Rebuilding a 440

[nadocor66]

Thanks for the help so far. Engine and transmission are a 75' model year C body 440. When rebuilding this engine what are improvements that I can make to increase power/torque without sacrificing drivability? Car has AC and a 3:21 open rear. Eventually plan on converting over to FI.
Port and polishing?
Head/valve train work?
Camshaft?
Oil pump?
Block hardware. head bolts, expansion plugs?
Best gaskets?
Carb?
Cooling system?
Any input and or expertise is greatly appreciated in advance.
Thank you, Ray

 

[david hill]

Increase your compression ratio by installing taller deck height pistons. The 906 cyl heads work well so simple valve job W/ new springs will serve you well. Use a Melling SP11 camshaft kit. A Melling high pressure pump. For a carb w/ good reliability go w/ a Edelbrock 1411 rated at 750 cfm. With a Recurved the dist. this will give you a very good reliable 440.

 

[MONC440]

Increase your compression ratio by installing taller deck height pistons. The 906 cyl heads work well so simple valve job W/ new springs will serve you well. Use a Melling SP11 camshaft kit. A Melling high pressure pump. For a carb w/ good reliability go w/ a Edelbrock 1411 rated at 750 cfm. With a Recurved the dist. this will give you a very good reliable 440.

I agree with the above. Just want to say your 1975 heads should flow just as good as 906 heads and will probably have hardened seats which will be better. Use a new timing chain set, double roller is best. I do have concerns about using an HV oil pump with a stock pan. As long as you stay under 4500 RPM you should be fine, over that you risk not having enough oil in the pan to make up for the extra flow. A good standard oil pump will get the job done IMO.

 

[nadocor66]

Increase your compression ratio by installing taller deck height pistons. The 906 cyl heads work well so simple valve job W/ new springs will serve you well. Use a Melling SP11 camshaft kit. A Melling high pressure pump. For a carb w/ good reliability go w/ a Edelbrock 1411 rated at 750 cfm. With a Recurved the dist. this will give you a very good reliable 440.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[MEV]

I went down the same path as you several years ago. When i added up all the machine work, head work, and assembly it was easier and similar in cost to buy a 440 source stroker kit and their stealth heads.

For the last 15-ish years I have daily year-round driven it and raced it. It is totally street-able and reliable.

My gf drives it to car shows. My dad and his wife drive it when they are visiting.

It is powerful and responsive. I ran it with the 2.76 gears for a while then switched to 3:23's it has a very mild torque converter and tti exhaust.

 

[MONC440]

I went down the same path as you several years ago. When i added up all the machine work, head work, and assembly it was easier and similar in cost to buy a 440 source stroker kit and their stealth heads.

For the last 15-ish years I have daily year-round driven it and raced it. It is totally street-able and reliable.

My gf drives it to car shows. My dad and his wife drive it when they are visiting.

It is powerful and responsive. I ran it with the 2.76 gears for a while then switched to 3:23's it has a very mild torque converter and tti exhaust.

I think the 440 source kits are great but I would have to debate your thoughts on "similar in cost".

I guess that depends on who is doing the work and what needs to be replaced in the 440. The 500 stroker kit is 3K (comes with complete rotating assembly plus bearings and rings) the stealth heads are another 1.5K. So $4.5K

For a non stroker build if your crank and rods are good you would need to buy pistons & rings ($600), rod bolts ($75), Main & Rod bearings ($175). Machine work: have the crank turned if needed and polished, rods resized, have the rotating assembly balanced (all that in my area is about $350 but lets round it up to $500). So that's $1350 total vs $3000 for the stroker.

As far as the heads, again if your heads are good and just need a valve job, seals and springs that is around $500, vs $1500 for the stealth heads. If your heads were junk and need guides, seats, milled, new valves then I would say it would not be worth it because the stealth heads would be cheaper than the cost of all those parts and machine work.

 

[volksworld]

what I ran into when I rebuilt mine (73 cast crank engine) ...turns out it was previously rebuilt with .040 KB silvolite pistons and was 7.5 to one...wanted to raise it to 9...all my notes are currently in the shop ( 500 ft of snow away from here) so going from memory...had the heads rebuilt first ( hardened seat ones) so I'd know what cc they would be ( think 87 or 88? )but what I found was the only piston that would work with that was a forged Icon that had a 12cc dish....the problem was ,it was basically a Chevy big block forging so it was only available with the .990 wrist pin size, so I wound up having to buy a set of Scat rods to match...the rod bolts actually fell out of the TRW recon rods in my engine so it wasn't the end of the world to replace them....blue Felpro .030 permatorque gaskets....I don't like milling the crap out of heads and blocks for fear of intakes that won't fit right...valve train I went with Hughes...they have a 20+ question form asking all the specifics of the engine and what your intentions are...I wanted it to still be drivable with the stock RV2 compressor, power brakes etc and they recomended their 2024...its fine and I think I could have gone one step hotter....engine is noticably seat of the pants faster than before...stuck with Hughes for springs, lifters, timing chain etc in the hopes of getting any sort if guarantee....this engine was built during the height of covid supply chain BS so many decisions were based on what I could actually get my hands on at the time so there may be more options available now than back then...radiator original 26 inch 3 core 180 thermostat doesn"t run hot at all with air on

 

[The Mechanic]

Im just chiming in here with a little bit of a question regarding MONC440's comment below about using a hv oil pump.

