Brakes: To be disc, or not to be disc

[The Goose]

“1969 Newport with drums.... im WTF, who can say that car is safe. Every thing at road will stop faster. Even that soccer mom front of you with minivan with 48 kids on board does that, before you rear end her and kids....”

That’s why I simply said respect - your - Machinery. I don’t tailgate (good modern disc brakes are the number one reason every #%$@tard on the road tailgates) pay attention, stay off the GD phone and if someone runs a red light or cuts me off , well that’s what full coverage is for.

 

[saforwardlook]

“1969 Newport with drums.... im WTF, who can say that car is safe. Every thing at road will stop faster. Even that soccer mom front of you with minivan with 48 kids on board does that, before you rear end her and kids....”

That’s why I simply said respect - your - Machinery. I don’t tailgate (good modern disc brakes are the number one reason every #%$@tard on the road tailgates) pay attention, stay off the GD phone and if someone runs a red light or cuts me off , well that’s what full coverage is for.

With maybe for the exception of yourself, most of us have had very unpredictable panic stop situations despite maintaining proper distances behind the car ahead of us at given speeds. The problem comes when cars ahead of that van or full size pick up in front of you that you can't see through decides instead of slowing down for traffic ahead of it, when the traffic suddenly comes to a halt, just keeps up its speed and moves over into the left lane at the last second leaving you unexpectedly holding the bag when traffic is suddenly stopped ahead of you. If you're in a C body with drum brakes in that situation, you might as well kiss your *** goodbye even if you are following a 1/4 mile behind the truck. Its tough even for disc brakes on any car, but at least you have a chance. There is no chance with any drum braked C bodies I have driven. Get real.

 

[Rustyrodknocker]

Hyperbole, as typical. If your driving these cars for your safety I got bad news for ya.
Discs are the common sense advantage. Lower maitnenence input, better cooling equals less fade. I swapped my 69 to 73 brakes but I was never lacking with the drums. Granted I didn't pull my motorcycle trailer through the Siskiyous with the drums. There are commercial vehicles still made with drums. But they are made for people that know how to drive and they are maintained. Proper setup on drums can give outstanding one shot performance. That"s why commercial rigs use them, the drivers don't ride the brakes and cook the **** out of them.
Regardless, if you are in modern freeway traffic I dont care if you have perfect 73 and up discs or bad *** wilwoods. When a modern car with half the weight and antilocks, stands on them in front of you. You will catch up with them in a hurry.
In factory form, the drums were well matched with the wallowing suspension and **** tires. The biggest issue is with an automatic and 2:76 rears. If your going down a mountain pass you have to pull it down into second to manage the fade and you may still struggle.
Same brakes with a manual and 3:55 or lower and its a non issue.

 

[saforwardlook]

Hyperbole, as typical. If your driving these cars for your safety I got bad news for ya.
Discs are the common sense advantage. Lower maitnenence input, better cooling equals less fade. I swapped my 69 to 73 brakes but I was never lacking with the drums. Granted I didn't pull my motorcycle trailer through the Siskiyous with the drums. There are commercial vehicles still made with drums. But they are made for people that know how to drive and they are maintained. Proper setup on drums can give outstanding one shot performance. That"s why commercial rigs use them, the drivers don't ride the brakes and cook the **** out of them.
Regardless, if you are in modern freeway traffic I dont care if you have perfect 73 and up discs or bad *** wilwoods. When a modern car with half the weight and antilocks, stands on them in front of you. You will catch up with them in a hurry.
In factory form, the drums were well matched with the wallowing suspension and **** tires. The biggest issue is with an automatic and 2:76 rears. If your going down a mountain pass you have to pull it down into second to manage the fade and you may still struggle.
Same brakes with a manual and 3:55 or lower and its a non issue.

The problem with the C bodies I had was that the crap drum brakes woudn't even make ONE hard stop from 65 mph without tremdous fade even under reasonable conditions. That is why I got rid of them forever and never looked back - I am not talking hyperbole. Maybe you had a non optioned Plymouth low line 2 door sedan or something similar, but the Chrysler models I had were usually well decked out and they were unacceptable with no hyperbole. And please don't suggest I don't know how to install and maintain a set of drum brakes. And I never used bias ply ties on my cars once radials were available either.

