SOLD Not Mine 1970 Plymouth Sport Fury GT - $22,000 - Phoenixville, Pa.

[saforwardlook]

all I’m saying is these GT’s are hard to find, and since you think I don’t appreciate my GT why didn’t you buy it from Pete? That car sat on here for 1 month? Just because I dropped it off at a shop and paid to have it painted doesn’t mean that I didn’t
1. Source material for the front buckets.
2. Find a shop to upholster them.
3. Find over a dozen parts to replace worn parts.
4. Quoted one price then overpaying when it’s underquoted.
5. Dash pad, seat backs, etc.
6. Small details.
7. Spending a **** load of money, which I’m ok with because I love my GT and it was well worth it!

My no pain no gain comment was for everybody that’s restoring a car period. Whether you do it with your own hands or farm it out. It’s still a lot of money, and time, and stress. I love mopars, all of them. My comment and pictures were meant to inspire the guys that are in the middle of a resto, to give them fuel, to see what the finished product could look like. I’m so glad I checked the for sale page 1 year and 2 months ago, Pete did a great job on my GT. Just for the record, what he was asking is what I pretty much paid. I knew it was worth it! Too bad nobody else thought so, or it would’ve been gone the first day!

My 2 cents

The topic of the thread discussion was the pricing of the green car presently for sale. When @Davea Lux enumerated all the costs involved in getting the green SFGT restored, you disagreed with his estimates and I was trying to understand why given that you paid in the vicinity of $20K for your vehicle that had much of the work done that is still needed on the green car. So lets say you spent another $10K on paint and interior work - so I estimate you are in your car around $30K.

If one were to pay $20K for the green car that needed another $20K of work to get it up to the level of your car when you bought yours (Pete said in his listing of the car when you bought it that he was losing money selling it for the $20K he was asking, so I assume he didn't pay all that much for the car in the first place because in doing the math on the work he did to your car before you bought it easily totaled around $20K assuming he isn't charging for his time in doing the work either at anything close to today's standard rates) and then one also has to spend another $14K on top of that price for interior work and paint plus fixing some body rust, then one would have invested some $54K to yield a car that is less desirable than yours since it lacks a sought after paint color like yours and yours has plenty of options also that the green car doesn't have.

Bottom line to me is you were lucky you found Pete's SFGT when you did and bought it because you got a good deal and your car needed less body work than the green one.

So I still want to know why you think Davea Lux's estimates were not reasonable, thats all. His point is that this green car is over priced given the work it still needs and while you got a good deal, there is still a lot more pain left relative to the green car that you got to avoid big time. So your making the statement about "no pain, no gain" came across as "nice for you to say" since you avoided a lot of pain thanks to Pete but there is plenty more pain in this green one yet for sale. Would you buy the green one restored at some $54K?

I didn't buy the SFGT Pete was selling because I already own a SFGT that is also an original California car and it is already a desirable one too. I do all my own mechanical work just like Pete does so I have some idea of the costs in terms of time and money involved. So I do have some idea of the pain vs. gain concept.

 

[Dga26]

The topic of the thread discussion was the pricing of the green car presently for sale. When @Davea Lux enumerated all the costs involved in getting the green SFGT restored, you disagreed with his estimates and I was trying to understand why given that you paid in the vicinity of $20K for your vehicle that had much of the work done that is still needed on the green car. So lets say you spent another $10K on paint and interior work - so I estimate you are in your car around $30K.

If one were to pay $20K for the green car that needed another $20K of work to get it up to the level of your car when you bought yours (Pete said in his listing of the car when you bought it that he was losing money selling it for the $20K he was asking, so I assume he didn't pay all that much for the car in the first place because in doing the math on the work he did to your car before you bought it easily totaled around $20K assuming he isn't charging for his time in doing the work either at anything close to today's standard rates) and then one also has to spend another $14K on top of that price for interior work and paint plus fixing some body rust, then one would have invested some $54K to yield a car that is less desirable than yours since it lacks a sought after paint color like yours and yours has plenty of options also that the green car doesn't have.

