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Missourati

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Good ol ammeter. I think Ralph Nader missed one with this terrific design. Thank god the dash was apart and I saw it smoking otherwise I would have had a surprise barbecue. I want to bypass it entirely but need to know the safest way so this doesn't pop up again. I saw a lot of people using fusible links but I'm curious if a fuse would also work just for ease of repair. I was thinking of just soldering the two non burned ends together because I don't really want a voltmeter jutting out of the dashboard like a boil, but I'm open to suggestions. The simpler the better. Thanks!


'61 Dart Seneca 225ci



IMG_9350.jpeg
 
That's a lot of corrosion. If you still have the ring terminal in each wire you can just use a small bolt to put them together. Tape it up good.

I would still do the under hood bypass because it lightens the load going through the firewall and into the interior of the car. When I made the fusible link for the bypass I made an extra an put it in my glove box.
 
Last edited:
Missourati said:
Good ol ammeter. I think Ralph Nader missed one with this terrific design. Thank god the dash was apart and I saw it smoking otherwise I would have had a surprise barbecue. I want to bypass it entirely but need to know the safest way so this doesn't pop up again. I saw a lot of people using fusible links but I'm curious if a fuse would also work just for ease of repair. I was thinking of just soldering the two non burned ends together because I don't really want a voltmeter jutting out of the dashboard like a boil, but I'm open to suggestions. The simpler the better. Thanks!


'61 Dart Seneca 225ci



View attachment 667501
Click to expand...
I think soldering the charge wires together is a viable solution.
Others run a second output wire off the alternator to the starter relay.
 
Missourati said:
Could I also insert a single fuse block, and if so what amperage?
Click to expand...
All the cars power runs through the ammeter, it would have to be quite a large amperage fuse. The underhood bypass is a great option to lighten the load running into the car
 
Missourati said:
Could I also insert a single fuse block, and if so what amperage?
Click to expand...
Too much volts/amps for a fuse. Maybe a circuit breaker but why? Solder the two wires together, run the bypass to the starter relay, and forget the ammeter.

That said, I didn't use a fusible link, but you can run a fusible link in the charge wire. Usually a fusible link is 4 gauge sizes smaller than the wire gauge, example an 8 gauge wire might have a #12 fusible link.
 
I cut out the ammeter wires and made a little connector wire with alligator clips to check the amps and turned it over when it started slightly smoking again. The wires get nuclear almost immediately so I'm going to go with the engine bay bypass solution. What is the step by step so I don't lose my headlights and gauges at the worst possible time, which is any time.
 
For this, you just need to connect the wires together that went through the ammeter. When you do the underhood bypass, you want to use a fusible link. The fusible link takes surges in current better than a fuse will. To get a fuse that won't blow during a surge, it has to be higher amperage and then you lose protection.

Missourati said:
I cut out the ammeter wires and made a little connector wire with alligator clips to check the amps and turned it over when it started slightly smoking again. The wires get nuclear almost immediately so I'm going to go with the engine bay bypass solution. What is the step by step so I don't lose my headlights and gauges at the worst possible time, which is any time.
Click to expand...
As I kind of figured from looking at the picture, the ammeter has been blamed for some other short in the wiring. You want to find that before you do anything else.

Does this car still have a generator? Any major changes to the electrical system? The underhood bypass procedures you see are aimed at newer cars with alternators, so a car with a generator will be different.

Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd look at fixing what's there and find another ammeter. You have a combination of low charging current (generator) and a fairly robust stock ammeter (don't listen to the naysayers that aren't familiar with your older car).
 
Big_John said:
For this, you just need to connect the wires together that went through the ammeter. When you do the underhood bypass, you want to use a fusible link. The fusible link takes surges in current better than a fuse will. To get a fuse that won't blow during a surge, it has to be higher amperage and then you lose protection.


As I kind of figured from looking at the picture, the ammeter has been blamed for some other short in the wiring. You want to find that before you do anything else.

Does this car still have a generator? Any major changes to the electrical system? The underhood bypass procedures you see are aimed at newer cars with alternators, so a car with a generator will be different.

Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd look at fixing what's there and find another ammeter. You have a combination of low charging current (generator) and a fairly robust stock ammeter (don't listen to the naysayers that aren't familiar with your older car).
Click to expand...
It has an alternator. The only thing I can think of is I'm 99% sure it's got a new(er) alternator that puts out 60 amps and as per my service manual, the original was for 35-40 amps. The weird thing is I used to drive it all the time and it would smoke from time to time but never like this, maybe the corrosion over the years made it worse. I took off the alternator yesterday to see how many amps it put out but parts store said they couldn't test it if it's externally regulated. So I'll try to use a multimeter to find out. Barring anything else I guess I'd want to try the trick of using a thick wire from the alternator to the battery(?) to take the burden off the thinner wires but am unfamiliar.
 
Missourati said:
The weird thing is I used to drive it all the time and it would smoke from time to time but never like this, maybe the corrosion over the years made it worse.
Click to expand...
Wow... And you just figured that was OK?

