Driveline noise/drone/vibration

[Big_John]

Keep us posted!

Are you going to follow-up at all on the out of phase issue? It seems worthwhile since you've got the drive shaft out of the car.

Not at this point. If this doesn't cure it, I'll look into pinion angle and probably take the driveshaft over to a local driveshaft shop.

I'm running out of driving time though... Winter is coming and I need to get a few things done before it gets too cold.

 

[3175375]

Get the driveshaft rebuilt. My money’s on this.

 

[Ripinator]

My money was on the u-joints from the get-go.

 

[Boydsdodge]

I am just about to do the u-joints in my Imperial. The joints are very tight with no play, but off idle on up i get a woop woop with speed and a vibration at highway speeds above 65. I think it is also the Double Cardan CV Centering Yoke

That now seems to be out of stock every where I look suddenly.

 

[3175375]

I am just about to do the u-joints in my Imperial. The joints are very tight with no play, but off idle on up i get a woop woop with speed and a vibration at highway speeds above 65. I think it is also the Double Cardan CV Centering Yoke
View attachment 687877
That now seems to be out of stock every where I look suddenly.

You might want to contact Driveline Service here in South Dakota. I have the blessing of having them close by.

drivelineserviceinc.com

 

[Big_John]

An update.... I replaced all the U-joints but since I couldn't find any replacement listing for the centering yoke or the ball, nor could I find anything NOS. so I didn't try to change it. That was a mistake... Got it all back together and when I move the yoke, it still catches like it did before. No joy....

So, I did some research, actually a lot of research and I think I've come up with the proper replacement. (EDIT: Link to incorrect centering yoke omitted to stop any confusion. This one was wrong, see my next post) I matched all the dimensions to my existing yoke. I ordered one from Amazon (cheapest and fastest) and it should be here Wednesday or Thursday. BTW, the application listing seems to be early 80's Ford Bronco.

Since I've never had one apart, I followed @68PK21 440.6bbl 's advice and marked everything with a punch. Then I watched a bunch of YouTube videos and discovered no one has a good way of putting the u-joint the spring loaded centering yoke presses against. Thinking there's gotta be a better way, I grabbed a couple long zip-ties and cinched the yoke down so then I wasn't fighting the spring. Of course, this had to be taken apart so I can change the centering yoke.

These two pics are really hard to see the zip ties, but I think it gets the point across.

 

[Big_John]

A swing and a miss on this one... The centering yoke came in last night's Amazon delivery, including the driver tripping and falling on the porch in front of the Ring camera. Everything matched except the center post diameter was wrong. I thought I checked that, but the new is 1/2" and the old is 5/8", so must be I didn't.

The center pin in question.

I tried the two driveshaft shops in town today and no parts... I could order a new centering ball for $100 from one, but I wasn't confident that it would be correct... and $100 for this centering ball is a bit ridiculous. T

So, keeping with my track record of learning some things the hard way... I left the driveshaft at the better (of the two) driveshaft shop and they are going to weld on a new double cardan joint and I'll be done. That will take care of any balance or phasing issues at the same time.

Yep, should have done that in the first place and I'd be done with this.

@3175375 Feel free to say "I told you so".

 

[3175375]

Good on you for the college try. You took a risk and it wasn’t realized. You are regrouping and moving forward. Good job!

 

[Big_John]

Good on you for the college try.

Shoot... I barely made it out of high school.

I do have a masters degree from:

 

[Just Carbs]

A swing and a miss on this one... The centering yoke came in last night's Amazon delivery, including the driver tripping and falling on the porch in front of the Ring camera. Everything matched except the center post diameter was wrong. I thought I checked that, but the new is 1/2" and the old is 5/8", so must be I didn't.

The center pin in question.

I tried the two driveshaft shops in town today and no parts... I could order a new centering ball for $100 from one, but I wasn't confident that it would be correct... and $100 for this centering ball is a bit ridiculous. T

So, keeping with my track record of learning some things the hard way... I left the driveshaft at the better (of the two) driveshaft shop and they are going to weld on a new double cardan joint and I'll be done. That will take care of any balance or phasing issues at the same time.

Yep, should have done that in the first place and I'd be done with this.

@3175375 Feel free to say "I told you so".

Sometimes we just keep pushing ahead until we win.
We are members of a really big worldwide club.
Cars, boats, motorcycles, planes........
That's just the way it is.

 

[Big_John]

Got the driveshaft back from the shop. For anyone in my area needing driveshaft work, Frey Heavy Duty in E. Syracuse is the place to go. They had it done yesterday and I picked it up today.

Anyway... $335 later, a new double cardan assembly has been welded on with the shaft balanced. I noted the existing weight was still in place, so I assume that there was no issue.

Putting the shaft back in was a comedy of errors.... A late start didn't help. I wanted to swap the seal on the tailshaft for one with the extended boot, like they came with. Had one on hand and made the rookie mistake of not holding it up to the old one before I pulled it out. I think the one I have is for a 904. That meant a trip to NAPA where they had a slightly different one with a smaller boot, but it will work. Lost an hour for that trip as it involves shooting the breeze with the counter guy who I've known since he was a kid and used to come around with his Dad. (He's an A body guy!) Spilled about half of my Permatex on the floor. That was a real mess to clean up. Couldn't find the u-joint straps, turned out I had knocked them off the top of the lift into the runners along the top. Took me 1/2 hour to find those... Seemed like I dropped everything and bumped my head more than normal No sense was knocked into me though (One of my Dad's quotes there) I broke my little magnetic light too.

