Getting running again

[schlot]

Hi everyone.

After years of just letting her sit, I got my wife's 67 Newport 2dr running again.

A new battery and a clean up of the carb and she took off.

You could hear the lifters begging for oil at first but after 10 min at idle she is purring beautifully.

I have no brake pedal pressure (even after topping off the master cylinder) so I'm sure there is a leak.

Whats the best place to start looking for the brake leak?

Thanks

 

[CBODY67]

Where there is a brake fluid leak, it will usually have a wetness near the bottom of the backing plate on the wheel. Or a line could have failed. Or the master cyl could be leaking into the booster, which usually will have a small trail on the booster housing under the master cyl rear mount to the booster.

Sometimes, if a whl cyl starts leaking, it will soak the brake shoes and cause stopping issues to happen, plus possibly a leak pattern on the backside of the tire sidewalls.

CBODY67

 

[fury fan]

Not knowing how old the metal tubes are and how long/what conditions the car sat in, it's all speculation for us.
If you have no pedal at all, I would think metal tubes and hoses would be first places to look.
as @CBODY67 said, look for wet places.

Might simply be a justification to replace *everything*.

 

[Big_John]

Hi everyone.

After years of just letting her sit, I got my wife's 67 Newport 2dr running again.

A new battery and a clean up of the carb and she took off.

You could hear the lifters begging for oil at first but after 10 min at idle she is purring beautifully.

I have no brake pedal pressure (even after topping off the master cylinder) so I'm sure there is a leak.

Whats the best place to start looking for the brake leak?

Thanks

IMHO, the first thing to ask is which part of the master cylinder reservoir was down?

If the front portion was down, look at the rear brakes and rear portion means front brakes.

Both reservoirs down? That might point to a bad master cylinder.

The first things I would look at are the hoses, front and rear along with the lines. Just have to look for wet spots. Next would be the wheel cylinders and yea, that involves pulling wheels and drums, but you gotta do it.

Next is master cylinder. Usually, the tell tale on that is the pedal will pump up, but will sink to the floor when holding it. Look for oil stains on the brake booster too.

Might simply be a justification to replace *everything*.

^This makes a lot of sense and how I usually handle it. If the steel lines are good, leave them, but at minimum, replace the brake hoses, front and rear along with whatever else is leaking.

 

[fury fan]

And hey - Welcome to FCBO!!!
@furious70 has some connections to Iowa. Probably other members there too, but I don't know the names.

 

[furious70]

@Toolmanmike is in Iowa as well

 

[schlot]

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the help.

I know if someone here in town that has a couple similar cars (66 maybe)

Both reservoirs were down in the master cylinder. Ill check around the master cylinder for leaks then I think I'll start pulling the tires and getting behind the plates to look for leaks.

Which side of car hss backward nuts?

Is there a good source for rubber and steel brake lines for this Ole girl?

 

[Big_John]

Which side of car hss backward nuts?

Left side has left handed lug nuts.

 

[fury fan]

Steel lines - check Inline Tube, Fine Lines, google for other companies.
Rubber hoses - local parts store or Rock Auto.

If you want a step upward, see if stainless braided brake hoses are available for your application. I have used them on 2 cars in the past 20 years and they are my go-to since then.
One 1 car I noticed a better pedal feel after putting them on (the other car was getting a disc conversion, so a before/after comparison wasn't possible)
Even if I was working on a drumbrake car I would likely seek them.
Cost might be $30 hose instead of $10-15, so not a huge expense.

If no listings are available, sometimes you can find other cars that have a similar hose but maybe 1" longer, and those might fit. But that kind of spec info isn't widely published on brake hoses. They intend for you to buy what the catalog calls for.

