Charging issue

[grimley]

Ok got some time today and still can't solve my issue.

I'm typing this on my phone so apologise for errors.

No load, car off 12.7v

Car on idle 12.5v

Rpm about 4000rpm 12.6v but no higher.

High load (headlights radio on) 12.3v (or maybe 11.3 I can't remember)
High load high rpm 12.37v (maybe 11.37)

I tested the resistance of the cables from alternator to bulkhead, to ammeter to bulknead to starter relay to battery and resistance was <0.5ohms. Even ammeter had low resistance.

I tried bypassing ammeter by bolting connections together, no good.

I tried running anothere cable in parallel from no he alternator straight to the battery, no change at all. Using this method I think I can rule out any wiring issue as there's a path of very little resistance but no increase in voltage.

I also tired running a cable straight from alternator to the connection to the ammeter (because the ignition needs voltage to start and branches off there), also bypassed ammeter and still had luck.

The alternator is brand new, 100amp dual field with 1 field grounded. I tried switching fields aswell.

Regulator is fairly new, however it appears to be regulating voltage as it's constant, is just not the voltage I'm expecting. It's a mechanical regulator btw.

The resistance from ground to alternator is 0.2ohms and I've replaced the main negative cable to the block and added a cable from block to body aswell.

I'm out of ideas. I haven't checked the field terminalservice circuit yet but am I right in saying it wouldn't start of coil or ballast resistor were faulty? I did check the coils resistance and that was 2.5ohms, I think that's fine?

Only thing I haven't replaced is the battery. But I don't think it's battery related because it never gets above 12.6v from the charging system.. anyway it's a callium battery that's about 3 years old. I have charged it a few times over the years with a mains battery charger.

Hope someone can decipher all this and has some advice!!!

 

[traintech55]

Ok got some time today and still can't solve my issue.

I'm typing this on my phone so apologise for errors.

No load, car off 12.7v

Car on idle 12.5v

Rpm about 4000rpm 12.6v but no higher.

High load (headlights radio on) 12.3v (or maybe 11.3 I can't remember)
High load high rpm 12.37v (maybe 11.37)

I tested the resistance of the cables from alternator to bulkhead, to ammeter to bulknead to starter relay to battery and resistance was <0.5ohms. Even ammeter had low resistance.

I tried bypassing ammeter by bolting connections together, no good.

I tried running anothere cable in parallel from no he alternator straight to the battery, no change at all. Using this method I think I can rule out any wiring issue as there's a path of very little resistance but no increase in voltage.

I also tired running a cable straight from alternator to the connection to the ammeter (because the ignition needs voltage to start and branches off there), also bypassed ammeter and still had luck.

The alternator is brand new, 100amp dual field with 1 field grounded. I tried switching fields aswell.

Regulator is fairly new, however it appears to be regulating voltage as it's constant, is just not the voltage I'm expecting. It's a mechanical regulator btw.

The resistance from ground to alternator is 0.2ohms and I've replaced the main negative cable to the block and added a cable from block to body aswell.

I'm out of ideas. I haven't checked the field terminalservice circuit yet but am I right in saying it wouldn't start of coil or ballast resistor were faulty? I did check the coils resistance and that was 2.5ohms, I think that's fine?

Only thing I haven't replaced is the battery. But I don't think it's battery related because it never gets above 12.6v from the charging system.. anyway it's a callium battery that's about 3 years old. I have charged it a few times over the years with a mains battery charger.

Hope someone can decipher all this and has some advice!!!

It sounds like you have checked all the correct things so I would remove the alternator and have it tested.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Yup. Sounds like a bad alternator... it should give you 13.5 all the time...

 

[Big_John]

Callium battery? Is that a brand name or are you running a calcium battery? A calcium battery will need a higher charging voltage.

Knowing if that voltage is 11 or 12 volts is very important. If the voltage is a steady ~12volts as you say, that may be the regulator... and since it's a mechanical regulator, it should be adjustable. You may have to pull the cover. Consult your FSM for more.

Easy way to check the alternator and regulator is to remove the field wire from the alternator. Connect your voltmeter to the battery. With the car running, turn all your lights and accessories on. Connect a jumper wire from the field connection to the battery connection on the alternator. Read the voltmeter. It should be in the 14/15 volt range. Only do this long enough to check the voltage. If it's in that range (or higher), it's the regulator. If it's still around 12 volts, it's the alternator.

This is a similar test to the FSM procedure. Snce most of us don't have a carbon pile to add load, all the accessories will add enough load to get a good indication.

BTW, checking resistance of the wire isn't going to tell you much. As I said before, you need to do a voltage drop test. I can check a piece of 14 gauge wire and it will show negligible amount of measured resistance. That 14 gauge wire won't carry much current though.

This guy explains it.

 

[LatPeahy]

Same thing happened to me. All wiring was good, battery..good, bulkhead bypass and what it boiled down to was a faulty alternator right out of the box. Took it back to napa, swapped it for a new one..charging ever since

 

[grimley]

This is my 2nd new alternator, first was a remanufactured 60a Remy. This is a brand new powermaster 100a that came with a proof of test tag with current readings at various speeds.

I try your test of the alternator and get some cable and rewire the circuit

 

[traintech55]

This is my 2nd new alternator, first was a remanufactured 60a Remy. This is a brand new powermaster 100a that came with a proof of test tag with current readings at various speeds.

I try your test of the alternator and get some cable and rewire the circuit

We have been poking this thread around for a while. All of us have forgoten to ask you to post a front side, and back side picture of the alternator. Lets make sure it is the correct one for your car.

