Brakes: To be disc, or not to be disc

[saforwardlook]

If it has the crappy rotors that were really upgraded by Chrysler later on you might try to go to 1973s I think? I don’t know for sure because I’ve got power drum and they’re fine for what I do. I think they’ll panic stop at least one time in a row Lol!!! I just don’t know if it’d be worth the trouble to do it EXCEPT that you lucked out and got everything you’ll need. That would be the only way I’d ever upgrade to the “old” stuff. New style heck yes but the big old discs on my 71 Torino aren’t much more confidence inspiring than my power drums on the Fury. It’ll be an upgrade just don’t expect them to change the rotation of the earth. Believe it or not the old stuff ain’t that great it’s just great compared to the lesser old stuff. If you get what I’m saying...

Good luck and post your successful swap for us spectators. We’ll be rooting for you!!!

I can't say much about the Ford Torino disc brakes compared to the power drum brakes on your Fury, but I would expect expect the discs on his Chrysler to "change the rotation of the earth" by comparison. I would never have drum brakes on any C body unless you never drive above 50 mph.

 

[The Goose]

I can't say much about the Ford Torino disc brakes compared to the power drum brakes on your Fury, but I would expect expect the discs on his Chrysler to "change the rotation of the earth" by comparison. I would never have drum brakes on any C body unless you never drive above 50 mph.

I followed Kenny Wayne’s new Demon and his buddy driving his restomod General Lee thru the Malibu canyons at speed and we did just fine. Well maintained drum brakes are nothing to be afraid of. My dad never drove on the hiway under 50 back in the day so why the big deal now??? Torino’s aside I’ve had many old Mopar w old discs and they just ain’t that good compared to modern stuff. I was just saying if you had to collect all that old stuff bit by bit it wouldn’t be worth it to to upgrade. In this case he scored it all so why not but not to expect it to stop like a modern car. Just don’t want to get his hopes up and then be disappointed.

Now drum vs ANYTHING in the rain well you might just have a point there bud.

 

[carrman]

One of the selling points for me getting my '68 was Krautmaster had already converted over to '73 front disc, using a booster from an unknown year of Formal. He gave me a spare too.

 

[saforwardlook]

I followed Kenny Wayne’s new Demon and his buddy driving his restomod General Lee thru the Malibu canyons at speed and we did just fine. Well maintained drum brakes are nothing to be afraid of. My dad never drove on the hiway under 50 back in the day so why the big deal now??? Torino’s aside I’ve had many old Mopar w old discs and they just ain’t that good compared to modern stuff. I was just saying if you had to collect all that old stuff bit by bit it wouldn’t be worth it to to upgrade. In this case he scored it all so why not but not to expect it to stop like a modern car. Just don’t want to get his hopes up and then be disappointed.

Now drum vs ANYTHING in the rain well you might just have a point there bud.

I used to own a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner with the HD drum brakes and found them very adequate and never felt the need to change them under any driving condition. But it was a comparatively light vehicle with hardly any options and no a/c. It was fine.

When I got my 1970 300 back in 1972, it had 29K miles on it and many options. All I can say, despite a complete redo of the drum brake system back at the time, I found the brakes just plain unsafe and I will never recommend them. The disc brake system is night and day better and I have full confidence in them and have never experienced the fade that was present on the stock drum brake system. I also find the front disc brake system is much more reliable than the drum brake mess as well. I also have had other C bodies with the standard drum brake system - same unacceptable fade after just one stop and struggling on the first fast stop on the highway from about 65 mph. Its your life.............................good luck.

 

[The Goose]

I used to own a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner with the HD drum brakes and found them very adequate and never felt the need to change them under any driving condition. But it was a comparatively light vehicle with hardly any options and no a/c. It was fine.

When I got my 1970 300 back in 1972, it had 29K miles on it and many options. All I can say, despite a complete redo of the drum brake system back at the time, I found the brakes just plain unsafe and I will never recommend them. The disc brake system is night and day better and I have full confidence in them and have never experienced the fade that was present on the stock drum brake system. I also find the front disc brake system is much more reliable than the drum brake mess as well. I also have had other C bodies with the standard drum brake system - same unacceptable fade after just one stop and struggling on the first fast stop on the highway from about 65 mph. Its your life.............................good luck.

I am in no way going to argue drums over disc brakes with you. You are absolutely correct discs are better & you will win that argument every time. I just said what I said and I’m still here scars and all. All I was trying to say is old school disc brakes are no Superman and are definitely NOT a get out of jail free card for acting dumb. I respect the limitations of all things mechanical and that’s why I’m still alive Lol!!! I will tell you that in a 70 AAR ( pretty good brakes) going well over 140 mph it takes over 3000 feet to stop with disc brakes. If it had been a disaster situation disc or drum it would’nt have mattered. We tried to peg every speedo in every car we had so good front end brakes tires mattered. We had a marked road out in maricopa that we used. Lots of desert run off and plenty of room to coast to a stop sometimes. Young & dumb...

