Another 440 rebuild

[Old 66 Yorker]

Ok, so I am going to pull the trigger and put a fresh engine in my 66. While tired I get the impression that for my local cruising I don't need to build a stroker or anything overly fancy. I am also not doing a resto job on the car.

Going with the eddy 750, electronic ignition and a good distributer. So my question would be this...other than those things is there anything that really SHOULD be upgraded or changed on a basically stock build?...other than more chrome than a dentist's office? Love me some chrome..

 

[Cazman]

I thought that the most important aspect for my rebuild was the machining and dimensions. These blocks could be really rough - even from the factory. So, truing everything up (the line bore, cylinder bore with torque plate, decked block, etc) was important for me. Also, the factory compression is often low, so playing with the dimensions (like getting quench) can get you more power and still utilize the gas available these days.

 

[traintech55]

If you still have the factory cylinder heads, you would be wise to have hardened valve seats installed when you do.

 

[440Chrysler]

When I rebuilt my 440, I got the factory heads ported, installed 440 Source roller tip rockers, installed bigger valves (I can pull up the valve sizes if you're interested), installed an edelbrock performer intake, a mild comp cam, had to bore it .060" over to clean the worst bore and matched the others to it, a rebuilt OEM points distributor, and installed new pistons to run 8.5:1 compression to comfortably run pump gas. I got 10 mpg in the mountains of NH.

 

[heyoldguy]

Ok, so I am going to pull the trigger and put a fresh engine in my 66. While tired I get the impression that for my local cruising I don't need to build a stroker or anything overly fancy. I am also not doing a resto job on the car.

Going with the eddy 750, electronic ignition and a good distributer. So my question would be this...other than those things is there anything that really SHOULD be upgraded or changed on a basically stock build?...other than more chrome than a dentist's office? Love me some chrome..

Confusion reigns. Are you rebuilding the '66 engine or putting in another "fresh engine"?

 

[Old 66 Yorker]

I have a 440 out of a 68, paint color was different but should be the same yes? My plan was to do a rebuild on that one and them swap it in. That way my car isn't down because of ripping the heart out of it. I'll get the engine numbers off of both tomorrow morning. Just finished night shift so backside is dragging a bit.

 

[Camshaft]

I am with Cazman on this. The short block and rotating assembly is the basis for everything. Block decked, bored the minimum necessary, new slugs, rings and rods mag checked, everything balanced. I found that by the time my engine builder went through the stock 906 heads I had, valves, locks, retainers, porting, valve seats, machine work, pushrods etc, I would be into them for almost the same price as new stealth heads all done, so that is the way I went. Obviously in any engine build, budget is a consideration also, and as heyoldguy states, is it the original? I did not screw with my 67 TNT, I started with a 70 block. Double roller timing chain is a must, good Melling HV oil pump, fuel pump, and rod. After market intake and carb, ignition upgrades, etc, $$$$ start to climb quick. Good luck!

 

[413]

You don’t automatically need a high volume oil pump and larger valve sizes.

What kind of driving will you do? Are you racing or spending time above 4000 RPM? What rear gears.

go get an oversized straw and drink through it and see what happens, hard to get it going from the start, but it flows more liquid once it’s going. Oversized valve have. a use and a small cam street cruiser isn’t the place.

 

[Camshaft]

I used the Melling HV pump, not the HP, which can suck your pan dry. CG

 

[Davea Lux]

Most of the time you will also find that in addition to hardened valve seats, you will also need to install bronze valve guides. Mopar valve guides wore over time and that problem accelerated with the introduction of unleaded fuels. The factory compression ratio was 10-1, and that is high for today's blended fuels. If you are comfortable running the premium grade of fuel, you can probably get away with a comp ratio of about 9.5-1 maximum. Going to a modern composite head gasket set will drop the comp ratio about a half a point and get you into a range that will support today's blended premium fuel. You would need to adjust the timing, carb jetting and advance settings for ideal performance as today's fuels burn differently that the '66-'68 era leaded fuels. Another option would be to run '66 pistons in the '68 block using the '68 heads. The '66 piston sat lower in the block because the closed chamber head had a smaller combustion dome. Running the '66 piston in the '68 block drops the comp ratio to about 9.0-1 which gives you more leeway on fuel choices. Running the '68 high performance camshaft will give a good boost in performance if run with the buffered valve springs. Line boring and balancing the engine is an integral part of a premium rebuild as noted above. For an otherwise stock street engine, you probably do not need a high volume oil pump. If you want a high volume pump, consideration should be given to installing a 6qt oil pan to avoid sucking the pan dry when the engine is cold. An aftermarket intake such as the 360 Edelbrock will also increase performance as noted above. If you are planning to convert to electronic ignition, the factory electronic conversion was noted for a high degree of reliability. Avoid ChiCom knockoff electronic ignition systems, the electronics are junk and so is the distributor. Any electronic conversion will require the use of an electronic voltage regulator as well.

