power steering pump notes, shuffle and issues

[Mike McGuire]

Hello FCBO peoples.

As I understand it, there are 2 power steering pumps, and 1 of them has 2 different varieties of pulley.
The first, generally more hearty variety for best performance is the Saginaw pump, identified by a larger pulley with openings through the pulley.

This (in my particular Newport anyway) runs lower and uhhhh more clockwise if looking at it from the front, around 2 O'Clock or so, I guess. I think the Saginaw pump may have ties to GM somehow, again unsure.

Moving on, the 2nd type of pump, is the 'federal' model (a t least I think it is the federal model) usually found on six cylinders and 2 barrel high geared sorts, and has a solid front pulley......

This one has a smaller pulley and the difference I think, is this looks like it can be removed, has a 3/8 inch or so space between the pulley and the housing, different from the last type of pulley, below....

This pulley looks like it is pressed on, has no space between the pulley and the housing, (less than 1/8th inch).

So, that said, here is my issue..
This last picture, the pulley's don't line up.
If looking across the pulleys, from the side, the top part of the pulley is a full belt width too close to the motor, lining up with the first AC belt. (see pic below, I took the belt off the pulley to help clarify).

On the lower side, it looks like it is about 1/2 belt width too close to the motor. There doesn't seem to be any way to easily mechanically adjust this location.

So.... I was thinking about getting a saginaw pump and bracket and see if that rights my rudder, but, I'm hesitating since this could be an endless loop of back and forth, without solving the problem, generally due to my lack of experience in this area.

Can someone add insight on how to correct this problem, and if I have screwed up any of the facts surrounding these pulleys, please shout out.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[67Monaco]

Looks like the wrong pulley on the Federal pump. Should be a larger diameter and single groove. At least from I've seen over the years.

 

[Mike McGuire]

Thanks Bill. It is a single groove. I took the belt out, it is resting on the front of the pulley, not in a groove, showing how it is aligned with the AC and not the correct pulley on the crank. I wonder if it can be pulled out....

 

[67Monaco]

Thanks Bill. It is a single groove. I took the belt out, it is resting on the front of the pulley, not in a groove, showing how it is aligned with the AC and not the correct pulley on the crank. I wonder if it can be pulled out....

My mistake. I didn't notice the difference between the last and next to last pic.

I still think it's the wrong pulley. look at the difference between pic 2 and 3 then 3 and 4. The federal pulley should look or be shaped like the one in 2/3. In 3/4 it looks like it's missing the cone shape or dish to the back side.

 

[FinFury]

I could be wrong but I think that saginav pump has oval filler tube versus the round one on the federal. Also the housing should resemble more like a pear.

About the pulley itself, it can be removed though you need suitable puller. I made a diy puller long time ago to remove the pulley on my pump and it came out quite easily.

 

[Yatzee]

Hello FCBO peoples.

As I understand it, there are 2 power steering pumps, and 1 of them has 2 different varieties of pulley.
The first, generally more hearty variety for best performance is the Saginaw pump, identified by a larger pulley with openings through the pulley.

View attachment 195351

This (in my particular Newport anyway) runs lower and uhhhh more clockwise if looking at it from the front, around 2 O'Clock or so, I guess. I think the Saginaw pump may have ties to GM somehow, again unsure.

Moving on, the 2nd type of pump, is the 'federal' model (a t least I think it is the federal model) usually found on six cylinders and 2 barrel high geared sorts, and has a solid front pulley......

View attachment 195352 View attachment 195353

This one has a smaller pulley and the difference I think, is this looks like it can be removed, has a 3/8 inch or so space between the pulley and the housing, different from the last type of pulley, below....

View attachment 195354

This pulley looks like it is pressed on, has no space between the pulley and the housing, (less than 1/8th inch).

So, that said, here is my issue..
This last picture, the pulley's don't line up.
If looking across the pulleys, from the side, the top part of the pulley is a full belt width too close to the motor, lining up with the first AC belt. (see pic below, I took the belt off the pulley to help clarify).


View attachment 195355

On the lower side, it looks like it is about 1/2 belt width too close to the motor. There doesn't seem to be any way to easily mechanically adjust this location.

So.... I was thinking about getting a saginaw pump and bracket and see if that rights my rudder, but, I'm hesitating since this could be an endless loop of back and forth, without solving the problem, generally due to my lack of experience in this area.

Can someone add insight on how to correct this problem, and if I have screwed up any of the facts surrounding these pulleys, please shout out.

Thanks,
Mike

I believe if you look between the mounting plates you will see a rubber bumper or maybe its disintegrated. It acts as a bumper and shock absorber and is usually mounted towards the front of the pump more towards the pulley where all the belt pressure is applied. If this rubber collapses, the pump may tilt inwards giving the effect that the pulley's are out of alignment. Don't know where you get a replacement. If you go Saginaw, the brackets allow the pump to be moved forwards and back using spacers so alignment of the pulleys is easy. There's also a better choice of pulleys for Saginaw's allowing larger or smaller diameter for better steering feel, single and double groove pulleys and press on or keyed pulleys. I'd scrap the old one and go Saginaw without hesitation.

 

[BillGrissom]

I think there were 2 p.s. pumps in the 1960's cars. First was the TRW pump, then the Federal (or "Chrysler") pump. They look very similar. The TRW has 2 bolts on the rear to the bracket and the brackets vary. The Saginaw pump began in the 1970's and is shared w/ GM's. It is a little more efficient. Bouchillon Performance sells brackets for all 3 and has photos. The TRW pump uses an inverted flare h.p. fitting and has a large return hose (1/2"). The Federal pump has a different h.p. fitting (SAE flare, I recall) and ~3/8" return hose. Saginaw uses an O-ring h.p. fitting. Thus, hoses vary between the 3 and you need fittings on the p.s. gear to match. You can swap valve body parts on the gear or have custom hoses fabb'ed, but always easiest if you stay correct for your year and less risk of interfering w/ exhaust manifold and such.

Pulleys varied between even same engine in same year, depending on accessories. The early AC compressors used 2-belts I recall (yours?) and I don't think it was shared w/ the p.s. pump since that was always 1-groove. I think most BB and RB p.s. pulleys stuck out more and used an outer crank groove. Often, the p.s. crank pulley was a bolt-on, at least in A & B bodies since p.s. was an option. If you can't change the crank pulley, you might get a belt to share p.s. w/ w.p. Spend time on Google Images and try to find a photo which matches your year and options. They are probably the same pulleys as on B-body cars w/ same engine, which are more collectible and thus more photos. Often, people have to get creative w/ belts. I did in my 1965 small-block because of a unique combo (newer water pump, ...). V-belts are fairly forgiving and can allow up to 1/8" axial mis-alignment w/o squealing or tossing. Serpentine belts don't forgive any mis-alignment.