No more General Lees

polara66hardtop said:
People that say the civil war was all about slavery, need to take some serious history courses. People today can't resist forming opinions of the past based on the concept of society today. The concept of what states rights meant in the 1770's was by no means universal. There was little enthusiasm for a Federal Gov't, and people that lived in South Carolina had no Interest In, or Interaction with people in new York, or any Northern state. Their allegiance was to their state, right or wrong. It is understandable, since it took a week or so on horseback just to travel from Charleston to New York.
The lack of transportation played a huge part in the Peoples developing loyalty to their families, and Colony. Gen Lee himself opposed slavery, but stuck by his state. European Immigrants were flooding the country, and wherever they landed is the state they fought for. Germans, Irishmen, scots, Brits, Indians, all fought on both sides. The belief in "my State, right or wrong" was alive then, too. In the beginning, the Individual states had their own distinct Uniforms, and fought as state units, as The Confederate states opposed a concept of "National Army", to the very end.(States rights above any National Government.) The Individual States even fed and supplied their State Units before the needs of the other state Units,(Alabama, Georgia, Etc)

Southern Politicians mostly considered Northerners hypocrites, as the Northern states had their own version of slavery. The North was highly industrialized, And was built on the backs of poor Immigrants that were forced to slave away in factories until they dropped for a pittance, at the age of 8 and up. Whole families, and The Immigrants were crammed into dangerous tenements, and forced to buy whatever they needed from rich Industrialists that owned the Industries. The Poor were unable to leave, and were dependent on the so-called freedom loving anti-slave Northerners. This is all documented in the congressional record from the 1820's thru 1860. This mindset created the back drop for the War. In order to calm the population after the end of the War, General Grant Insisted that the South be allowed to honor their dead in any way they saw fit, Including the flying of the Confederate flag, and prohibited any prosecution of Gen Robert E.Lee.

Until this week that was the general consensus. I am appalled at the Ignorance of the media, and the politicians that are allowing this topic to even be spoken of, considering the problems we have today. Military equipment to East Europe, ISIS< Iran, North Korea. and people sit around complaining about a 160 year old flag. Disgusting!
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Thank you. But you omitted the fact that Gen. Sherman supported slavery and called for the extermination of Indians. Hope no whimpering "activists" find that out or our Stars and Stripes will be the next to go! And, hey, I'm of Scottish descent and I'm offended that you didn't capitalize "scots" in your post so I'm thinking you're a racist and I'm going to form a Scottish group of crybabies to attack you and hopefully take away your rights as an American! lol
 
butchr66 said:
Nooo....it was all about slavery....apparently you haven't been paying attention! lol
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Nooooo economics played a large part also. In the north it was more expensive to keep a slave alive for a shorter growing season. The south was dependent on the relatively cheap slave labor to make difficult crops work. This leading to succession, and the union did not want to lose the tax revenue from the southern states which did not feel they were getting fair representation in the legislative branch furthering the want to succeed from the union. Definatly not a one reason war. Upholding the abolishment of slavery is the "trophy" but also keeping the union together was seen by Lincoln absolutely necessary.


Reread Tim's post over and over till understood.
 
70bigblockdodge said:
Nooooo economics played a large part also. In the north it was more expensive to keep a slave alive for a shorter growing season. The south was dependent on the relatively cheap slave labor to make difficult crops work. This leading to succession, and the union did not want to lose the tax revenue from the southern states which did not feel they were getting fair representation in the legislative branch furthering the want to succeed from the union. Definatly not a one reason war. Upholding the abolishment of slavery is the "trophy" but also keeping the union together was seen by Lincoln absolutely necessary.



Reread Tim's post over and over till understood.
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I was being sarcastic.
 
I blame my glasses, that had recently blown off while riding my Motorcycle. I am married to an English major, and if she saw that I would hear about it. 70bigblockdodge is correct, that those in charge realized the weather in the north wasn't conducive to growing cotton. But, they definitely knew how to capitalize on cheap labor, with no regards for the Human.
Gen Sherman definitely was pro slavery, and classified Indians along with Blacks as sub human.
When the Southern states signed the Constitution in 1789,they truly believed they could Secede for any reason. And the Confederacy was formed along the lines of the Confederation(1783-89) where the states were loosely bound states Independent from each other.
It is Ironic that today the ultra liberals are on this bandwagon, when in 1865 the Radical Republicans wanted to do the same thing, destroy all vestiges of Southern culture,educate the children per Northern values, prohibit any monuments,etc. But Lincoln was a conservative Republican, and said no to all that.

Strange Indeed.
 