Bottom line to me is you were lucky you found Pete's SFGT when you did and bought it because you got a good deal and your car needed less body work than the green one.

So I still want to know why you think Davea Lux's estimates were not reasonable, thats all. His point is that this car is over priced given the work it still needs and while you got a good deal, there is still a lot more pain left relative to the green car that you got to avoid big time. So your making the statement about "no pain, no gain" came across as "nice for you to say" since you avoided a lot of pain thanks to Pete but there is plenty more pain in this green one yet for sale. Would you buy the green one restored at some $54K?

I didn't buy the SFGT Pete was selling because I already own a SFGT that is also an original California car and it is already a desirable one too. I do all my own mechanical work just like Pete does so I have some idea of the costs in terms of time and money involved. So I do have some idea of the pain vs. gain concept.

1. 10 grand for a paint job and polishing of all the trim, I wish.
2. $2200 for the 2 front bucket seats for spring repair and reupholster. Not cheap.
3. Dash pad with glove box insert. $1000 shipped
4. Headliner custom and made and installed. $900
5. Seat backs and seat sides. $450
6. Tail panel stripped and refinished. Not included in the ‘Paint job’.
7. Restoring of the center console done by yours truly, $300
8. Misc parts, tail light lenses, rear deck lid emblems, etc $$$

Your estimation that I have $30 into this is way off.

bottom line is nobody is willing to pay what it costs when they are done, esp C bodies.

you have to do them because you love them, want them, trying to save them

yes the green one isn’t as ‘nice ‘ as mine was, thanks to Pete, but if you want one esp an original untouched one there is value in it. I personally don’t like green on green, I’m sure someone does.

none of these make fiscal sense restoring, they aren’t flying off the shelves. I do my cars because I want to see them done. Life is short, I don’t wanna put it in a corner and say to myself I will get to it someday.

someday never comes!

$20 grand is a lot to some for this particular GT in question, to others it’s a starting point.

just because I disagree doesn’t mean I have all the answers.

I will say this, I like this green one better than bronze and white.

I really wanted a black one!

Silver was my 2nd choice.

 

[LocuMob]

you have to do them because you love them, want them, trying to save them

Amen

 

[Dga26]

Forgot about sending my bumpers out to be chromed. $1800 with shipping! That was a butt ramming in itself

 

[saforwardlook]

1. 10 grand for a paint job and polishing of all the trim, I wish.
2. $2200 for the 2 front bucket seats for spring repair and reupholster. Not cheap.
3. Dash pad with glove box insert. $1000 shipped
4. Headliner custom and made and installed. $900
5. Seat backs and seat sides. $450
6. Tail panel stripped and refinished. Not included in the ‘Paint job’.
7. Restoring of the center console done by yours truly, $300
8. Misc parts, tail light lenses, rear deck lid emblems, etc $$$

Your estimation that I have $30 into this is way off.

bottom line is nobody is willing to pay what it costs when they are done, esp C bodies.

you have to do them because you love them, want them, trying to save them

yes the green one isn’t as ‘nice ‘ as mine was, thanks to Pete, but if you want one esp an original untouched one there is value in it. I personally don’t like green on green, I’m sure someone does.

none of these make fiscal sense restoring, they aren’t flying off the shelves. I do my cars because I want to see them done. Life is short, I don’t wanna put it in a corner and say to myself I will get to it someday.

someday never comes!

$20 grand is a lot to some for this particular GT in question, to others it’s a starting point.

just because I disagree doesn’t mean I have all the answers.

I will say this, I like this green one better than bronze and white.

I really wanted a black one!

Silver was my 2nd choice.

Actually I was aware I was low on the "paint job" estimate since just doing a quality paint job with just some body repair/prep, not including any rust repair, starts around $15K these days for quality paint and a really good body and paint guy.

