Joseph James
Senior Member
I changed one and had to carefully install it. It was a tight fit. Not sure why yours came off.
I mentioned some of the fuel delivery issues I had because old cars tend to develop holes in fuel tanks, etc.
Good ride , then died
- Thread starter kenfyoozed
- Start date
I changed one and had to carefully install it. It was a tight fit. Not sure why yours came off.
I mentioned some of the fuel delivery issues I had because old cars tend to develop holes in fuel tanks, etc.
kenfyoozed
Member
I am sure I will be looking into the rest of the fuel system in time.
Not sure why this seal came off. I know it was on correct and worked for a while. I still feel the fuel has deteriorated this seal already. It’s blue in color as the old one was black.Well I thought it was black. Looks like the 1411 needs the orange one. Maybe it’s a different size too.
Not sure why this seal came off. I know it was on correct and worked for a while. I still feel the fuel has deteriorated this seal already. It’s blue in color as the old one was black.Well I thought it was black. Looks like the 1411 needs the orange one. Maybe it’s a different size too.
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You know... I've suggested doing that test a number of times on this forum and it always falls on deaf ears. Guys will just replace parts rather than do that very simple test.
kenfyoozed
Member
Do you have a set of parameters for the out come of such a test? What should the flow be?
I think that flow amount is just fine.
I never really heard a good spec, but 26 GPH is pretty good. Think about it, driving for an hour isn't going to burn 26 gallons of fuel.
Ha! We posted at the same time.
The rule of thumb has always been to just watch the flow. It should be a strong stream, pulsing with the stroke of the fuel pump. Someplace, somewhere, I do remember a loose spec about time to fill a soda can. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Found this: "What Size Fuel Pump Do I Need?" Your Top Tech Questions Answered! - OnAllCylinders
They are saying 350hp will need 29GPH, so we're in the ball park.
I also found this, and they are saying a stock Carter small block pump is 15GPH, but there's no reference where that info came from.
Mechanical Fuel Delivery for Mopar LA Engines
I'll keep looking...
They are saying 350hp will need 29GPH, so we're in the ball park.
I also found this, and they are saying a stock Carter small block pump is 15GPH, but there's no reference where that info came from.
Mechanical Fuel Delivery for Mopar LA Engines
I'll keep looking...
rkrochen
Senior Member
It is difficult to find specs but they are out there somewhere but it is not that important. The point is as stated you are looking for a steady stream of gas. Again a deadheaded fuel line can show pressure. Once the line is open you can loose it because you don’t have enough flow. In this case he has more than enough.
Yea, but now it's a challenge and I'm a little bored.
Found this pump on the Carter website, listed for a '68 440. 30GPH free flowing.
Carter M3672 | Carter Fuel Systems Catalog
Thanks for those updates!
In another forum, it was mentioned that the OEM leather accel pumps were the best for the newer fuels. The orig Carters came with them, back then, too. But when the newer orange pump cups came out, that was supposed to be better and more positive in action, i.e., better.
Not sure where you got the kit or its brand, but I'm wondering if Edelbrock has an accel pump available by its self? If it might be better? Just curious.
Take care,
CBODY67
In another forum, it was mentioned that the OEM leather accel pumps were the best for the newer fuels. The orig Carters came with them, back then, too. But when the newer orange pump cups came out, that was supposed to be better and more positive in action, i.e., better.
Not sure where you got the kit or its brand, but I'm wondering if Edelbrock has an accel pump available by its self? If it might be better? Just curious.
Take care,
CBODY67
DETAILS
The Edelbrock accelerator pump assembly part # 1467 is designed for use with Edelbrock Performer Series® 1407 and 1411 carbs ONLY. Do NOT use with other brands
currently out of stock. ebay or amazon maybe?
kenfyoozed
Member
I ran across that same information and I too found that I needed the orange cup. I think my local Oriellys warehouse has them in stock. I was going to change the squirter and the metering spring while i was in there. I also ran across information that the 1411 is lean to begin with and that the ethanol in fuel leans it out even more. So a jet change may be in order as well.
Joseph James
Senior Member
I, too, have read and heard that the newer Edelbrocks are allegedly calibrated a bit lean. Or at least "lean" compared to "full rich", for best economy (which can be important). The "stoich" for gasoline is 14.7, whereas E10 is 14.2. To really compare "lean" or not, you'd need to examine the metering rod sizes + jet sizes for the OEM-spec carbs of the later '60s (non-C.A.P. applications) and then compare them to what Edelbrock now states for each carb number. THEN, see how much difference there might be.
As for the metering rod springs, their tension will control the phasing of the metering rods from "economy" to "power", at a particular manifold vacuum level. Somewhere, there are some specs on them, by color. The old, orig Holley power valves for the 4160s all had a 5.5" Hg power valve in them. The later 2-stage Holley 4160 power valves allowed the main jet size to be decreased about .003" for best cruise economy (circa 1972+), adding the first level of slight enrichment at 10" Hg and then the full enrichment at 5.5" Hg.
When I was using my '70 Monaco Brougham 383 "N" (Carter 4732S AVS) all 0f the time, I was keeping logs on fuel use and such. I got one of the Carter Strip Kits for the AVS (three-strep rods) to do some testing. I went a bit richer on the rods, no change. Tried a hair leaner, no reach change in performance that way, either. Obviously, I was not making enough difference without doing a jet change too? Ended up going back to the OEM rods (which had a slight bit of "wear marks" on one side.