 

[Darby]

After getting it up and running, it’s recommended for DOT3 brake fluid be flushed out with new fluid every 18 months. It’s hydrophilic (water seeking) and will pull moisture (even humidity) through the hoses and around any seal (wheel cylinders, dust boots on calipers, cap on master). After 18 months it can absorb 3% (wet point) and that lowers the boiling point to 185 degrees. New from a sealed container boils at 401 degrees. NEVER USE BRAKE FLUID FROM AN OPEN CONTAINER!!! It starts absorbing moisture when the seal on the container is pulled off.
More important, the wet point will rust the inside of the master cylinder, wheel cylinder, calipers, and some lines.

 

[CBODY67]

Back in the earlier 1980s when stainless steel braid brake lines were mentioned in some road racing magazine, I thought about getting some for one of my cars. The benefits of a more consistent pedal feel and perceived longevity were key things I was looking at. Then a friend who worked at StratoFlex (which build lines and hoses for the local aerospace industry) noted that inside of that stainless steel braid was a normal rubber hose which would last no longer or better than a normal rubber hose would. So the only real benefit of such hoses on a car would be abrasion resistance increases, if needed. Other than the braid reinforcing the hose so it would not expand slightly under brake fluid pressure . . . I was not road racing the car. That realization ended my quest for such brake lines.

Certainly, we've known that brake fluid would absorb moisture from the air. BUT, for some reason, in the 1950s and later, in the service area of every gas station I ever walked into, was a gallon of brake fluid, with the top off, and a squeeze bulb with the end of it sitting on the opening of that gallon of brake fluid (as if to keep debris out). It was used to top-off master cylinders and to wash out debris from using the brake cyl hone on wheel cylinders being rebuilt. It was always clean and looked normal. This was in North Texas, not the Gulf Coast area, for reference.

We know that friction material rubbing against a brake drum/brake rotor builds heat, but we never really know how much. If the moisture absorbed by the fluid not be cooked out with a moderate stop or slow-moving traffic with many mild brake applications? If that moisture is cooked out under those normal use circumstances, would the boiling point of the brake fluid be back to what it should be or is it permanently lowered after the initial absorption of moisture?

Does the absorbed moisture stay near the point in which it entered or does it suddenly transfer to the complete brake fluid supply in the brake system? Contaminating everything?

With the advent of anti-lock brake systems, moisture contamination can harm the guts of those modulators, so flushing every so often can be beneficial. Not sure about 18 months, though, as that might be a little often unless that is the maximum spec for coastal areas.

Still, I wonder how we lasted this far with all of those open cans of brake fluid in all of those mechanic shops all of these years.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Dads300]

Now days I’m pretty sure all braided brake lines have teflon lining fwiw.
Travis..

 

[Darby]

After getting it up and running, it’s recommended for DOT3 brake fluid be flushed out with new fluid every 18 months. It’s hydrophilic (water seeking) and will pull moisture (even humidity) through the hoses and around any seal (wheel cylinders, dust boots on calipers, cap on master). After 18 months it can absorb 3% (wet point) and that lowers the boiling point to 185 degrees. New from a sealed container boils at 401 degrees. NEVER USE BRAKE FLUID FROM AN OPEN CONTAINER!!! It starts absorbing moisture when the seal on the container is pulled off.
More important, the wet point will rust the inside of the master cylinder, wheel cylinder, calipers, and some lines.

Wow, I’m skipping through this thread and the 185 and 401 degrees popped out to me and then I noticed it was my post.
SORRY GUYS!!! The 185 degree boiling point with 3% moisture content is wrong, it’s supposed to be 285 degrees.
I guess I should’ve proofread my post better. I wasn’t out to mislead anyone, I just hit 1 instead of 2 without realizing it.
For normal driving with disc brakes we’re not going to make the brake pads/pistons hot enough to boil the fluid. The bigger reason I keep up with flushing out the system is that all the seals in the system will last longer. I flush my brake fluid at around 24 month intervals, with that I have never had a seal in a brake system go bad. I still have to change the hoses because of age though.

CBODY67 is absolutely correct with his observations of the gallon of brake fluid with the squeeze bulb in it. I think we all thought that was just fine. Once I learned that was wrong, I did things differently. Most people will never know the truth, sounds like life in general, none of us will ever know everything!!!!