So it sounds to me like you are aware of the costs of doing a restoration then and you say you now agree, so I will assume we are on the same page. I agree that I do my cars myself because I am pretty hard to please and none of my cars will get what I have put in them except maybe my 70 Cuda and my 300F. The rest are all in the loss column.

I personally do not like dark green cars and the condition of the example in this thread is better than average especially because it is very original and untouched, but I still would not pay a starting price much over $12K for it given its color and low options and the amount of work needed to restore the car from where it is at this time. I personally do not believe anyone would buy it at its present price.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Dga26]

Actually I was aware I was low on the "paint job" estimate since just doing a quality paint job with just some body repair/prep, not including any rust repair, starts around $15K these days for quality paint and a really good body and paint guy.

So it sounds to me like you are aware of the costs of doing a restoration then and you say you now agree, so I will assume we are on the same page. I agree that I do my cars myself because I am pretty hard to please and none of my cars will get what I have put in them except maybe my 70 Cuda and my 300F. The rest are all in the loss column.

I personally do not like dark green cars and the condition of the example in this thread is better than average especially because it is very original and untouched, but I still would not pay a starting price much over $12K for it given its color and low options and the amount of work needed to restore the car from where it is at this time. I personally do not believe anyone would buy it at its present price.

Thanks for your reply.

In the end someone should purchase this one reguardless of what it can be had for. It’s worth saving! Btw I would like to see a pic of your sfgt

 

[saforwardlook]

Mine is one I found in the Las Vegas area of Nevada. It is not restored, rather it is just the way I found it - weatherbeaten with little original paint left and a baked interior. It will need a full restoration. It has no rust anywhere (except of course surface rust in abundance!) not even in the trunk floor and is straight and untouched. But it meets the criteria I wanted - B7 blue with matching bucket seat interior and many options including power disc brakes, a/c, am-fm stereo radio, console, etc. It has 70K miles on it and runs and drives but that is as far as I have gotten. I have some 1970-71 300s and a couple of Dodges ahead of it. If I don't get to it, it will go to a friend in Germany who also wants a B7 blue one only but is very hard to find. I have had door panels from SMS on order now for it coming up on 4 years now. I have a lot of nos parts for it and excellent used as well.

 

[Ripinator]

Mine is one I found in the Las Vegas area of Nevada. It is not restored, rather it is just the way I found it - weatherbeaten with little original paint left and a baked interior. It will need a full restoration. It has no rust anywhere (except of course surface rust in abundance!) not even in the trunk floor and is straight and untouched. But it meets the criteria I wanted - B7 blue with matching bucket seat interior and many options including power disc brakes, a/c, am-fm stereo radio, console, etc. It has 70K miles on it and runs and drives but that is as far as I have gotten. I have some 1970-71 300s and a couple of Dodges ahead of it. If I don't get to it, it will go to a friend in Germany who also wants a B7 blue one only but is very hard to find. I have had door panels from SMS on order now for it coming up on 4 years now. I have a lot of nos parts for it and excellent used as well.

View attachment 426725 View attachment 426726 View attachment 426727 View attachment 426728

Wrong battery cable. . .

 

[commando1]

I can't for the life of me understand all the fighting on how much money you're going to lose if you sell a C-body after restoring it.
Person A says it's a great deal because you'll lose 20k.
Person B says it's a horrible deal because you'll lose 35k.

 

[FURYGT]

Just my opinion. This green '70 GT is worth $10 - $14k. Fury Pursuit sold a nice burnt orange '70 GT on eBay last year that I think sold for low teens. Unless you can do everything yourself, you are looking at $35k - $40k minimum to restore this car correctly and you may not be able to find good trim parts like wheel opening moldings or rocker moldings if needed and then there are the hard to find and expensive tail lamp lenses.

John's brown GT is priced very fairly. I wish I had the coin to buy it but I am already going to have to sell another C Body to 2 to fund my current restoration project.

