HP2
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69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Engine colors are posted in various TSBs -
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/69-25-1_page5.jpg
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1968/68-25-01 page4.jpg
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1970/70-25-1 page5.jpg
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1972/25-01-72C page_5.jpg
They are, for the most part, pretty accurate. The known changes (340 orange to blue transition) are also pretty well documented by hobbyists.
Thanks for the sheet. The 70 C body E86 U code with A/C assembly was 118.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
K vs L.
There was, supposedly, no K VIN 350 horse engine for non “police” applications for the 69 Plymouth C body like there was Dodge.
My gut feel is the 360 horse “pursuit” is the standard K code assembly with an unsilenced air cleaner. Therefore, I’m guessing the assembly codes the same as all other similar K code C bodies.
The L is the standard 375 horse assembly.
As most 440/350s were single exhaust, I suspect the 440/360 Pursuit had dual exhausts rather than the single exhaust of the 440/350. An easy 10 horsepower, usually. Add the unsilenced air cleaner and the HP manifolds to round out the package? Thoughts on my suspicion?
AFAIK, the "Six Pack" /heavy rods didn't exist prior to the 1969 1/2 440 6bbl engine? So, no 440/375 from 1967 would not have had them?
AFAIK, all B/RB cranks were steel cranks, until about the '72 model year? Which generates the cast-crank-specific harmonic balancer.. Steel cranks did exist, according to the parts book, until the 1974 model year, but in 4-speed only B-bodies.
I know that we all like to believe that the Mopar Cop Car Engines were the strongest thing around, but in fact, they were pretty stock, with a few durability additions. Like Tri-Metal bearings on the HP motors, double-roller timing chains, windage trays, in addition to the normal police/fleet items of specific alternators, chassis/body wiring, front seat packages, and other items specific to police-only vehicles. The Dealer Order Guide's "Specifications" section would detail the "better bearings" and such in their normal HP engine descriptions. Can't forget the moly-infused compression piston rings!
The specific Police Car sales brochures mentioned these things, too. There are some of these publications for download on the Internet, but it can take some looking to find them, as I did.
As for the "HP2" blocks, when we were discussing this in one of our old North Loop Dodge Performance team member discussions, there was allegedly something magic about them. But, as mentioned, it was more what was INSIDE them than the block itself. It was mentioned that most of the HP engines were built in the second shift, hence the "HP2" stamp on many . . . IF that was indeed accurate.
There is also some alleged magic in the "hourglass" water passage holes in the deck of the 440 MHC blocks. As if those engines need more coolant flow than a normal passenger car/light truck engine might? BUT when the head gasket is laid onto the deck, that "hourglass" is covered over by a coolant flow restrictor that has only ONE smaller hole in it, as a normal B/RB engine would have.
End result, the "hourglass" was a visual cue for the assembly line people to know what was going into the particular machined block. Similar to the "HP" stamp.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Six pack rods started for the 1970 model year in 440 HP 4bbl engines and 440 six pack engines. Same with the 6 quart oil pan, and skid plate k member.
1969 six pack cars with the lift off hoods had LY rods, 402 oil pan, no skid plate on the K member.
1969 six pack cars with the lift off hoods had LY rods, 402 oil pan, no skid plate on the K member.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
The K code 350 horse dual exhaust assembly already existed for the fullsize Dodge and T&C wagon (with no change in rating)so plopping one in a PK engine compartment, adding the unsilenced air cleaner and claiming another 10 HP was really no big deal. Again, this could be easily documented with K code 'cop car' BS and one from a wagon. I think you'd find they are the same assembly. (Reason #752 WHY people should save sheets from cars that get parted.)
The assemblies used in 'cop cars' are the same as used in passenger cars. There is no special magic, treatment or components to Mopar 'cop car' assemblies. By turning to the right at the assembly plant instead of the left, the assembly went in a C body police cruiser and not a GTX or R/T.
In the 1977 Plymouth Police Car brochure it's called Heavy Duty rather than High Performance. The Heavy Duty versions had some specifics reserved for police cars that were mainly meant to enhance their durability.
Other than the 1966 Chrysler "TNT" 440/standard cam/dual exhaust motor, the later 440/std cam dual exhaust motors have seemed to be something that I just missed (other than some C-body wagon applications), over the years. The orig "TNT" was rated at 365 horsepower, with the dual snorkel air cleaner, so the later engines at 360 horsepower can be "in the ball park".
In the law enforcement trade, the car companies always play up the toughness of their vehicles offered for such service. Liberal use of "Heavy Duty" proliferates in their sales brochures, typically, for the basic vehicle's attributes. But one must consider "heavy duty" compared to what?
A little detour, of my experiences. In the middle '80s, the dealership I work for was doing some courtesy deliveries for the local county Sheriff of three new Impala police package sedans. Only way to get a 350 V-8 in that car, rather than the normal 305. So I got permission to drive one down the road. The first thing I noticed was how much firmer it felt, even compared to a F41 Caprice. Both seemed stiffer, too. These things surprised me a bit. Of course, the LM1-spec 350 had a bit more power than the normal LG4 305.
