Edelbrock vs. anything else

live4theking

Old Man with a Hat
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Okay, so I'm going to ask my kids favorite question; Why?

More specifically: Why did you switch to an Edelbrock from whatever your car had previosly?

My '68 NYer still has the factory Holley sitting atop all the funny stuff.

Why did you switch to an Edelbrock and did it accomplish what you had hoped for?

I know I'm opening a can of worms, but I just cannot help it.

Thanks
 
Early Holleys can't generally be rebuilt because they warp after time and heat cycles. Later Edelbrocks don't satisfy me, as it seems they made them leaner out of the box these days and don't perform like the older ones I have. I would change over to an AVS stock set up or try out a new Holley (but they are expensive).
 
I put on a Eddy and intake ebcasuwe I like them. Ghey are "copies" of the original Carter AFB/AVS. Since I had one of those on my New Yorker, I got to like using them.

saforwardlook is right, they are lean out of the box, but that is easily remedied by purchasing a jet and spring kit, also from Eddy. My Newport and the Gremlin use 750 cfm Eddys, and we re-jetted both. They run great!
 
Because no gaskets constantly immersed in fuel until they leak and burn your car up.

...and because Holley's are junk.
 
Easy to use. Had a Holley on my car and couldn't tune it myself after I put a bigger cam in it. I screwed it up cause I didn't want to read anything at the time. Swapped an Eddy on, minor tuning and I was driving. And they are cheap!
 
I have a 3310 Holley on my Challenger been there since the eighties it has gotten tweaked in different directions over the years. It yielded me 15 mpg last year to Carlisle, 13.7 to the Nats higher speeds I70 compared to Rt22 is difference in mpg.
If I had to buy a new carb for a car tomorrow it would be a Eddy, thunder series.
Holley's are good for heavily modified cars or better yet a quickfuel (same idea). For fuel mileage and easy to get close the Eddy works well with a easily adjustable air valve done.
 
I fooled around with the jet, spring and rod kit from Edlebrock on one of the last ones I bought from them, but none of the combinations really satisfied me compared to some earlier Edlebrocks I have. Don't know the cause, but they just dont perform well off the line and feel relatively weak. I also don't like Edlebrocks because they don't have bowl vents, making hot starts difficult with long cranking in hotter weather.

Holley makes a bunch of carburetors and you have to sort through them to get one close to the original ones that were on the 1970 Chrysler 300s for example (4160s). And they are available with bowl vents. I have yet to try one, but that would be my next move. The original Holleys also felt better off the line than the comparable Carter AVS carbs on much the same applications - but only when they were new. When they go through a few years of heat cycles, they warp and are no good. The newer Holleys, though, seem to be pretty robust. I do not like that a lot of the gaskets on the Holleys are on vertical surfaces where they can leak after time easier than the horizontal gaskets in the Carter/Edlebrock cars. And as mentioned above, when the accelerator pump gaskets on a Holley start leaking, they become a real fire hazard since they emit fuel onto a hot intake manifold and nearby (even though that gasket is on a horizontal surface - Carter and related designs can not do that since their accelerator pumps are all internal to the carb, not externally mounted as with the Holleys).
 
I fooled around with the jet, spring and rod kit from Edlebrock on one of the last ones I bought from them, but none of the combinations really satisfied me compared to some earlier Edlebrocks I have. Don't know the cause, but they just dont perform well off the line and feel relatively weak. I also don't like Edlebrocks because they don't have bowl vents, making hot starts difficult with long cranking in hotter weather.