 

[Samplingman]

Whether you write checks or get your hands dirty, this is still a desirable C, I think $20K is a good starting point. My standing rule is to always offer 25% less and go from there. I think offering any less would just be an insult, unless of course the guy is really off his nut and asking $100K for a Formal, lol.

I like this one, but why does everything have to be measured up to a "full" restoration? I think this can be cleaned up and made presentable as is, maybe add a new vinyl roof and patch up the interior. Knock off the price as much as those few items and then you have a very desirable C that you can actually feel comfortable driving, and for half the price of a decent newer metric car.

 

[saforwardlook]

Regarding the 22" radiators, the rule of thumb is that what matters most is radiator width in terms of cooling capacity in low speed traffic under high ambient temperature conditions, probably the toughest condition to meet of all. That is why a 26" radiator is the minimum width I would accept in high temperature states for any of Chrysler's V8 engines.

The width/size of the tubes isn't a real important factor in determining radiator performance (i.e. flowing more coolant with larger tubes doesn't help when the coolant isn't being cooled adequately in the first place), but fin density (no. of fins per inch around the tubes) is critical and that is where most aftermarket radiators or cores come up short in order to cut costs. Having more smaller tubes is actually desirable if it also is accompanied by much higher fin densities (so it is more critcal to keep your cooling system clean too). That is the only way to significantly improve the performance of a 22" standard radiator. If your radiator is a 2 row, then going to a 3 row might help a little but going to a 4 row for example would not help because you are just adding more core mass that gets hot and then trying to cool the extra mass ends up in a draw in traffic conditions - going that far won't help). The extra cost of a high efficiency core will be high, but well worth it in the long run I believe.

GM used cross flow radiators (i.e. not top - down flow like Chrysler's) in the 70s at least and maybe earlier, not sure, but they emphasized radiator width above all else and that is just one reason their air conditioning systems were far better than Chrysler's weak systems in the 70s and their cars were much more capable of staying cool in Los Angeles traffic on high temperature days. None of the Chrysler standard issue radiators was even close to comparable - I saw the data while at the Chelsea proving grounds when on a program of rotating assignments in the early 70s. Chrysler was far too eager to save money on the materials and it cost them dearly in terms of unsatisfied customers, a poor tradeoff.

 

[saforwardlook]

I can't for the life of me understand all the fighting on how much money you're going to lose if you sell a C-body after restoring it.
Person A says it's a great deal because you'll lose 20k.
Person B says it's a horrible deal because you'll lose 35k.

For me at least, the discussion has always been about the initial cost of the car, and that was all. I don't usually pay more for items that are not worth the asking price to me when similar items can be bought at less expense. Isn't that why you go to Walmart in your Florida community and put up with all the nut jobs you describe there that historically infuriate you instead of a store that bothers you less?

 

[fury fan]

... I don't usually pay more for items that are not worth the asking price to me when similar items can be bought at less expense. ...

That's my perspective on it too. While I don't come across all the GT sales that you guys do, IMO this car is overpriced as-is. Some time, patience and searching will find ones that need a lot less work for a little more $$ (money well-spent) or finding one in comparable condition for less $$.
IMO this car should be $15k +/-1.

 

[tallhair]

I like the green exterior, but it would be a so much better with white or black interior and matching top.

And more options

 

[67newport]

price reduced its now 19.5k
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/phoenixville-1970-plymouth-sport-fury-gt/7253945502.html

 

[T-revorNobody]

Looks like they've further reduced the price to $14,500....

 

[tallhair]

Pretty big drop

 

[Seedy Wags]

View attachment 426408 View attachment 426408 View attachment 426409 No pain no gain gents

That is one beautiful car! My hat is off to you!

 

[fury fan]

$14,500 is getting down to the right price for this green one.
2-3 years from now, assuming we haven't raptured or armageddoned into some new paradigm, we'll think this was a good buy we should've jumped on.