Yes, corrosion makes it worse... It adds resistance and resistance causes heat.

Before you do anything else, fix whatever is shorting. It wasn't the ammeter.
 
Missourati said:
It has an alternator. The only thing I can think of is I'm 99% sure it's got a new(er) alternator that puts out 60 amps and as per my service manual, the original was for 35-40 amps. The weird thing is I used to drive it all the time and it would smoke from time to time but never like this, maybe the corrosion over the years made it worse. I took off the alternator yesterday to see how many amps it put out but parts store said they couldn't test it if it's externally regulated. So I'll try to use a multimeter to find out. Barring anything else I guess I'd want to try the trick of using a thick wire from the alternator to the battery(?) to take the burden off the thinner wires but am unfamiliar.
Click to expand...
• After Main shunt at ammeter broke on my 1970 Fury
• Bypass: 10 gauge black wire from alternator output post to starter relay battery post. (approx. 60 inches)
• .25” ring terminal at alternator
• 5/16” ring terminal at starter relay
• Idle Began 15V @ alt, 14.5V at battery. 2000 rpm: 14.95 V max. Voltage regulator was working.
• After charging a few minutes: 14.5V at alt, 14.0V at battery. 13.56V at battery with HL on. No more overcharging.
Comments
*I think your original idea of bypassing the ammeter by soldering the 2 wires together is valid.
*After you set up the bypass, you need to look to see if you have have an overcharging from the 60 amp alternator causing the smoking. If so, recommend replace voltage regulator.
*I recommend an ignition-on voltmeter under the dash to monitor charge
 
65sporty said:
All the cars power runs through the ammeter, it would have to be quite a large amperage fuse. The underhood bypass is a great option to lighten the load running into the car
Click to expand...
"All the cars power runs through the ammeter"
No it doesn't. This is the case ONLY when the engine isn't running and the battery, itself, is supplying the power.
Once the alternator (or generator) starts working the current flow through the ammeter changes direction and ALL of the power required to run the vehicle is derived from the alternator side of the ammeter and only enough current to replenish the battery after initial start-up then to maintain the battery actually flows through the ammeter itself.

Adding an under-hood bypass defeats the operation of the ammeter and is only used when you replace the ammeter with a volt meter.
 
Just a quick note, how clean are the battery posts and clamps? Corrosion or black oxide creates resistance that makes it harder to charge the battery and to overcome this the regulator will increase the voltage to compensate. If bad enough the voltage increases with rpm increase, and I've seen charge voltages of 17 volts or higher. This will overheat the bulkhead connector and the ammeter. The battery posts and connectors must be shiny clean and to prevent future corrosion you can coat the posts and cables with vasoline or dielectric grease. The ammeter and wiring were originally intended for the standard 37 amp or the 45 amp alternators in AC equiped cars and 50 amps in "Special" cars (police). 60 amp alternators would benefit from a 10 gauge or 8 gauge connection direct to the starter relay. also check that the negative connection at the engine block is clean with no paint or rust under it and do the same for the block to firewall ground strap if your vehicle is equiped with one
 
I recently removed and refurbished the wiring harness in my '68 300, including the engine harness and the dash harness. Some of the connectors looked okay but most of the wires and connectors had corrosion that required replacing.

Based on the picture you posted of your ammeter, I wouldn't trust any of the electricals. I would start looking into replacing all of the wiring in the car.

It may be overkill and it may not be necessary but that is a lot of rust and corrosion, in my opinion, to just connect both ammeter wires together and call it good, even with the bypass wiring. Especially if you are running an upgraded alternator.

This may not be in the budget or your skillset but it would definitely be a wise investment if you want peace of mind that the car won't melt from the inside out.

Sorry to see you're dealing with this and glad you caught it before it became a bigger problem. Good luck with whatever you decide!
 
So technically you need to eliminate those wires, strip a new one from the distribution point behind the dash to the battery (or starter) with a fuseable like or at least a circuit breaker. Just one wire

Then strip another 2nd wire from the alternator to the battery positive. Done.
 
1970FuryConv said:
• After Main shunt at ammeter broke on my 1970 Fury
• Bypass: 10 gauge black wire from alternator output post to starter relay battery post. (approx. 60 inches)
• .25” ring terminal at alternator
• 5/16” ring terminal at starter relay
• Idle Began 15V @ alt, 14.5V at battery. 2000 rpm: 14.95 V max. Voltage regulator was working.
• After charging a few minutes: 14.5V at alt, 14.0V at battery. 13.56V at battery with HL on. No more overcharging.
Comments
*I think your original idea of bypassing the ammeter by soldering the 2 wires together is valid.
*After you set up the bypass, you need to look to see if you have have an overcharging from the 60 amp alternator causing the smoking. If so, recommend replace voltage regulator.
*I recommend an ignition-on voltmeter under the dash to monitor charge
Click to expand...
@stu’s68furyiiirat
You clicked Disagree on this post, but did not say what you disagree with.
???
Please have the courtesy to explain what you think is wrong. Thanks
 
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