Heavy Metal

[Snotty]

Recall the objective is not to "debate" what the best WWII fighter plane was. Just the one we subjectively "liked" the best.

Our particular picks may/may not actually be the "best", but folks ("experts") with time/energy/knowledge studied them (in case that wasn't any one of our expertise) and have opinions.

"Experts" will disagree too .. but many of them invest lots of time in actual data (i.e., more than a casual follower like many of us may be) to help inform their judgements.

I am putting a link below and a studied ranking somebody came up with for the top 25 WWII fighters. Again, not to debate, but if you wanna learn/confirm more from detailed aircraft comparisons, its there.

Maybe something you forgt about will come to mind, or you can find your favorite and see what comparative data this "expert" collected on the rig.

No plane appears to be the best at everything, but some where better than most at a lot of performance attributes.

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source: https://www.thetoptens.com/fighter-planes-world-war-ii/

"Best Fighter Planes of World War II

If you were a fighter pilot during WWII and you're going to fly over Europe and the Pacific, you will be in dog fights.

You will act as an escort for bombers over Europe, and air to ground support in both theatres. You will also strafe ground targets and ships.

Which plane would you want to fly?

Things to consider:

• Top speed & maneuverability (at high and low altitudes)
• Durability
• Visibility (from the cockpit)
• Safety
• Armament
• Range
• Overall flying performance
• Kill Ratio vs. Opponents

TOP 25

1. Supermarine Spitfire
2. North American P-51D Mustang
3. Focke-Wulf FW 190
4. Messerschmitt bf 109K
5. Vought F4U Corsair
6. Mitsubishi Zero
7. Grumman F6F Hellcat
8. Messerschmitt Me 262
9. Republic P-47D Thunderbolt
10. Hawker Hurricane
11. Lockheed P-38 Lightning
12. Fiat G.55 Centauro ("Axis" plane from Italy)
13. Kawanishi N1K-J Shiden
14. Yakovlev Yak-3 (Russia)
15. Blohm & Voss BV-238 (Germany)
16. Curtiss P-40 Warhawk
17. Heinkel He 280 (a jet, lost out to Me 262)
18. Bell P-39 Airacobra
19. Macchi M.C. 205V Veltro (Italy)
20. Hawker Typhoon
21. Junkers Ju 87
22. Lockheed P-38J Lightning
23. Focke-Wulf Ta 152 H-1
24. Nakajima ki-87
25. IAR 80 (Romania)

The JU87 was not a fighter.

 

[amazinblue82]

The JU87 was not a fighter.

I took the author's list of "fighter planes" as it was presented -- i made no attempt to proof the list.

Author phrased his opening inquiry as if addressed to "fighter pilots" -- "if you did one of these things in the war, what plane would you want?" -- of planes that fought other planes in the air, as well as attacked enemy tanks//troops and other ground targets.

I also don't know my WWII manufacturer names that well ... a JU 87 had a more common name to me as the "Stuka".

That name I know and would have recognized it as a "dive bomber". As such, it still seems it would fit the author's scope of study given its as a "dive bomber" with ground-attack duties.

The Stuka was a prominent airplane in the German military and may have had other characteristics (e.g., "Jericho's Trumpet") the author thought put it somewhere in his "Top 25" of WWII "fighting" aircraft.

 

[amazinblue82]

Some other "experts" list of 10 best WWII "fighters". I include these since they listed some comparative performance specs across all their selections.

The 10 minute video has some words about each plane. While the same prop planes we see most often came up, NO early jet was mentioned.

Their overall No. 1? Lockheed P-38 Lightning. Fastest? P-51 Mustang. Highest Service Ceiling? P-38 @ 44,000 ft.

 

[Snotty]

The P-38 was a great plane and saw service through the entire war. Only the Spitfire, 109, and Zero could say the same. It also served as a ground attack and photoreconnaissance aircraft. Its speed helped it in the latter aspect. It was the only in this list that could keep flying after losing an engine!

 

[amazinblue82]

A few of these birds on our list starting up.

Most a little rough at first .. could be cuz they are 80 years old and/or various levels of restoration.. but wonder if they were so "crotchety" even back in their day?

RR Merlins, P&W Double Wasps, Allison 1710 V12s, German & Japanese equivalents.. anybody know?

 

[LocuMob]

I was fortunate to have the Planes of Fame just a few miles away when I was growing up. They would fly right over the house and all over the area, and I completely took it for granted. I never saw a show they put on, but I was able to check out the aircraft that were parked outside, the B-17 they had among others. I wish I would have become a member back then, I had a couple of friend that were, and still are, into flying. But I was too busy with my girlfriend when I had wheels, and they moved shortly after. I do love seeing the old planes at air shows, just something about the prop driven warbirds that will never be matched. I'll have to go to one if they come around my area. And see the Thunderbirds again, Id like to see the Blue Angels if I ever get the chance.