When I got the '67 Newport 383 4bbl, I tried the AVS 3-step rods in it (OEM was the 2-step rods). The AVS rods were not supposed to work in the earlier carb, but again, no real difference that I could quantify. Put it back OEM and no further experimentation.
Optimum "rich" is supposed to be about 12.7 a/f ratio, with cruise being 14.7 a/f ratio with E0 gas.
Without doing a full chassis dyno "road load" cruise a/f ratio check, the next best th8ing is to look at the spark plug insulator color. With something in the range of a J-12Y equivalent plug, ignition total advance of about 38 degrees (which I think you've already talked about), if the plugs have a super-white blistered look, then the mixture can be too lean. But I suspect that before it gets that way, you'd notice a weakness in power going up slight hills at steady throttle with little response as the throttle is cracked a few-hairs-worth of travel to seek to maintain speed. Still with the rods in the basic "economy" position.
The other thing about "lean primary calibrations" is that any "tight" lean calibration on the primaries will need to be compensated for on the secondaries at WOT power. Some of the old Direct Connection Race Manuals addressed carb jetting for various engine/intake manifold/carb combinations. Even back then, some richer-than-OEM recommendations were made!
But BEFORE you go off on a tangent of recalibrating the carb, get the IGNITON right FIRST. Got to have a strong and reliable spark EACH TIME in order to fire-off any mixture in the cylinders.
You can finesse the accel pump shot first by moving the linkage to a different hole and then checking for correct operation. This will raise or lower the pump cup in its bore a bit, for a longer or shorter pump shot duration. This was how we changed the pump shot before we knew about the size of the hole in the shooters (except on Holleys).
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
As for the metering rod springs, their tension will control the phasing of the metering rods from "economy" to "power", at a particular manifold vacuum level. Somewhere, there are some specs on them, by color. The old, orig Holley power valves for the 4160s all had a 5.5" Hg power valve in them. The later 2-stage Holley 4160 power valves allowed the main jet size to be decreased about .003" for best cruise economy (circa 1972+), adding the first level of slight enrichment at 10" Hg and then the full enrichment at 5.5" Hg.
When I was using my '70 Monaco Brougham 383 "N" (Carter 4732S AVS) all 0f the time, I was keeping logs on fuel use and such. I got one of the Carter Strip Kits for the AVS (three-strep rods) to do some testing. I went a bit richer on the rods, no change. Tried a hair leaner, no reach change in performance that way, either. Obviously, I was not making enough difference without doing a jet change too? Ended up going back to the OEM rods (which had a slight bit of "wear marks" on one side.
When I got the '67 Newport 383 4bbl, I tried the AVS 3-step rods in it (OEM was the 2-step rods). The AVS rods were not supposed to work in the earlier carb, but again, no real difference that I could quantify. Put it back OEM and no further experimentation.
Optimum "rich" is supposed to be about 12.7 a/f ratio, with cruise being 14.7 a/f ratio with E0 gas.
Without doing a full chassis dyno "road load" cruise a/f ratio check, the next best th8ing is to look at the spark plug insulator color. With something in the range of a J-12Y equivalent plug, ignition total advance of about 38 degrees (which I think you've already talked about), if the plugs have a super-white blistered look, then the mixture can be too lean. But I suspect that before it gets that way, you'd notice a weakness in power going up slight hills at steady throttle with little response as the throttle is cracked a few-hairs-worth of travel to seek to maintain speed. Still with the rods in the basic "economy" position.
The other thing about "lean primary calibrations" is that any "tight" lean calibration on the primaries will need to be compensated for on the secondaries at WOT power. Some of the old Direct Connection Race Manuals addressed carb jetting for various engine/intake manifold/carb combinations. Even back then, some richer-than-OEM recommendations were made!
But BEFORE you go off on a tangent of recalibrating the carb, get the IGNITON right FIRST. Got to have a strong and reliable spark EACH TIME in order to fire-off any mixture in the cylinders.
You can finesse the accel pump shot first by moving the linkage to a different hole and then checking for correct operation. This will raise or lower the pump cup in its bore a bit, for a longer or shorter pump shot duration. This was how we changed the pump shot before we knew about the size of the hole in the shooters (except on Holleys).
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Sending unit has pin holes and is sucking air if no obvious leaks any where else.
Knebel
Senior Member
eddy carbs have issues when above 4.5psi! But....you should investigate the accel pump. It does sound lean and the fact that it dies leads me to believe the pump isnt working right.
kenfyoozed
Member
Accelerate pump cup was the wrong one when I rebuilt it with the kit. I used the blue cup but have an orange on the way. Also will be changing the jets and the metering springs to the orange per another thread I saw. Basically richening up the 1411 to the same specs as the manual chock version. Also have a high-torque starter on the way to help spin her over quicker.
kenfyoozed
Member
Got my parts in today and plan on attacking the carb in the morning. My plan is to replace the accelerator pump and go one stage richer on the power and cruise mode and swap in a larger squirter. Also got a high torque starter to install as well. Any thoughts against my carb change plans? My rational for this is that the 1411 is lean for emissions, and then the ethanol leans it out even more. So I thought just a one stage move for both would be a good thing.
Knebel
Senior Member
Do only the accel pump first and testdrive. The larger nozzel won't give more fuel but rather squirts the same amount quicker. Asmaller nozzle squirts over a more prolonged time (but same amount of fuel). The metering springs you gotta do according to your vacuum!
kenfyoozed
Member
Still haven't been able to get to working on the car yet... So before I do, why wouldn't i go ahead and change the other parts while I am in there? Metering springs should be half vacuum at idle correct?
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