 

[grimley]

We have been poking this thread around for a while. All of us have forgoten to ask you to post a front side, and back side picture of the alternator. Lets make sure it is the correct one for your car.

Im not home atm, but heres a link to the new alternator i bought and am running atm.

1966 PLYMOUTH FURY Powermaster Retro Alternators 7019

I did have some... mild, short term success today. At work i was researching exactly how mechanical regs work, and how to adjust them. i found a video on youtube where they show how bending the fixed arm on the contact spring changes the airgap and increase/decreases the output voltage. ()

i did this and was able to get an increase in voltage. after finetuning for 30 mins, i was able to get 13-14 volts depending on rpm.

i think this is a short term solution and ill rewire the entire charging circuit during our winter (your summer) as im still sure the voltage issue is due to fatigued wiring.

 

[cantflip]

My first read of this thread, at least that I can remember... Let's summarize what was learned.

1- Always test first, then throw parts at it.
2- After throwing parts at the problem, test again.
3- When seeking advice, this board will give many good answers... one of which may be correct.

It sure is cheaper to find and fix only the problem... but we all have "throw parts at it" moments... maybe the real lesson is to always listen when experienced guys like traintech55 and Big_John speak... and then still test before buying parts.

BTW grimley, I'm glad you got to the other side of this problem. DIY auto repair/restoration will always find a way to be a learning experience.

 

[grimley]

Definetly a learning experience. I did learn alot about the charging system and classic problems with early Chryslers.

I really like how many people were willing to help out with advice, makes these communities really good and helpful.

When I rewire everything I'll hopefully remember to post up if anything changes incase someone in the future digs up this thread!

 

[cantflip]

When I rewire everything I'll hopefully remember to post up if anything changes incase someone in the future digs up this thread!

And please lots of pictures showing what you're doing while in progress... the members may spot something that helps you, but many more who look at it will have never taken on a big rewire job... so the process will be more valuable than the results to them.

 

[traintech55]

And please lots of pictures showing what you're doing while in progress... the members may spot something that helps you, but many more who look at it will have never taken on a big rewire job... so the process will be more valuable than the results to them.

Grimley, I asked for pictures, especially of the rear of the alternator for a very specific reason. The alternator for your car was made from 1961 thru 1970. In 1971 Chrysler redesigned the back of the alternator, and although they look identical, you have to make a wiring modification for it to work with the mechanical regulator. Lets get this fixed once and for all.

 

[grimley]

Sorry for the average pic, was hard to take it while it was in the car.

 

[Big_John]

Grimley, I asked for pictures, especially of the rear of the alternator for a very specific reason. The alternator for your car was made from 1961 thru 1970. In 1971 Chrysler redesigned the back of the alternator, and although they look identical, you have to make a wiring modification for it to work with the mechanical regulator. Lets get this fixed once and for all.

He already mentioned that one of the field connections was grounded.

The alternator is brand new, 100amp dual field with 1 field grounded.

 

[Pat Du Bois]

I understand you replaced it ... but it realty sounds like a bad voltage regulator. Since I put my Fury back on the road I am on my 3rd one. Finally I did find a burnt wire in the fuse panel and replaced it, also cleaned up the light switch real good ... since then I have stopped having problems with my voltage regulator, but I am not sure if what really was going on. I just know when it burnt out I had the exact problem you describe.

You can get those voltage regulators cheap on ebay (maybe cheap is the problem) ... not a bad spare part to carry. I keep a spare battery in my trunk now. That volt meter should not be to the left of center when cruising, even with the lights and fan on,

 

[Knebel]

It sounds a lot like what I had going on. I also got a power master and grounded one field. Same issue. Then converted the whole thing over to the later 70s dual field regulator and *bam* 14.8v all the time. Solved all my charging issues and I even had an electronic voltage regulator before, it just would not want to put out.

 

[traintech55]

Sorry for the average pic, was hard to take it while it was in the car.

Thank you. This is the correct alternator for a 1961 thru 1971 Chrysler product, you can tell by the round press in diodes. The newer ones have a square back and different design diodes.
Your wiring should be Blue wire ignition feed to regulator, single Green wire from regulator to alternator thru the fields to ground.
Make sure you have VERY good grounds at the regulator base and at the alternator. Also with the engine running you should have 12 volts on the green wire at the alternator, you can check this with a test light or meter. Their are newer electronic regulators on the market that do away with the mechanical contacts inside the regulator and look just like factory issue.

 

[Straight eight]

...my 1969 Newport has the same charging issues....no 14,5 volt at idle at the battery. Only about 12,5 volts. The battery should be O.K. The former owner of the car gave me a new alternator with the car (brand new in box). I´m not really sure if its the correct one because its looking slightly different. The first picture is the original one which was in the car. The second picture the new one. Thank you so far.

 

[traintech55]

...my 1969 Newport has the same charging issues....no 14,5 volt at idle at the battery. Only about 12,5 volts. The battery should be O.K. The former owner of the car gave me a new alternator with the car (brand new in box). I´m not really sure if its the correct one because its looking slightly different. The first picture is the original one which was in the car. The second picture the new one. Thank you so far.

The first picture is the 1961 thru 1971 alternator. The second picture is the 1972 and up one. You can make the newer one work on an older car but you need to ground one of the field terminals on the back of the alternator.

 

[Straight eight]

The first picture is the 1961 thru 1971 alternator. The second picture is the 1972 and up one. You can make the newer one work on an older car but you need to ground one of the field terminals on the back of the alternator.

...which of the two field terminals i have to ground? Or does it not matter. One of the field terminals is cut off.