 

[amazinblue82]

Lockheed P-38 Lightning

Yes a "twin boom" design like the Northrop P-61 Black Widow (post #1,763 above), the latter being a "night-fighter" as well as being bigger than the P-38 and coming operational a few years later in WWII than P-38.

Why "twin booms" in any given design? General information is here: Twin-boom aircraft - Wikipedia

 

[barnfind]

According to my reading the hellcat had downed more aircraft than the f4u. I believe the f4u served up until 1969

 

[LocuMob]

What do you get when you cross a P-38 and a P-51? A P-82 Twin Mustang.

North American F-82 Twin Mustang - Wikipedia

 

[amazinblue82]

What do you get when you cross a P-38 and a P-51? A P-82 Twin Mustang.

From the wiki source above:

P-82B-NA "Betty Jo" taking off from Hickam Field, Hawaii, 27 February 1947

​

"Record-setting​

On 27 February 1947, P-82B, named Betty Jo and flown by Colonel Robert E. Thacker, made history when it flew nonstop from Hawaii to New York without refueling, a distance of 5,051 mi (8,129 km) in 14 hr 32 min. It averaged 347.5 mph (559.2 km/h).

This flight tested the P-82's range. The aircraft carried a full internal fuel tank of 576 US gal (2,180 l; 480 imp gal), augmented by four 310 US gal (1,200 l; 260 imp gal) tanks for a total of 1,816 US gal (6,870 l; 1,512 imp gal).

Colonel Thacker did not drop three external tanks when their fuel was expended, either because of an oversight, or because they were stuck due to a mechanical glitch.

This remains the longest nonstop flight ever made by a propeller-driven fighter, and the fastest time in which such a distance has ever been covered in a piston-engine aircraft. The aircraft chosen was an earlier "B" model powered by Rolls-Royce Merlin engines."

 

[3175375]

Thanks for your input.

The "Black Widow" IS a bad-a**.

As I noted, I just started with the five fighters from the seven-yr-old thread. Also noted, of course, that if people wanted to "vote" for other WWII planes (fighters or not) they should feel free to do so.

Practically speaking, there were hundreds of different aircraft used in WWII (fighters light/heavy, bombers (light/medium/heavy), fuelers, seaplanes, etc). Just limited it to five to try to do a poor man's survey on a "manageable" basis.

Let's add a few to the formal survey of fighters. "Walk-on" preferences are still invited .. but again we can "survey" hundreds of planes. End of this week we'll see what people think ranked by these nine/any walk-on planes

The candidates (no particular order).

1. Supermarine Spitfire (Britain)
2. Mitsubishi Zero (Japan)
3. North American P-51 Mustang (USA)
4. Messerschmitt bf 109 (Germany)
5. Messerschmitt me 262 (Germany)
6. Vought F4U Corsair (USA, see post #1,778)
7. Focke-Wulf 190 (Germany)
8. Republic P-47 Tuhunderbolt (USA)
9. Northrup P-61 Black Widow (USA)

P-38 ‘forked devil’ should be #10

 

[amazinblue82]

Folks .. i am gonna stop collecting "votes" this weekend -- put a

by the posted pic of the plane you think is the "best".

If you don't have a preference of one of our ten "fighter" candidates, and wanna put up some other favorite WWII bird, please do so.

One "vote" per plane, per member, please.

The candidates (no particular rank order).

1. Supermarine Spitfire (Britain, see post #1,768)
2. Mitsubishi Zero (Japan, see post #1,769)
3. North American P-51 Mustang (USA, see post #1,770)
4. Messerschmitt bf 109 (Germany, see post #1,771)
5. Messerschmitt me 262 (Germany, see post #1,772)
6. Vought F4U Corsair (USA, see post #1,778)
7. Focke-Wulf 190 (Germany, see post #1,781)
8. Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA, see post #1,782)
9. Northrup P-61 Black Widow (USA, see post #1,783)
10. Lockheed P-38 Lightning (USA, see post #1,807)



Thanks for your help!

 

[67newport]

 

[67newport]

 

[67newport]

 

[barnfind]

Focke wulf TA 183 would have been a fierce opponent if it had come to fruition.

 

[amazinblue82]

1. Supermarine Spitfire (Britain, see post #1,768)
2. Mitsubishi Zero (Japan, see post #1,769)
3. North American P-51 Mustang (USA, see post #1,770)
4. Messerschmitt bf 109 (Germany, see post #1,771)
5. Messerschmitt me 262 (Germany, see post #1,772)
6. Vought F4U Corsair (USA, see post #1,778)
7. Focke-Wulf 190 (Germany, see post #1,781)
8. Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (USA, see post #1,782)
9. Northrup P-61 Black Widow (USA, see post #1,783)
10. Lockheed P-38 Lightning (USA, see post #1,807)

The interested members of the forum have spoken.