Anyway... I won the battle and the shaft is back in the car. I didn't test drive it though... Tomorrow with clean clothes that won't get that white interior dirty and a clearer head (if that's possible).

New double cardan joint. Nice weld!

And just for reference, the NAPA seal. Something between the stock boot and the replacement without the boot.

 

[Just Carbs]

Yep, definitely pushing ahead there.
You're an honorary member of the club and held in very high esteem.

 

[3175375]

Got the driveshaft back from the shop. For anyone in my area needing driveshaft work, Frey Heavy Duty in E. Syracuse is the place to go. They had it done yesterday and I picked it up today.

Anyway... $335 later, a new double cardan assembly has been welded on with the shaft balanced. I noted the existing weight was still in place, so I assume that there was no issue.

Putting the shaft back in was a comedy of errors.... A late start didn't help. I wanted to swap the seal on the tailshaft for one with the extended boot, like they came with. Had one on hand and made the rookie mistake of not holding it up to the old one before I pulled it out. I think the one I have is for a 904. That meant a trip to NAPA where they had a slightly different one with a smaller boot, but it will work. Lost an hour for that trip as it involves shooting the breeze with the counter guy who I've known since he was a kid and used to come around with his Dad. (He's an A body guy!) Spilled about half of my Permatex on the floor. That was a real mess to clean up. Couldn't find the u-joint straps, turned out I had knocked them off the top of the lift into the runners along the top. Took me 1/2 hour to find those... Seemed like I dropped everything and bumped my head more than normal No sense was knocked into me though (One of my Dad's quotes there) I broke my little magnetic light too.

Anyway... I won the battle and the shaft is back in the car. I didn't test drive it though... Tomorrow with clean clothes that won't get that white interior dirty and a clearer head (if that's possible).

New double cardan joint. Nice weld!

And just for reference, the NAPA seal. Something between the stock boot and the replacement without the boot.

Your experiences are similar to what happens with me and I don’t even have the lift up yet!

That driveshaft seal - never seen one short like that. Looking forward to hearing about your test drive.

I have had the driveshaft in Elwood my 68 Fury II 4 door sedan done (over $300) and I am extremely pleased with it. I hope yours works out well too.

 

[Big_John]

That driveshaft seal - never seen one short like that.

A lot of the rebuilds I've seen have the seal with no boot. I've always thought the one with the boot would be better at keeping junk out of the rear bearing, but who knows... It probably doesn't make much difference.

 

[Big_John]

OK... Went for a nice ride this morning. The vibration from the driveshaft is gone, so we're good there. I still have some gear noise though. That quieted down when it warmed up but it's still there. I'm being very critical though and it's really a "turn the radio up" noise. I'm going to think about this over the winter... I'm just about done for this season.

@Rainy Day FYI, I did check the pinion nut and it was tight.

I also think I'm going to go back and look at the pinion angle too. I'm going to check it again, although it should not have changed. I can either shim the rear or possibly the trans mount. I'll do some more reading.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Pinion and tailshaft angle mismatch will usually set up a vibration that comes and goes - a rhythmic thrumming.

A steady gear noise does not indicate that to me AFAIK - but what I understand happens with the mismatch above is that it wears on the tailshaft bearing and the pinion bearing, so that sooner or later, one or the other develops a noise similar to gear, but is a steady sound, more clearly heard when other stuff is quiet.

 

[Big_John]

Pinion and tailshaft angle mismatch will usually set up a vibration that comes and goes - a rhythmic thrumming.

A steady gear noise does not indicate that to me ASAIK - but what I understand happens with the mismatch above is that it wears on the tailshaft bearing and the pinion bearing, so that sooner or later, one or the other develops a noise similar to gear, but is a steady sound, more clearly heard when other stuff is quiet.

I changed all the bearings, including the pinion bearing, last year. The rear had that typical low speed noise from the axle bearings and the new bearings took care of that.

This sound is steady and noticeable over 50MPH. Not really bad, but noticeable. The vibration is gone though, so that's a win. As I said, I'm bad with sound so I may have a mechanic friend drive it for another opinion.

 

[65sporty]

When you say gear noise, I am assuming gear whine at a certain speed with light throttle? I usually hear most whine at 48-56 then it goes away. I had a customer with a 04 Lincoln town car that whined, we put bearings and a gesr set in, it took quite a bit to get the pattern correct. Upon the first test drive I still heard some, my customer came back after putting some miles on it, 500ish and said its quiet now

 

[Big_John]

When you say gear noise, I am assuming gear whine at a certain speed with light throttle? I usually hear most whine at 48-56 then it goes away. I had a customer with a 04 Lincoln town car that whined, we put bearings and a gesr set in, it took quite a bit to get the pattern correct. Upon the first test drive I still heard some, my customer came back after putting some miles on it, 500ish and said its quiet now

You know... One of my thoughts was to just drive it for a while. Nothing is falling apart so it can be driven.

For some reason, this car seems to get driven very little since I bought it last year. I spent more time this summer with the interior out than I figured on so it wasn't driven much. It didn't get driven a lot last year either.

The season is ending... Should have already ended, but it's been nice the past couple days. Maybe I can get some miles on it tomorrow.

 

[Rainy Day]

How old is gear lube, what weight is it. Fsm has quite a few notations that any gear noise should be followed by changing gear oil to rid of contamination and fill with recommended weight and have customer retest.. My differential builder recommends 85w/140 I know the factory typically recommended 75w/90.. worth a shot.