Holley makes a bunch of carburetors and you have to sort through them to get one close to the original ones that were on the 1970 Chrysler 300s for example (4160s). And they are available with bowl vents. I have yet to try one, but that would be my next move. The original Holleys also felt better off the line than the comparable Carter AVS carbs on much the same applications - but only when they were new. When they go through a few years of heat cycles, they warp and are no good. The newer Holleys, though, seem to be pretty robust. I do not like that a lot of the gaskets on the Holleys are on vertical surfaces where they can leak after time easier than the horizontal gaskets in the Carter/Edlebrock cars. And as mentioned above, when the accelerator pump gaskets on a Holley start leaking, they become a real fire hazard since they emit fuel onto a hot intake manifold and nearby (even though that gasket is on a horizontal surface - Carter and related designs can not do that since their accelerator pumps are all internal to the carb, not externally mounted as with the Holleys).
I agree with some of this. The Eddy's as of late I do believe are leaner than before and also tweaked for smaller engines, I believe the shooter size, and primary and secondary will all need enlarged to feed a 400+ cubic inch engine. I don't blame Edelbrock for this I think it is responsible and wise, too rich people will just keep running it, f#-#+ng up my air lean they may fix it because it does not run right.
The old Holley's warped and as mentioned were essentially non rebuildiable. I have had mine since the eighties and the new gaskets and accelerator pump diaphragms are world's ahead of 20 years ago and I have never had one just start leaking a river. The smaller than a BB size check ball is only supposed to lift .011 of its seat so the flow rate of a completely failed diaphragm is quite small. Truth be told the only gasket failures I have seen are from years of sitting, shame on you for letting a car sit that much.
 
I use whatever is on them. I can work on all of them. They all do the same job, in a few different ways. Each has their own quirks but all work well when properly tuned.
Very generally:
Holleys will be better at WOT and are easier to tune for that throttle position. Mainly because of the boosters and the number and deisgn of the air bleeds.
Carter/Edelbrocks are more efficient with slower air speeds due to the booster design, and can be more efficient at all other throttle positions for the same reason, and the more calculated approach to part throttle enrichment.
Properly sized carbs of different manufacturers will perform similarly on the same engine when properly tuned.
 
The Edelbrock design is based off the Carter AFB or AVS, has been around for a long time. Most of the Mopars from the early 60s and before until the 70s used them. They are a proven design and can be tuned to your engine with less effort some of the other makes. I didn't go with an Edelbrock but with the Street Demon that is similar to the Carter AVS or the Edelbrock Thunder Series, it is made by Holley. It can be tuned the same way an Edelbrock or Carter is by changing the metering rods without opening up the carburetor. Do your homework and find something that works for you. I personally could never get a Holley designed carburetor to run right after trying to rebuild it, and if somebody wanted to put a bigger cam in their car it may not idle correctly and have an off idle stumble. One thing I learned about a Holley was that the idle screws on the side of the metering block was for fuel not air, most other carburetors adjust air not fuel. Holley are just a different beast from most other types of carburetor weather it be Edelbrock, Carter or Rochester.
 
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Holley makes a bunch of carburetors and you have to sort through them to get one close to the original ones that were on the 1970 Chrysler 300s for example (4160s).
I'm yet to see a Mopar with a Holley, although I know they could come with one. So, I'm curious as to what you wrote here. My friend bought a '70 300-H. The carb ran bad, so I rebuilt it for him - a carter AVS. Turned out the throttle plates and rods were bent (no idea how?) so we swapped on a new Eddy.

Every 300-H I've seen had a Carter on it. My '70 Newport had a Carter. So, which '70 300s had Holleys? Do you have a picture if your car has one? As I said, I'm curious.
 
I'm yet to see a Mopar with a Holley, although I know they could come with one. So, I'm curious as to what you wrote here. My friend bought a '70 300-H. The carb ran bad, so I rebuilt it for him - a carter AVS. Turned out the throttle plates and rods were bent (no idea how?) so we swapped on a new Eddy.

Every 300-H I've seen had a Carter on it. My '70 Newport had a Carter. So, which '70 300s had Holleys? Do you have a picture if your car has one? As I said, I'm curious.

