury III 318 droptop, and share some direct comparisons. I will try, but will most likely fail, to keep this short...

1) The previous owner had the car changed over from manual drum to SSBC discs up front, and a LEEDS power brake booster.

a) I think the system is garbage. On a normal day, stops fine. Panic situation, I'm going into whatever is in front of me. The leeds chinesium booster is junk also. Pedal does not return to full up position. LEEDS sold me a new booster and the problem persists. The system just cannot stop the mass of a C body.

b) I completely ripped out this SSBC/LEEDs system, and sourced ALL of the parts from a 1972 New Yorker disc system. I rebuilt the calipers, had the booster rebuilt, new pads, new master cylinder, new rotors, and added the 1972
donor brake pedal arm, and proportioning valve setup. Going from the SSBC/LEEDS system to the Mopar system is a 100% NIGHT AND DAY difference!
This was WELL WORTH THE CHANGEOVER!

c) IF you are thinking of changing your drums to disc, I think you should save your money and not use an aftermarket system. Tune those manual drums,
use common sense, and if you are in the right place at the right time, get the Mopar system

2) New leaf springs: I replaced the leaf springs with ESPO 6 leaf spring sets. Another night and day difference. Easy swap, and the car sits better, and rides
WAY better!

3) Front suspension:

a) Replace ALL OF IT! Do that lower control arm bushing also. That is probably the most overlooked part, because replacing that part can be labor
intensive. The job is not that bad, and the results are well worth the rewards. I had the car aligned, and even with 3 degrees of positive caster, the car is still a little wandery. I had the steering box rebuilt too. I THINK the issue is that everything is still new and tight, and I tend to compare the Fury to my
daily driver (well taken care of 2007 Crown Victoria), and they are not the same at all.

b) I bought the complete kit from Craig @ Mobileparts. Using the NOS good stuff that Craig provided was another good investment as compared to some of
the off-the-shelf stuff available today.

I hope this helps someone.
However, If anybody wants the LEEDS/SSBC system, just because they have NOTHING, let me know. I wouldn't recommend using it, but someone else may have their mind set on using it.

Now, I just have to change the failed axle seal that I found while changing the leaf springs, and I will be good to go for a while!

Wandering.
Just my experience here.
I've never found a new steering part to be tight. When I install them and turn them individually, they always turn freely.
I had to learn the details of the steering boxes just as I had to learn the cause and effect of the steering geometry and alignment setup. In almost all cases the "stock steering box reaction springs" provided the best driving experience regarding straight line stability. The firm feeling reactions spring are at odds with the left/right centering steering valve technology that sits on top of the steering box.
The factory service manual provides very specific, detailed and intuitive procedures for adjusting the steering box during reassembly. None of these adjustments "that are absolutely required" during assembly can be corrected after assembly.
The box isn't going to perform as desired in a straight line with very little correction input needed if it's not assembled with great attention paid to the factory setup, no matter what the external sector and worm shaft adjustments are.
So, what I'm saying is that a rebuilt steering box doesn't necessarily mean a good steering box. And a box with substitute parts that were intended to give it a FIRM FEEL may render it unacceptable for highway cruising.

 

[gus chiggins]

Hi everyone,
I wanted to share what I have learned over the last six weeks while working on my 1969 Fury III 318 droptop, and share some direct comparisons. I will try, but will most likely fail, to keep this short...

1) The previous owner had the car changed over from manual drum to SSBC discs up front, and a LEEDS power brake booster.

a) I think the system is garbage. On a normal day, stops fine. Panic situation, I'm going into whatever is in front of me. The leeds chinesium booster is junk also. Pedal does not return to full up position. LEEDS sold me a new booster and the problem persists. The system just cannot stop the mass of a C body.

b) I completely ripped out this SSBC/LEEDs system, and sourced ALL of the parts from a 1972 New Yorker disc system. I rebuilt the calipers, had the booster rebuilt, new pads, new master cylinder, new rotors, and added the 1972
donor brake pedal arm, and proportioning valve setup. Going from the SSBC/LEEDS system to the Mopar system is a 100% NIGHT AND DAY difference!
This was WELL WORTH THE CHANGEOVER!

c) IF you are thinking of changing your drums to disc, I think you should save your money and not use an aftermarket system. Tune those manual drums,
use common sense, and if you are in the right place at the right time, get the Mopar system

2) New leaf springs: I replaced the leaf springs with ESPO 6 leaf spring sets. Another night and day difference. Easy swap, and the car sits better, and rides
WAY better!

3) Front suspension:

a) Replace ALL OF IT! Do that lower control arm bushing also. That is probably the most overlooked part, because replacing that part can be labor
intensive. The job is not that bad, and the results are well worth the rewards. I had the car aligned, and even with 3 degrees of positive caster, the car is still a little wandery. I had the steering box rebuilt too. I THINK the issue is that everything is still new and tight, and I tend to compare the Fury to my
daily driver (well taken care of 2007 Crown Victoria), and they are not the same at all.

b) I bought the complete kit from Craig @ Mobileparts. Using the NOS good stuff that Craig provided was another good investment as compared to some of
the off-the-shelf stuff available today.

I hope this helps someone.
However, If anybody wants the LEEDS/SSBC system, just because they have NOTHING, let me know. I wouldn't recommend using it, but someone else may have their mind set on using it.

Now, I just have to change the failed axle seal that I found while changing the leaf springs, and I will be good to go for a while!

I bought a disc conversion kit from the Ramman, I don't know if he's still around, he uses Chrysler stuff, granted I have a B body, and the kit uses everything from 1973 A body, spindles, calipers, rotors are from 1976 cordoba. I never trusted ssb, or leeds, or any other company that uses chinese junk. He was a little pricey, which was fine, I did not want to go cheap, I always get bitten if I do.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

he uses Chrysler stuff, granted I have a B body, and the kit uses everything from 1973 A body, spindles, calipers, rotors are from 1976 cordoba

This is the Disc-O-Tech article from Erhernberg (spelling). He has rehashed this time and time again. It is a great set-up for a A,B,or E body, does not really apply to C bodies, parts do not interchange.

 

[gus chiggins]

This is the Disc-O-Tech article from Erhernberg (spelling). He has rehashed this time and time again. It is a great set-up for a A,B,or E body, does not really apply to C bodies, parts do not interchange.

Roger that, I'm not that informed about C barges, but I do like them alot.

 

[LocuMob]

This is the Disc-O-Tech article from Erhernberg (spelling). He has rehashed this time and time again. It is a great set-up for a A,B,or E body, does not really apply to C bodies, parts do not interchange.

I got the parts for my Dart ages ago.