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

With the Mellings HV oil pump, you have the option of using "stock pressure" or "high presser" springs. 'Stock Pressure" would be just fine for a normal street car that might see some WOT action every so often. If it was good enough to get out of the factory, it should be good enough for on the street, to me, all things considered. PLUS remember that the oil pump is a consumer of engine horsepower. Less pressure = less power draw.

For a milder street engine, the normal valve sizes are just fine. A .060" bigger valve isn't going to make that much extra power, but in a race engine, every horsepower counts, fwiw. The smaller valves (as in 2.08 vs. 2.14) can work better due to higher port velocities at the lower rpms (where MOST people drive). Not to mention the greater amount of "shrouding" with the larger 2.14" intakes, if that might matter. The larger 1.74" exhaust valves (over the 1.60s) is a good upgrade, as you'll have to enlarge the seat area for the hard seats anyway, just cut the exhaust valves for the 1.74" valves at the same time.

Roller-tip rocker arms and bronze heli-coil guide inserts are one of the best ways to do things, to me. The bronze heli-coil inserts are supposed to be a great friction interface with chrome-stem valves, as I understand it.

As mentioned, a quality roller timing chain is a great investment in total engine longevity.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Old 66 Yorker]

I've got 8 of 12 hours left on this shift, first thing home is pulling the engine numbers to find out if there is a difference. Yes, this is a cruising car in town..a bit more vroom vroom would be nice but it's not going to be up against Mel's scary 66 on the quarter.

 

[volksworld]

half the battle is figuring out what condition the one you're rebuilding is in...does it need to be bored?...if so i found on my 73 block that most of the available pistons had compression that was too low or too high...and the only ones i found that worked out in the 9's only came with .990 wrist pins so had to go for rods too...the mopar machine shop i used claimed for how i was using the car replacing the seats wasnt necessary and i went with stainless valves as supposedly seat failures are caused by metal transfer between the seat and valve and stainless valves are less likely to allow this to happen...but everybody has their own opinion

 

[Turboomni]

I used the Melling HV pump, not the HP, which can suck your pan dry.

I thought it was the High Volume pump that could suck your pan dry not the High Pressure.

 

[Camshaft]

 

[Camshaft]

My mistake, looked it up and posted above. Checked my order form and did get the HP pump for my build.

 

[Turboomni]

Whew!!! You scared me a bit because I ordered a High Pressure for my 440 Source stroker build.

 

[Turboomni]

Here is some interesting info from FABO
Quote:
HV: The high volume pump has 20% taller rotors and will pump about 18-20% more volume at a given pressure.
HP: A higher pressure spring in the relief valve will make ANY pump a 'high pressure' pump. There are 2 common springs in the SBM pumps, one at around 55 PSI, and the other at 72 PSI. You can have either spring in either the standard volume or HV pump. Quote.

So I guess the HP pump is a stock pump with a stiffer spring.

High volume vs. high pressure oil pump

 

[CBODY67]

In the 1980s, I heard some "hot rodders" talking and they claimed that the HV + HP spring pump on their Chevy motor "washed out" their main bearings. No more HV pumps for them, they claimed. Must have worked like a caustic pressure washer?

Just some hearsay,
CBODY67

 

[413]

The was a great machine shop owner in
Seattle area that was also the car owner of the 1979 top fuel championship. He said to not use high pressure or hi volume oil pumps in engines that will never be over 6000 RPM.