Hard shift

[swisherred]

I have done a few 2bbl to 4bbl conversions before, but have a large box of misc rods and linkage form parts vehicles over the years to draw from. I also will cut, bend and weld if I need to extend a rod or ???

My guess why that rod is upside down is that it is for the 2bbl cab and would have been mounted on the other side of the bracket and in the correct orientation, but that would but the mounting point for the kick down on the carb in the wrong spot, hence the flipped rod, at least it mounts up now. But you may not have enough adjustment to get things set properly, looks like it's threaded out almost all the way now.

in that picture the kickdown lever has no return spring...so its really almost fully engaged as if at full throttle...it comes all the way forward to the carb...I just dont know the physical differences between the parts.

does anyone have a picture of the proper setup so i can compare?

 

[cbarge]

Lemme go through the Boab archives.....

 

[swisherred]

I found this...and its definitely not what I have....this is the 2bbl. 383

 

[cbarge]

I have assembly blueprints. But buried in the basement.
Will post tomorrow

 

[CBODY67]

The MAIN issue I see with your existing KD linkage is that, as mentioned, the KD rod needs a return spring on it too. Otherwise it just "floats" to where what's inside the trans lets it be. More movement toward WOT, the higher the line pressure and harder part-throttle shifts. I also suspect that the bend is where it needs to be, mechanically, for the smoothest action.

There is a screw-on extension for the "rear" rod to lengthen it so the "front" rod can be adjusted correctly. Edelbrock has it. When I went from the orig AFB to a 9801TQ/Torker 383 on my '67 CE23, I needed it. I also got an extra rod from the salvage yard, probably from a 2bbl, that I shortened a bit so the extension would work better.

With what you've got now, a weaker return spring for the KD rod should be all you need. Can probably find something on the HELP rack? Key thing is the length compared to some of the shorter Chevy springs. Pretty much anything will work, as long as it's not fully-tensioned at base curb idle.

Presuming a 2.76 axle ratio, aim for a min-throttle 2-3 upshift at 28-30mph. That should also result in a min-throttle 1-2 upshift at a good point, too. Part-throttle upshifts should be where they'll work well, from my own experiences with the '66 Newport 383 2bbl. With the KD rod return spring, you might be closer than you might suspect.

Keep us posted,
CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

OK... Stop the music!

What makes anyone sure that the linkage is wrong?

It does look like it's mounted upside down, I'll say that.

Burning out the trans will only happen if the linkage isn't there and the line pressure in the trans is minimal. With the spring missing, it's going to a maximum setting so there will be no damage.

So... Now that is out of the way... Flip the linkage and put a rubber band on it for now. If the linkage is bottomed out at idle and topped out at full throttle, you're golden. Once you have that, buy the right spring and go drive the car.

Probably one of these will work.
Bill Rolik Enterprises - N.O.S., Reproduction, and Replacement Chrysler Parts
Bill Rolik Enterprises - N.O.S., Reproduction, and Replacement Chrysler Parts

 

[swisherred]

good thought on the rubber band for testing...it seems to have the proper travel forward and rearward per the throttle shaft...it is mounted upside down...from everything i can find it is at least....I will try the rubber band and order the spring...actually just found the correct spring on ebay for $12 shipped. I think its actually the same one in the above link. have to start somewhere. I would like to know that the other parts are correct for my application. I dont know what they are supposed to look like and i dont know what work was or wasnt done when the carb was replaced.

 

[CBODY67]

From looking at '66 Newport and the '67 Newport, the linkages are of the same configuration, but with parts specific to the 2bbl and 4bbl orig applications. 1965 might well be the same, too? Up to 1968?

Would not matter if it was Chrysler, Plymouth, or Dodge C-body cars, either.

There should be a FSM sectioned-out at www.jholst.net , with some of the later ones at www.mymopar.com.

CBODY67

 

[cbarge]

 

[cbarge]

 

[cbarge]

 

[cbarge]

There is a difference in the kickdown rod,throttle bracket,the swivel where the rods meet.
2bbl stuff is red,4bbl stuff is green.
383 4bbl kickdown return spring yellow with red stripe.
383 4bbl throttle spring green orange stripe.
Even the line pressure lever at the trans is 4bbl specific!
But that one I am still using the 2bbl one with no issues.
Hope this helps.