I was a bit sweaty by the time we popped out to the pacific. If you know how to use drums they will serve you well and last a long long time. Abuse them and good luck. When we parked they asked me how come we didn’t slide right off into the canyon??? I told them cause we didn’t want too...

 

[3175375]

I am in no way going to argue drums over disc brakes with you. You are absolutely correct discs are better & you will win that argument every time. I just said what I said and I’m still here scars and all. All I was trying to say is old school disc brakes are no Superman and are definitely NOT a get out of jail free card for acting dumb. I respect the limitations of all things mechanical and that’s why I’m still alive Lol!!! I will tell you that in a 70 AAR ( pretty good brakes) going well over 140 mph it takes over 3000 feet to stop with disc brakes. If it had been a disaster situation disc or drum it would’nt have mattered. We tried to peg every speedo in every car we had so good front end brakes tires mattered. We had a marked road out in maricopa that we used. Lots of desert run off and plenty of room to coast to a stop sometimes. Young & dumb...

View attachment 366871

View attachment 366872

I was a bit sweaty by the time we popped out to the pacific. If you know how to use drums they will serve you well and last a long long time. Abuse them and good luck. When we parked they asked me how come we didn’t slide right off into the canyon??? I told them cause we didn’t want too...

I bought a 65 Mustang and still have it (Tigger). It came with Kelsey Hayes 4 piston manual disc brakes. I have raced Tigger @ Willow Springs.
I have upgraded the pads and rotors, after racing there, I turned the rotors blue (and fade was present).
I upgraded the rotors to Frozen rotors that were cross perforated (punched, not drilled) and slotted, and high performance pads (semi-metallic). I now have minimal fade and no more blue-ing of the rotors.

I would be terrified of using drum brakes in my Mopars in a panic situation and plan on upgrading both Elwood and Shamu to discs...

 

[The Goose]

I bought a 65 Mustang and still have it (Tigger). It came with Kelsey Hayes 4 piston manual disc brakes. I have raced Tigger @ Willow Springs.
I have upgraded the pads and rotors, after racing there, I turned the rotors blue (and fade was present).
I upgraded the rotors to Frozen rotors that were cross perforated (punched, not drilled) and slotted, and high performance pads (semi-metallic). I now have minimal fade and no more blue-ing of the rotors.

I would be terrified of using drum brakes in my Mopars in a panic situation and plan on upgrading both Elwood and Shamu to discs...

I give up- - - Uncle !!!! You guys are right let’s argue lap belts vs shoulder belts, I think it’ll be less technical...

 

[3175375]

I give up- - - Uncle !!!! You guys are right let’s argue lap belts vs shoulder belts, I think it’ll be less technical...

View attachment 366960

Shamu, 69 Fury vert, doesn’t have seatbelts at all. I will have to try what you suggested...

 

[The Goose]

I bought a 65 Mustang and still have it (Tigger). It came with Kelsey Hayes 4 piston manual disc brakes. I have raced Tigger @ Willow Springs.
I have upgraded the pads and rotors, after racing there, I turned the rotors blue (and fade was present).
I upgraded the rotors to Frozen rotors that were cross perforated (punched, not drilled) and slotted, and high performance pads (semi-metallic). I now have minimal fade and no more blue-ing of the rotors.

I would be terrified of using drum brakes in my Mopars in a panic situation and plan on upgrading both Elwood and Shamu to discs...

Forgot to ask do you go up for track days the Shelby club or ??? Maybe I’ll see you out there. Throw up a pic of Tigger so I can spot you.

 

[The Goose]

Shamu, 69 Fury vert, doesn’t have seatbelts at all. I will have to try what you suggested...

My fondest young memory of seatbelt maintenance was the time I spent w my dad cutting about 100 belts out of a brand new 10 passenger van. They jingled too much while driving...

 

[3175375]

Forgot to ask do you go up for track days the Shelby club or ??? Maybe I’ll see you out there. Throw up a pic of Tigger so I can spot you.

I went with www.opentrackracing.com
Here is a YouTube video from 9 years ago:



I won’t be there anytime soon, as I now cave in South Dakota.

Here is a picture of Tigger:

 

[Ed Wagner]

I found some info on the web that says it might be worth my time to upgrade the caliper bracket and go to the larger diameter '76 and up rotors. Sounds like the earlier rotors had problems warping when they are applied hard.

And thanks to everyone for your comments! I appreciate the expertise and experienced mechanics.

 

[saforwardlook]

I found some info on the web that says it might be worth my time to upgrade the caliper bracket and go to the larger diameter '76 and up rotors. Sounds like the earlier rotors had problems warping when they are applied hard.

And thanks to everyone for your comments! I appreciate the expertise and experienced mechanics.

I can't recall ever having a warping problem on any of my rotors (69-73). Maybe people on line are using ones that are worn beyond specs if they are experiencing it.