On the window sticker, under standard equipment was "Heavy Duty Frame". Certainly felt like it had one, BUT no such thing existed in the parts book, even in the Police/Taxi section. Which made me wonder if all of the replacement frames were "Heavy Duty" in nature, as the verified police cars had? Never did find out the answer to that one.
The same might be said of using the phrase "High Performance". Compared to what? Certainly the earlier <200 horserpower V-8s were "high performance" compared to the inline 6-cyls they replaced or were upgraded from.
In '58, all of Ford's 352 4bbl V-8s were termed "Police Interceptor", as were the Cruise-O-Matic transmissions attached to them, even in a normal Ford Country Sedan station wagon. Which probably had more horsepower than the later 4.6L Crown Victoria "Police Interceptor" sedans.
In 1960, Ford had their 352/360 "Police Special" V-8. Bigger Holley 4bbl, mechanical lifters, better exhaust manifolds, open element air cleaner. Later was the 390/330 V-8, still with the mechanical valve lifters. Kind of like hiding your highest-performance V-8 (before the 406s and 427s) in police guise.
Can't forget "Pursuit"! Another word to imply power and sustained high speed capabilities. Which Chrysler's police units were famous for. Only the Ford 390s came close, by observation.
And then, some smaller municipalities would buy normal cars and put police equipment on them. Good enough for their uses, in quieter places. "Faux" police cars?
The thing about all of these marketing things is that many times, the people making the purchase decisions didn't really know cars, just what they read. So if a manufacturer didn't use the descriptive words, but another one did, that might cost them some sales. Although everybody knew the particular brand was "heavy duty" enough for police work as it was. So one of those "danged if you do, danged if you don't" situations. So the opportunities were used to seemingly best advantage by many.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
In the law enforcement trade, the car companies always play up the toughness of their vehicles offered for such service. Liberal use of "Heavy Duty" proliferates in their sales brochures, typically, for the basic vehicle's attributes. But one must consider "heavy duty" compared to what?
A little detour, of my experiences. In the middle '80s, the dealership I work for was doing some courtesy deliveries for the local county Sheriff of three new Impala police package sedans. Only way to get a 350 V-8 in that car, rather than the normal 305. So I got permission to drive one down the road. The first thing I noticed was how much firmer it felt, even compared to a F41 Caprice. Both seemed stiffer, too. These things surprised me a bit. Of course, the LM1-spec 350 had a bit more power than the normal LG4 305.
On the window sticker, under standard equipment was "Heavy Duty Frame". Certainly felt like it had one, BUT no such thing existed in the parts book, even in the Police/Taxi section. Which made me wonder if all of the replacement frames were "Heavy Duty" in nature, as the verified police cars had? Never did find out the answer to that one.
The same might be said of using the phrase "High Performance". Compared to what? Certainly the earlier <200 horserpower V-8s were "high performance" compared to the inline 6-cyls they replaced or were upgraded from.
In '58, all of Ford's 352 4bbl V-8s were termed "Police Interceptor", as were the Cruise-O-Matic transmissions attached to them, even in a normal Ford Country Sedan station wagon. Which probably had more horsepower than the later 4.6L Crown Victoria "Police Interceptor" sedans.
In 1960, Ford had their 352/360 "Police Special" V-8. Bigger Holley 4bbl, mechanical lifters, better exhaust manifolds, open element air cleaner. Later was the 390/330 V-8, still with the mechanical valve lifters. Kind of like hiding your highest-performance V-8 (before the 406s and 427s) in police guise.
Can't forget "Pursuit"! Another word to imply power and sustained high speed capabilities. Which Chrysler's police units were famous for. Only the Ford 390s came close, by observation.
And then, some smaller municipalities would buy normal cars and put police equipment on them. Good enough for their uses, in quieter places. "Faux" police cars?
The thing about all of these marketing things is that many times, the people making the purchase decisions didn't really know cars, just what they read. So if a manufacturer didn't use the descriptive words, but another one did, that might cost them some sales. Although everybody knew the particular brand was "heavy duty" enough for police work as it was. So one of those "danged if you do, danged if you don't" situations. So the opportunities were used to seemingly best advantage by many.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Do you mean to say that the heavy-duty features listed in the 1977 Plymouth Police Car brochure were actually stock parts that also went unsung into the civilian assemblies? In that case we can assign the honorific "heavy-duty" to all 360-2 engines!
It's true that they are not distinguished by sales codes, eg. E57 for the civilian 360-2 engine and for the advertised heavy-duty version with double roller timing chain and high temperature valve-stem seals.
It's true that they are not distinguished by sales codes, eg. E57 for the civilian 360-2 engine and for the advertised heavy-duty version with double roller timing chain and high temperature valve-stem seals.
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PPRCuda
Active Member
How about "3HP"? What does "3" means in engine pad?
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The HP stamp is just a little close to the day/month stamp to its left.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
10 3 HP
indicates the engine was assembled on October 3rd, 1966 and is an HP (375 horse) assembly
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