 

[swisherred]

This did help. I adjusted everything per the manual and used a universal spring for the moment and its much better

 

[cbarge]

This did help. I adjusted everything per the manual and used a universal spring for the moment and its much better

Good.
Light throttle 1-2 shift should be at 10-15 MPH,2-3 at around 20-25 MPH.
If you have the original trans,it will not have the part throttle 3-2 kickdown.
When WOT trans will drop all the way to 1 and upshift to 2 quickly and will stay in 2 up to 70 MPH or until you let up off the gas.
Upshift or downshift should be crisp and not soft. Throttle response should be right there when driving in 3.

 

[swisherred]

My throttle response is still a bit sluggish for wot but I'm pretty sure that's in the carb tuning. I was also 1.5qts low

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Wow, what a cluster for a lousy kickdown adjust.
Put someone in the car foot to the floor, not mashed to the water pump, just floored.
Pull the top rod off flip it over and adjust the threaded portion out to push linkage all the way rearward, if this cannot be adjusted this way because of 2 bbl linkage, put a small bolt/nut in the slot to fill in.
The idea is to let the trans know that you need maximum line pressure because engine is at wot.
The spring only helps with part throttle consistency, which was kind of your original problem. Adjustment may have played a part also.

 

[furious70]

I have done the nut/bolt trick to shorten the slot travel as well. Especially since 70 and up 2bbl linkage is 1 piece you don't have the adjustment options of the older stuff.
I also adjust mine aggressively so that they downshift into 2nd on decel before entering a turn rather than on throttle after the turn. Just like you ride a motorcycle. This requires more than stock default pressure but allow the linkage to still go to WOT, usually done by pinning the kickdown back physically and the the carb picks it up on the way to wot.

 

[cbarge]

Wow, what a cluster for a lousy kickdown adjust.

Are you directing this to the linkage arrangement or members' postings?
At least the OP is making an effort and finding answers on his own and help here from members.
Learn by doing I would say.
None of us here engineered the linkage and Chrysler did simplify it in later years..
I suggested the Lokar to keep it simple.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Are you directing this to the linkage arrangement or members' postings?
At least the OP is making an effort and finding answers on his own and help here from members.
Learn by doing I would say.
None of us here engineered the linkage and Chrysler did simplify it in later years..
I suggested the Lokar to keep it simple.

None, it's obvious that it is a adjustment, holding a gear too long. Holding a gear to to l is not going to fry the trans. Lokar makes some good stuff and if you have no linkage or putting a RB engine in a A body it is a good solution. He has linkage, as evidence by long shift, just needs adjustment. WOT, linkage all the way to the rear, it's that simple. If that can not be achieved something must be done to remedy it, I made the suggestion to install a spacer bolt to help with 2 bbl to 4bbl conversion.
Chasing one piece of linkage is a waste of time and originality is out because a 4bbl is in place, so why chase the proper linkage that's not original.
Following the FSM on how to adjust the linkage is a waste of time unless your chasing that Librarian shift in a Imperial, what the hell for.
I told him how to adjust, gave a solution that does not involve a major reworking of the cars systems and chasing 50+ year old small parts. I also explained what the spring does, as he seemed to be obsessing over it's operation, though he was on the right track with it.
Not picking on anyone, or belittling the OP. I answered the question in one post, not 2 pages of off target information.

 

[cbarge]

None, it's obvious that it is a adjustment, holding a gear too long. Holding a gear to to l is not going to fry the trans. Lokar makes some good stuff and if you have no linkage or putting a RB engine in a A body it is a good solution. He has linkage, as evidence by long shift, just needs adjustment. WOT, linkage all the way to the rear, it's that simple. If that can not be achieved something must be done to remedy it, I made the suggestion to install a spacer bolt to help with 2 bbl to 4bbl conversion.
Chasing one piece of linkage is a waste of time and originality is out because a 4bbl is in place, so why chase the proper linkage that's not original.
Following the FSM on how to adjust the linkage is a waste of time unless your chasing that Librarian shift in a Imperial, what the hell for.
I told him how to adjust, gave a solution that does not involve a major reworking of the cars systems and chasing 50+ year old small parts. I also explained what the spring does, as he seemed to be obsessing over it's operation, though he was on the right track with it.
Not picking on anyone, or belittling the OP. I answered the question in one post, not 2 pages of off target information.

Thanks for clarifying and keeping things on track.
Sometimes when learning something new people can read into it too much when trying to understand.
He asked for pictures,which i provided.
I agree not much point chasing original parts.
I did not follow the FSM either since I had modified my engine and trans internals so the book was useless.
Pretty much went by test and tune.
Cheers!