 

[Davea Lux]

I can't recall ever having a warping problem on any of my rotors (69-73). Maybe people on line are using ones that are worn beyond specs if they are experiencing it.

The factory rotors usually did not warp. Some of the later ChiCom repops are single piece castings that are warped right out of the box. Working on police cruisers years ago, the rotors were sometimes gotten so hot that they were blue but were still not warped.

Dave

 

[The Goose]

I went with www.opentrackracing.com
Here is a YouTube video from 9 years ago:



I won’t be there anytime soon, as I now cave in South Dakota.

Here is a picture of Tigger:

View attachment 366971

Beautiful bud. That is one nice running (and braking Lol!!!) vehicle. Thanks for sharing.

 

[saforwardlook]

The factory rotors usually did not warp. Some of the later ChiCom repops are single piece castings that are warped right out of the box. Working on police cruisers years ago, the rotors were sometimes gotten so hot that they were blue but were still not warped.

Dave

I have yet to have any issues with the single piece Centric rotors. I find it really hard to believe they are warped right out of the box. That is not a bad company given my experience with them and working with their technical group one on one. If there are other Chinese rotor repops, I am unaware of them.............................

 

[Davea Lux]

I have yet to have any issues with the single piece Centric rotors. I find it really hard to believe they are warped right out of the box. That is not a bad company given my experience with them and working with their technical group one on one. If there are other Chinese repops, I am unaware of them.............................

Like a lot of things made in China, some of the stuff they produce is fine, but due to very lax quality control a lot of defective stuff slips thru. I have run across wheel cylinders that the seat was not machined to accept the brake line fitting without leaking, same also true for the bleeder screw. Cylinder pistons missing or installed backwards, cups missing or installed backwards. Point is you have to check all their stuff because while most parts may be fine some are not. The rotors are generally not that bad but we found some that ran .025 out of round when we put then on the lathe to check them. I am not going to return a rotor that is that far out under any circumstances. The replacement rotors from the parts house were fine. All I really am interested in here is pointing out that there are enough bad parts out there from China to make vigilence a necessity. Glad you got good parts.

Dave

 

[saforwardlook]

Like a lot of things made in China, some of the stuff they produce is fine, but due to very lax quality control a lot of defective stuff slips thru. I have run across wheel cylinders that the seat was not machined to accept the brake line fitting without leaking, same also true for the bleeder screw. Cylinder pistons missing or installed backwards, cups missing or installed backwards. Point is you have to check all their stuff because while most parts may be fine some are not. The rotors are generally not that bad but we found some that ran .025 out of round when we put then on the lathe to check them. I am not going to return a rotor that is that far out under any circumstances. The replacement rotors from the parts house were fine. All I really am interested in here is pointing out that there are enough bad parts out there from China to make vigilence a necessity. Glad you got good parts.

Dave

All I can say is that the tech rep at Centric (they have a main facility in California near where I live) is one of the best I have ever dealt with including those companies that are headquartered here in the U.S. They stress quality control a great deal and will do everything necessary to ensure quality parts. I have bought several sets now and no issues at all. They clearly are not your usual Chinese company.

 

[69 300 vert]

https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedi..._Whitepaper_B1-Warped-Brake-Disc-8-2018_1.pdf

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures

Prevention: There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing -following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions.

 

[Slantsix]

My experience with disc brakes (i dont count drums even a brakes )
1985 Golf 2, 8v Gti. weight 890kg/1960lbs
Stock brakes 239mm x 20mm, rear 239x10mm. 9,4"x 0.8" rear 9.4"x0.4" would fade from 100kmh to 0 at 40kmh, 62mph to 0 at 24mph.
Upgrade 256mm x 20mm. 10" x 0.8. brakes would fade away at 20kmh or 12mph.
Now with Turbo charged G60 engine.... 238hp... Ofc brakes got upgrade too...
280mm x 22mm or 11" x 0.86". Now that small car started to stop, and did it at road race course repeatedly. Dont have distances, but it did stop.
Next my second car. VW Golf III Variant Syncro 1580kg/3500lbs. Vr6 192hp. 288x25mm or 11,3" x 0.98 front and rear 239x10 9.4" x 0.4". Not super car brakes, but those worked at street. But 1 lap at Ahvenisto track , and those brakes was gone. Sry BMW, im rly sry...
Even with new fluids and EBC pads.
Next upgrade. Brembo GT Junior Kit. 328 x 28 or 12.9" x 1.1" rear brakes from Audi TT Quattro, 256x20 or 10" x 0.78". Now those brakes could take 4 laps easily... before started melting tired.
Now lets talk about 1980kg or 4380lbs 2d HT 1969 Newport with drums.... im WTF, who can say that car is safe. Every thing at road will stop faster. Even that soccer mom front of you with minivan with 48 kids on board does that, before you rear end her and kids....
Lets compare today modern cars with same weight and hp. All those cars has Brembos etc with 4 or 6 piston calibers and 12-14" rotors. Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, Challengers, Chargers etc...