The 1970 440 standard 350HP engines came with them from the factory, and I think that is true of the 1969 standard 440s as well. The HP engines got the AVS carburetors and all 1971 440s I believe also got the AVS carburetors. Because the Holleys are not generally rebuildable after many years, you will probably rarely see one on a 440 engine of these years anymore. Some 383-4 engines had them as well, but not sure which years since I have had relatively few cars with that powerplant. But my 1970 Sport Fury with that power plant had an AVS on it (now sold).
 
Chrysler usually used Carter carburetors on their vehicles. Fords were Holley (the original 1850 was a Ford-OEM carb. The '67 NY 440/350 came with a factory Holley 4160 carb.

The Holleys, back then, were known (in the Chrysler ranks of normal owners) as needing a kit installed about every year. The Holley metering block/plate gaskets were more cork back then, which didn't help things. Funny thing is that as the Chrysler owners had issues with Holley 4bbls, similar carbs were used as replacements on GM engines and nobody typically said anything about them being maintenance issues.

On the Holley replacements I've bought, NO issues at all. As they were OEM replacements and NOT the less-expensive "speed shop" 1850s (which came with a manual choke and generic jetting), they all worked very well. NO issues with needing to kit them yearly, either! Of course, Holley improved their metering block gaskets, too, over the years. I started with a 4160, then replaced it with a 4175 spreadbore, after about 150k miles or so. Mpg went up 2+mpg, average.

The Holleys are MORE tuneable, if you desire to do that. Multitudes of jets, secondary springs, etc. I feel their accel pump is crisper, for a little better off-idle response, rather than the dribbles that came from my OEM Carter AVS. But my '70 Monaco 383 AVS seemed to get better fuel economy than a friend's '69 Bee 383 with the factory Holley 4160. But his Holley had off-idle response I could never get out of my AVS, no matter how much I tweaked it.

In 1971, the 383 HP B-body used a special Holley 4160 that was 750cfm, but not a 3310. It had 1.75" secondaries and 1.56" primaries. rather than the 3310s 1.690" throttle bores all the way around. That same part number is still in the books, but now has the "cathedral" race bowls, electric choke, and universal throttle linkage. Last time I looked, it was still available for a price that was less than a similar 3310 with similar goodies on it. Jetting is not OEM, though.

When Chrysler went to the Holleys in the later 1960s, the local dealership retro-fitted prior year Carters in their place when the owners complained about the yearly "kit" need. Put the Carter on and that was the end of that. The dealer also didn't order muscle cars which came with Holleys, due to the maintenance issues, back then. I heard about warped metering blocks, but never saw any. Might have been the poor gaskets? Back then, if the car dealer couldn't get what you needed, or the local auto supply, you were "up the creek . . ." Speed shops were in larger towns, a good distance away, so nobody locally usually knew about Holley carbs or getting parts for them. Therefore, the Carters give less trouble and people liked that.

Now, for a blend of Carter and Holley, you can check out the Street Demon carb (650cfm) that is the prior Carter Thermoquad architecture and built by Holley.

There is ONE issue with Holley 4160-style carbs. The placement of the accel pump diaphragm at the bottom of the primary float bowl. As ethanol gas does bad things to rubber, having a rubber diaphragm on the bottom of a float bowl, just above a hot manifold, might be an issue! Even if the diaphragm is of ethanol-resistant rubber, if the carb sits dry for any period of time, that rubber can become brittle. Add new fuel and restart it, leaks might well happen. In that respect, either the Edelbrocks or Street Demon would be a better deal, either way.

Summitt Racing and others usually have some sales on the Edelbrocks, Holleys, and Street Demons every so often. WATCH for them! The Street Demon also has the phenolic fuel bowl option, for even MORE of a Thermoquad look!

CBODY67
 
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Well, speaking of strange carbs on a Mopar, when I bought my '87 Ramcharger new, it was a 360 4-speed, I was very surprised to find a Rochester Quadrajet under the air cleaner. At that time it was the only SUV motor not using EFI of the big three, AMC was still using a carb too on its 360.
 