The "Best" WWII "fighter" was the F4U Corsair. Runner-up was the P-51 Mustang.

Thanks folks.

 

[Snotty]

RR Merlins, P&W Double Wasps, Allison 1710 V12s, German & Japanese equivalents.. anybody know?

For some of the German engines, inline Vs were built by Daimler Benz or Junkers. The JU87 used Junkers Jumo engines. Same company built their jet engines. Radial engines, like on the FW190, JU88, and others, were built by BMW. For the Japanese, I know the radial used in the Zero was built by Mitsubishi. Fiat built a lot of the engines used on Italian planes.

 

[amazinblue82]

I was gonna do a survey on the WWII medium/heavy bombers .. looks like we have most all of them, and their successors, here already spread all through the thread. So we can skip the survey

• B-17 Flying Fortress
• B-24 Liberator
• B-25 Mitchell
• B-26 Marauder (not posted here yet)
• B-29 Superfortress
• B-32 Dominator (not posted here yet)

My rationale is I just never heard of the other medium/heavy bombers the other WWII combatants used ... like the very first jet bomber. Germany's Arado Ar-234 Blitz.

source: Arado Ar 234 - Wikipedia

"The Arado Ar 234 Blitz (English: lightning) was the world's first operational jet-powered bomber, built by the German Arado company during World War II.

Produced in limited numbers it was used almost entirely for aerial reconnaissance. It was the last Luftwaffe aircraft to fly over the UK during the war, in April 1945."

Only one Ar 234 [of over 200 aircraft built] survives today -- a B-2 bomber variant with manufacturer's serial number 140312. It was one of nine Ar 234s surrendered to British forces at Sola Airfield near Stavanger, Norway.

The one surviving plane is at the National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Virginia.

General characteristics (there were over two dozen variants on this airframe)

• Crew: 1
• Length: 12.64 m (41 ft 6 in)
• Wingspan: 14.41 m (47 ft 3 in)
• Height: 4.29 m (14 ft 1 in)
• Wing area: 26.4 m2 (284 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 5,200 kg (11,464 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 9,800 kg (21,605 lb)
• Powerplant: 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B-1 axial flow turbojet engines, 8.83 kN (1,990 lbf) thrust each
• Powerplant: 2 × Walter HWK 109-500A-1 Starthilfe liquid fuelled jettisonable JATO rocket pods, 4.905 kN (1,103 lbf) thrust each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 742 km/h (461 mph, 401 kn) at 6,000 m (20,000 ft)
• Cruise speed: 700 km/h (430 mph, 380 kn) at 6,000 m (20,000 ft)
• Range: 1,556 km (967 mi, 840 nmi) with 500 kg (1,100 lb) bomb load
• Service ceiling: 10,000 m (33,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: 13 m/s (2,600 ft/min)

Armament

• Bombs: up to 1,500 kg (3,309 lb) of disposable stores on external racks

 

[amazinblue82]

The Avro Lancaster (Britain)

source: Avro Lancaster - Wikipedia

General characteristics

• Crew: 7: pilot, flight engineer, navigator, bomb aimer/nose gunner, wireless operator, mid-upper and rear gunners
• Length: 69 ft 4 in (21.13 m)
• Wingspan: 102 ft 0 in (31.09 m)
• Height: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
• Wing area: 1,297 sq ft (120.5 m2)
• Airfoil: root: NACA 23018; tip: NACA 23012[156]
• Empty weight: 36,900 lb (16,738 kg)
• Gross weight: 55,000 lb (24,948 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 68,000 lb (30,844 kg)
• Powerplant: 4 × Rolls-Royce Merlin XX V-12 liquid-cooled piston engines, 1,280 hp (950 kW) each
• Propellers: 3-bladed

Performance

• Maximum speed: 282 mph (454 km/h, 245 kn) at 63,000 lb (28,576 kg) and 13,000 ft (3,962 m) altitude
• Cruise speed: 200 mph (320 km/h, 170 kn)
• Range: 2,530 mi (4,070 km, 2,200 nmi)
• Service ceiling: 21,400 ft (6,500 m) at 63,000 lb (29,000 kg)
• Rate of climb: 720 ft/min (3.7 m/s) at 63,000 lb (29,000 kg) and 9,200 ft (2,800 m) altitude

Armament

• Guns: Two 0.303-inch (7.7 mm) Browning Mark II machine guns in nose turret, two 0.303-inch Browning Mark II machine guns in upper turret, and four 0.303-inch Browning Mark II machine guns in the rear turret. (Early aircraft had two Brownings in a ventral turret aimed from within the aircraft via a periscope.)
• Bombs: Maximum normal bomb load of 14,000 lb (6,400 kg) of bombs

Seven minutes of flying and four Merlins soundin' off.


FIve minutes of Lancaster taxiing and Merlins sounding off .....