69 300 vert
Well-Known Member
Experts: thoughts?
HEI Vs Points Showdown
- Thread starter 69 300 vert
- Start date
40k volts will produce a spark the same length regardless of how the coil is triggered. With all things being equal the vehicle would run about the same. The important caveat is that there are no wear parts in the HEI or other electronic ignition, no points to go out of adjustment or corrode and no distributor condenser to fail. Points are a time tested and proven method of ignition that can usually be repaired on the road with a simple adjustment or filing of the contact set. Electronic circuits when they fail usually stay dead and a tow is usually necessary unless the user carries spare brain boxes and modules. So which is better? My choice for most older car applications that are not driven a lot is to stay with points. There are increasing problems with finding quality replacement points and condensers, so some ebay surfing is necessary to find US made units which are far better than China Crap. There is also a lot of problems with electronic ignition components that are made overseas to very low standards of quality control and a lot of new Electronic units fail pretty quickly. If choosing to go electronic, be sure to buy a unit with US sourced electronics and it should perform well.
Rich Rehrenberg supplies units that have all US sourced electronics and they are not that much more expensive.
Dave
Rich Rehrenberg supplies units that have all US sourced electronics and they are not that much more expensive.
Dave
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69 300 vert
Well-Known Member
That was my thought as well, he's testing coils, not primary ignition systems. I have no argument with the rest of it, but the quality of condensers today makes the points look good. 2¢
The Goose
Senior Member
In my 43 years of driving I’ve never been stranded because of a point type ignition. WD40 for water or spare parts, points for brand X and for a Mopar a spare dist (faster in the dark than a point swap).
The electronic ignitions in my 70’s cudas... no comment.
I the real world with both applications using the best quality parts available I find the Chrysler version of HEI to be rock solid reliable. Always starts My 300 vert For the past 8 years and 8000 miles. A points and condenser can't do that.
The Mopar units that were made here are very reliable. The replacement units made today are from overseas and the quality sucks.
Dave
I noticed he wasn't using a ballast resistor when running the points, not that you would for drag racing I guess. How big would the arc be with the coil running 6 or 7 volts with the ballast as on a street car?
Not all coils are created equal. Most Mopar coils of the 60's and 70's for street use were still 6volt units, those required the ballast resistor and would overheat pretty quickly without one. The specialty racing coils were usually 12v and did not need the resistor.
Dave
Thanks Dave for this. I have asked so many people this question and never got a logical answer. Question being , On a points ignition with ballast resistor which coil should you run, a 12 volt coil or a 6 volt coil? 95% said "It's a 12 volt car and needs a 12 volt coil." Then I say that I have read that putting 6 volts to a 12 volt coil will not be 1/2 the output voltage, it will be less than half. They were not convinced and not one person has ever said use a 6 volt coil. After researching this I stuck in a 6 volt coil in my 440 and have had no problems and my plugs are always a good color and never fouled and are clean. I have run this coil for 3 years now with no problems. I guess you could use a stock 12 volt coil and remove the ballast and of course wear out your points in short order ,maybe the condensor too but does a 12 volt rated coil on 12 volts put out more spark energy than a 6 volt coil on 6 volts and if so by how much? I do know a 12 volt coil on 6 volts is poor.
The 6v and 12v coils have a different field winding. The static charge that fires off should be about the same if they are both wired for the same output.
Dave
The automakers started converting from 6v cars to 12v cars in the early 50's. Most of the manufacturers did not convert to 12v coils immediately. The 6v coils had several decades of reliable use and functioned just as well by adding a ballast resistor.
Dave
Dave
The 12v coil with the ballast resistor removed actually puts less load on the points than a 6volt unit. Trick is you have to use 12v rated condenser.
Dave
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Are they available? Never seen them.
Those were mostly a race application. There were lots of 12v coils with electronic ignition, especially on the later systems. Part of the advantage of using a ballast resistor is the the output can be jumped temporarily when starting the engine. 6v coil gets 12v for a short time and a hotter spark. With a 12v coil, cranking the engine draws a lot of amperage and the spark gets weaker and hard starting can result. Mopar retained the ballast resistors on their first generation electronic ignition. The conversion kit from points came with an updated ballast resistor that ran at a little higher voltage 8.5-9 volts.
Dave
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Gerald Morris
Senior Member
Amen! I ALWAYS go with NOS points and condensers from eBay, obtained for no more $ than sino-sewage from Vato-Oh-Really-Boyz. I use Rajah plug terminals with these, NOS cap & rotor in copper/brass, Packard 440 wire on Champion J12YC plugs. Consequently, Mathilda runs VERY nicely. I copped a shaft collar to minimize spark scatter from Rick-O, along with numerous other parts, all of these excellent quality.
I HAD a 66 NYer w a Mopar orange box-reluctor running a 440 15 yrs ago, and that thing gave me conniptions, despite the huge Accel 80kV coil and such. The man who sold it to me was (hopefully IS to this day!) an excellent Mopar hot-rodder firmly of the High Displacement School, but HIS ONE weakness was ELECTRICAL MATTERS. Alas.....
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
A 6V coil likely has a lower primary side impedance (think resistance) than the 12V coil. Adding the ballast resistor assured that the primary wouldn't burn up in a 12V circuit. Since impedance consists of both the wire resistance AND the MAGNETIC reactance contra the changing current, your 6V coil should produce good secondary (spark) voltage and may well outlast a 12V coil due to having more of the primary circuit impedance as just pure resistance. I'll dig into this tidbit a bit, though you've been superbly told the essentials by Dave.
78Brougham
"Chump"
It's been my experience that a coil will produce what the plug needs. Most plugs gapped at .030 will fire at 5-8k at idle, around 15k at higher speeds. You can have a 250k coil but if it only requires 8-15k to fire the plug that's all you're gonna get.
You want more volts? Open the gap up.
You want more volts? Open the gap up.
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