The QJet was also on the 318s, too. Where ever a TQuad had been before.

CBODY67
 
We saw many late 80's LA engines with QJets get traded in. I remember asking a tech why and he said you'll know the answer first time you try to rebuild a Thermoquad....he was right.
 
I never did care for QJets. ANY carb where you have to use a hammer and punch to get the accel linkage off so you can get the air horn off, is not a very good design, to me. We also had issues with the power piston sticking on the '69 Chevy pickup. Dad didn't use enough throttle to keep it free, so it's stick in the "full economy" (down) position. When that happened, all acceleration ended between after the accel pump shot ended and the secondaries might start to open. NOTHING helped, except a different style carb with no power piston and metering rods.

On a TQuad, the power piston is pulled down with manifold vacuum but also modulated with a "flat board" operated by a cam attached to the throttle shaft, so vacuum pulls it down and the board pushes it up. There are a few unusual things about the TQuad, but not bad to rebuild, to me. Main thing is that the TQuad is taller than a Holley 4bbl, FWIW. Never did find out why the phenolic float bowl had cracking issues.

By the time Chrysler started using the QJets, their financial issues were probably starting to mount. Carter was gone, so Rochester was the next-best choice. The QJet is highly tuneable, considering it went on everything from Pontiac OHC 6-cylinders to GM Motorhomes (with the Olds Toronado fwd drive module). so LOTS of metering rods, a full selection of jets, about 7 power piston springs, plus a multitude of secondary metering rods. So, it was probably an easy adaptation for the Chrysler engines. But the QJets had their service issues, too! Many were probably caused by defective canister control valves, which when they failed, would make an Olds V-8 (307 at that time) into a mosquito fogger. And, the GM pricing on that particular carb (the Olds 307 V-8) was about $1400.00, new or the later reman. Bad thing was that the cars they fit were worth less than that (at that time).

More of a financial issue for Chrysler, from what I could see.

CBODY67
 
I never did care for QJets. ANY carb where you have to use a hammer and punch to get the accel linkage off so you can get the air horn off, is not a very good design, to me. We also had issues with the power piston sticking on the '69 Chevy pickup. Dad didn't use enough throttle to keep it free, so it's stick in the "full economy" (down) position. When that happened, all acceleration ended between after the accel pump shot ended and the secondaries might start to open. NOTHING helped, except a different style carb with no power piston and metering rods.

On a TQuad, the power piston is pulled down with manifold vacuum but also modulated with a "flat board" operated by a cam attached to the throttle shaft, so vacuum pulls it down and the board pushes it up. There are a few unusual things about the TQuad, but not bad to rebuild, to me. Main thing is that the TQuad is taller than a Holley 4bbl, FWIW. Never did find out why the phenolic float bowl had cracking issues.

By the time Chrysler started using the QJets, their financial issues were probably starting to mount. Carter was gone, so Rochester was the next-best choice. The QJet is highly tuneable, considering it went on everything from Pontiac OHC 6-cylinders to GM Motorhomes (with the Olds Toronado fwd drive module). so LOTS of metering rods, a full selection of jets, about 7 power piston springs, plus a multitude of secondary metering rods. So, it was probably an easy adaptation for the Chrysler engines. But the QJets had their service issues, too! Many were probably caused by defective canister control valves, which when they failed, would make an Olds V-8 (307 at that time) into a mosquito fogger. And, the GM pricing on that particular carb (the Olds 307 V-8) was about $1400.00, new or the later reman. Bad thing was that the cars they fit were worth less than that (at that time).

More of a financial issue for Chrysler, from what I could see.

CBODY67
I always liked the spreadbore of those carbs - looked really cool! What I didn't like was the way it ran in cold weather. When it snowed in Downieville and I started that thing, it ran like **** for the first 15 minutes. I had read reports that said it would do just that, "chug in cold weather." It did!
 
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