" I do have concerns about using an HV oil pump with a stock pan. As long as you stay under 4500 RPM you should be fine, over that you risk not having enough oil in the pan to make up for the extra flow. A good standard oil pump will get the job done IMO."

I am running a melling HV oil pump with a stock oil pan, but I installed a windage tray, do you think that will make up the difference at higher than 4500 rpm?

Thanks for letting me butt in!!

 

[commando1]

I wanted it to still be drivable with the stock RV2 compressor,

Please don't do that. Nobody cares anymore on whether it's the V-twin or a Sanden. Remove that concrete cinder block hanging off your dog's neck.

 

[MEV]

I think the 440 source kits are great but I would have to debate your thoughts on "similar in cost".

I guess that depends on who is doing the work and what needs to be replaced in the 440. The 500 stroker kit is 3K (comes with complete rotating assembly plus bearings and rings) the stealth heads are another 1.5K. So $4.5K

For a non stroker build if your crank and rods are good you would need to buy pistons & rings ($600), rod bolts ($75), Main & Rod bearings ($175). Machine work: have the crank turned if needed and polished, rods resized, have the rotating assembly balanced (all that in my area is about $350 but lets round it up to $500). So that's $1350 total vs $3000 for the stroker.

As far as the heads, again if your heads are good and just need a valve job, seals and springs that is around $500, vs $1500 for the stealth heads. If your heads were junk and need guides, seats, milled, new valves then I would say it would not be worth it because the stealth heads would be cheaper than the cost of all those parts and machine work.

I think the 440 source kits are great but I would have to debate your thoughts on "similar in cost".

I guess that depends on who is doing the work and what needs to be replaced in the 440. The 500 stroker kit is 3K (comes with complete rotating assembly plus bearings and rings) the stealth heads are another 1.5K. So $4.5K

For a non stroker build if your crank and rods are good you would need to buy pistons & rings ($600), rod bolts ($75), Main & Rod bearings ($175). Machine work: have the crank turned if needed and polished, rods resized, have the rotating assembly balanced (all that in my area is about $350 but lets round it up to $500). So that's $1350 total vs $3000 for the stroker.

As far as the heads, again if your heads are good and just need a valve job, seals and springs that is around $500, vs $1500 for the stealth heads. If your heads were junk and need guides, seats, milled, new valves then I would say it would not be worth it because the stealth heads would be cheaper than the cost of all those parts and machine work.

I was looking at a few new valves, springs, and new hardened seats, just to have crappy flowing iron heads and the necessity of keeping compression at 9.5 or less for detonation on pump gas (aluminum heads let you run .5 to 3/4 point more compression on pump gas) the stealths have all new hardware and are lighter, and better flowing out of the box. Reworking the old heads was actually more expensive in my case.

Reworking the rods and adding arp bolts new pistons and rings, just to have extremely heavy pistons and rods. On a 50 year old non-performance crank.

I did splurge on a hydraulic roller cam and lifters. That was money well spent.

 

[volksworld]

Sorry, I do...I like stuff stock appearing, even if its not...must be all those years of cheating on race cars and claiming they were stock

 

[MEV]

Mine looked completely stock, thats why i went with stealth heads and exhaust manifolds at first. I painted it all the factory turquoise and put the quick fuel carb under the factory air cleaner. I even used the factory valve covers. Unless you heard it you had no idea. I later added the headers and aluminum valve covers.

 

[volksworld]

yes , I was replying to commando1 about the a/c ,not criticizing what you were doing...you just posted too fast

 

[CBODY67]

High Volume oil pump with Standard Pressure spring?

Every rebuild can be a bit different, while still being "the same". Is Hughes (the first ones I knew of to have them) not doing their "Quench Dome" pistons any more? Just curious.

CBODY67

 

[MONC440]

Im just chiming in here with a little bit of a question regarding MONC440's comment below about using a hv oil pump.

" I do have concerns about using an HV oil pump with a stock pan. As long as you stay under 4500 RPM you should be fine, over that you risk not having enough oil in the pan to make up for the extra flow. A good standard oil pump will get the job done IMO."

I am running a melling HV oil pump with a stock oil pan, but I installed a windage tray, do you think that will make up the difference at higher than 4500 rpm?

Thanks for letting me butt in!!

Let me try to clarify. A HV pump with a stock pan can be a problem at high RPM under certain circumstances. The oil pan is a mid sump pan and holds 4 quarts of oil (1 quart is in the filter) on a hard launch some of that oil gets pushed to the back of the pan and out of the hump. If RPM gets high enough it will start sucking air. A windage try will not make a difference. A baffle in the rear of the sump will help. I always install a low oil pressure light on engines with an HV pump. I have seen the light come on before with a stock pan and high RPM 1st gear launch. With all of that said a big c-body with 3.23 gears should be fine because it probably won’t launch hard enough for this to happen unless you have a very healthy engine. To be on the safe side just shift out of first when you hit 4200. If you have to run a stock pan and are concerned about oil pressure just use a stock oil pump with a high pressure spring, it will give you more pressure without the volume.