70bigblockdodge said:
.... now we are coming back around wondering wtf was the original subject
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It's about wanting to be left alone to have your own thoughts and beliefs about things instead of someone telling you what you can or can't think, do or not do, act or not act.
It's about being left alone to buy or sell what you want in a, supposedly, free market.
It's about how people can take an inanimate object like a piece of colored cloth or two pieces of wood and attach meaning and emotional attachment to it.
It's about others telling you what that symbol stands for and what you should think about it instead of letting you figure it out for yourself.

It's about LMTFA to live my own life.
 
polara66hardtop said:
I blame my glasses, that had recently blown off while riding my Motorcycle. I am married to an English major, and if she saw that I would hear about it. 70bigblockdodge is correct, that those in charge realized the weather in the north wasn't conducive to growing cotton. But, they definitely knew how to capitalize on cheap labor, with no regards for the Human.
Gen Sherman definitely was pro slavery, and classified Indians along with Blacks as sub human.
When the Southern states signed the Constitution in 1789,they truly believed they could Secede for any reason. And the Confederacy was formed along the lines of the Confederation(1783-89) where the states were loosely bound states Independent from each other.
It is Ironic that today the ultra liberals are on this bandwagon, when in 1865 the Radical Republicans wanted to do the same thing, destroy all vestiges of Southern culture,educate the children per Northern values, prohibit any monuments,etc. But Lincoln was a conservative Republican, and said no to all that.

Strange Indeed.
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Pardon me for interrupting but wasn't it Timothy Pickering that proposed secession from the united States in 1815? Hardly a southern idea, given that he was from New England, a member of the federalist party, and wanted New York as the Capitol.
 
That is true too, and he was among a few Federalists that wanted to Secede, and join with Canada. And Pickering was pro- British. he disliked the French, opposed American support of France, and was vocal about it.
 
All this S%&# makes no difference anymore.


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69CoronetRT said:
It's about wanting to be left alone to have your own thoughts and beliefs about things instead of someone telling you what you can or can't think, do or not do, act or not act.
It's about being left alone to buy or sell what you want in a, supposedly, free market.
It's about how people can take an inanimate object like a piece of colored cloth or two pieces of wood and attach meaning and emotional attachment to it.
It's about others telling you what that symbol stands for and what you should think about it instead of letting you figure it out for yourself.

It's about LMTFA to live my own life.
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Yep, I could not agree more. Heard even more sad news than cheap toys at Walmart is the store at Gettysburg Battle Field is not selling stand alone Confederate flags only if us and Confederate are together. Now you can't buy the flag at a place of that much historical importance.
 
It'll come back in most or all areas after hysteria is gone I guess.
 
cm23uoc said:
It'll come back in most or all areas after hysteria is gone I guess.
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Unfortunately, this is not a wave off hysteria.
This is now the entrenched direction that The United States of America is going.
This is like when some leaders of the Native American nations foolishly believed they could save their culture from the Europeans spreading acrross the country.
 
Look at the crap that has occurred this week alone - the nonsense with the Confederate Battle Flag, gay marriage is now the law of the land, and Zerocare is now firmly entrenched as law. I think six of the so-called "Justices" should be impeached for complete incompetence. This is truly a sad time for this country.
 
Funny how the two tie together.... Law of the land or States rights....Everyone should fly a Confederate flag .....for freedom
 
Wildaugust said:
I am sick and tired of seeing our freedom of speech, personal freedoms and property rights eroded by Political Correctness forced on us by activist groups, claiming to represent certain segments of society. Once limits and restrictions are placed on free speech it is not free speech any more. Without Freedom of Speech and Property Rights we've got nothing. Contrary to what a lot of people in our society seem to believe, freedom means more than just being allowed to vote every four or five years.
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Well the supreme court just cemented it, now watch and see when some preacher is forced to marry a gay couple. It's not abt rights, it's abt shoving your will down someone else's throat. Of course this will only happen with Christianity because they will let themselves be pushed around....you won't see anyone with the balls to challenge a Muslim cleric on their beliefs.

On a lighter note, we stopped over to the GM show - out front in the red brick bldg display by gate 1, did not go in as the turnout is pitiful as usual......could never quite figure that out. The owner of the FIRST CAMARO EVER BUILT, VIN 000001, let my 7 y/o son sit in the car. It's gold with a 250/3 spd column and gold interior. The sec guy asked us to keep some distance but then the owner came over and asked if he wanted to sit in it. I enjoyed the moment more than my son did, I think. And I know, it's not a MOPAR, but to a car ***** like me it didn't matter.
 
You are living the dream Mark.... I never could figure out that GM show either... doesnt make sense
 
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