And yeah, long down hill grades in California were just hell with my C body drum brakes, you had to be in the right lane in second gear with cars behind you riding your *** and impatient - but if you tried to go the typical 10 miles or so downhill in 3rd gear, you were doomed - there were NO brakes (and no hyperbole). I never had a C body with 3.55s or lower gears, and I doubt but maybe a couple in all of their production ever did. My Cuda has 3.55 gears and they are not suitable for freeway driving IMO as the revs are too high and just a tiring waste of fuel.

Like I said earlier, my 1969 Road Runner was just fine with its HD drum brakes and never gave me any fade.

 

[Rustyrodknocker]

Whoa! People getting excited in here!
Nah, no Fury here just my ol 300, a year older than your old one. A 69.
I did put my drums back on the 73 Fury though..
It stopped alright.....

 

[carrman]

My disc brakes work very well in the Siskiyous.

 

[savoy64]

i am thinking that the 69 polaras with the 3 inch drum brakes were setting performance records that it took some disc brakes a couple of years to catch up to( in the police cars)----in fact in the world of GP motor cycle racing Honda came out with the first disc brake setup------and they suffered next to the drum brakes that were being run on All the other bikes------it took 4-5 years for honda to equal the efficiency of the drums-----then since they were simpler to use and you didnt need a specialized brake mechanic to set up the drums---they changed-----------you guys all seem to think if you lock up your brakes you are stopping fast----not so....and dont give me the what if i have 3-5 panic stops in a row---park the car....

 

[ayilar]

the drums (...) biggest issue is with an automatic and 2:76 rears. If you're going down a mountain pass you have to pull it down into second to manage the fade and you may still struggle.
Same brakes with a manual and 3:55 or lower and its a non issue.

yeah, long down hill grades in California were just hell with my C body drum brakes, you had to be in the right lane in second gear with cars behind you riding your *** and impatient - but if you tried to go the typical 10 miles or so downhill in 3rd gear, you were doomed - there were NO brakes

Good advice. How would the original discs perform in a similar situation, same 2:76 gears (I would like to drive Medina for a long trip out West).

 

[saforwardlook]

Good advice. How would the original discs perform in a similar situation, same 2:76 gears (I would like to drive Medina for a long trip out West).

I have never had a problem with my 1971 Chrysler 300 ( avatar car to the left) traveling back and forth to Detroit and California many times and I usually went through the Rocky Mountains for the scenery. I never "ride" the brakes but apply them in intervals as needed to slow the car when on a steep downgrade. I also loaned the car to a friend of mine that rebuilt my engines years ago and he too took the car across the country through mountain passes. Never had an issue with fade in my experience, but I never towed anything with the car either. The car currently has 205K miles on it, so it has seen plenty of miles. It has the standard 440 and 2.76 gears - it also got 17 mpg at around 70 mph too on the interstates. That did surprise me, as I was expecting less.

I love that car and will never sell it as long as I am still here.

 

[bluefury361]

Our 69 300 convertible, (Jezebelle), came to me with 4 wheel power drum brakes. They were totally rebuilt during the restoration including a rebuilt booster. They worked fine on the first road trip to Carlisle from Bama, Blue Ridge Parkway from one end to the other, both ways. Lots of long grades, up and down and tight curves.

The next year We towed a medium sized pop up camper on the same route. The drum brakes failed miserably. By the end of each day, (we would stop around 4:00 to get a camping spot), the brakes were virtually non existent.

I converted to discs soon after and that made a huge difference, no fade. I retained the drum booster at first and soon discovered that it could not supply enough vacuum to maintain a pedal, which would sink to the floor. The more stops, the less brake power. A Bendix booster cured everything.

 

[bluefury361]

Our 69 Plymouth suburban, (the Admiral), was also a power drum brake car. With a 318 and 904.
We towed our 1968 vintage 20' camper, (Connie), with it, same route, Blue Ridge Parkway, with little brake issues. Difference was that the trailer had brakes which I could control remotely. That made a big difference. I likely would have converted to front disc's in time but it never came to be.

 

[The Goose]

Our 69 Plymouth suburban, (the Admiral), was also a power drum brake car. With a 318 and 904.
We towed our 1968 vintage 20' camper, (Connie), with it, same route, Blue Ridge Parkway, with little brake issues. Difference was that the trailer had brakes which I could control remotely. That made a big difference. I likely would have converted to front disc's in time but it never came to be.

View attachment 377721 View attachment 377722

That is one Beee-utiful set up. We always had campers, not nearly as cool.
Nice nice nice.