Replacing heads and (hopefully) easy alternator issue

Will I finish it to drive her to Colorado?

  • Hell no

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You will if you deprive yourself of sleep and the luck of the Irish kicks in

    Votes: 4 100.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
I put exhaust gasket on mine cause the surface of either must not be completely flat (guessing the manifold)..maybe it was brand new off the assembly line, but def not now. Soon as I did that it quieted down. Seem to be worse on the pass side, I don't know why.
The manifolds can warp, but if they aren't flat enough to seal without using gaskets, there's a real good chance that they won't seal even with a gasket... or will eventually develop a leak down the road. It's not that much money to have a good shop to fix them. A well equipped shop, especially an older one, will have a large belt sander that will make quick work of it. If it cost more than $100 for the pair, that would surprise me.

Usually though, it's just a buildup of crap on the surface that needs to be removed.

The PO of my car swears by these RV manifold gaskets. They are a different construction and have a flange on the top to keep oil from the valve cover from collecting. My car has them and so far, they aren't leaking. I'm not going to touch them until they do. It does remind me that I was going to check the bolt tightness on them before the trip to Carlisle. LOL.
 
Well the problem I'm having is that the Valve cover bolt already has an extractor broken off in it. So my drill just wants to walk when I attempt to drill it out. I guess I can give it another shot when I get back to my shop after work. But last time I tried there was a lot of sweating involved. So my thinking was that the machine shop would be better equipped to drill out broken bolt/broken extractor. If I do end up pulling the heads I'll have the machine shop check the manifold/great surface for true to avoid the manifold gasket. Part of me also would like to have the heads done just for one less thing to worry about.
 
Well the problem I'm having is that the Valve cover bolt already has an extractor broken off in it. So my drill just wants to walk when I attempt to drill it out. I guess I can give it another shot when I get back to my shop after work. But last time I tried there was a lot of sweating involved. So my thinking was that the machine shop would be better equipped to drill out broken bolt/broken extractor. If I do end up pulling the heads I'll have the machine shop check the manifold/great surface for true to avoid the manifold gasket. Part of me also would like to have the heads done just for one less thing to worry about.

I hate those bolt extractor things. They are hard as hell, and they always break off - making a tough job a complete nightmare. Another way to approach a broken bolt is to get someone to build up the broken bolt with successive welds, until there is enough material to clamp a pair of vise grips on the broken bolt. Then heat the hell out of it, and turn the bolt right on out.
 
Couldn't agree with you more.. Yeah I've seen people weld a washer to the bolt then weld a nut onto the washer... Maybe I will give that a try. I have a little Lincoln MIG which should do the trick. Would any of you guys be concerned about overheating any Part part the head? I'll just be using MAPP gas to do the heating.
 
No worries with the mapp gas.
 
Once you've broken an extractor off in the bolt, you are pretty much done with drilling it out. The extractor is harder than the drill.
 
I've used a 4 flute end mill on a drill press.
Of course setting up an improvised table built with 2x4's to hold the head was no fun... :eek:
Next time I'll just bring it to a machine shop.
No. Actually I'll sell the car first next time.
 
I use a 1/8" die grinder with carbide bits to grind out easy-outs or broken taps, like Big_John said you can't drill out the extractor.
 
I didn't see it it in your description or the others comments about the rouge wire, it either goes to the alternator or the AC clutch. The one for the AC usually is a separate wire that plugs in the the heater/ac harness at the back of the head. The Alternator wire comes out of the harness with the other wires.


Alan
 
I was hoping to work on it today but ended up working till just now. I'm going to first try and weld up the bolt then if that fails I'll take a die grinder to it. I'll keep y'all updated.
Thanks mr.mopar. I have the AC wires accounted for so that must be the alternator wire.
 
On my 66 the alternator wire or wires are green, my a/c wire is blue! check a wiring diagram to be sure chrysler may have changed the colors. since your car is newer it should have electronic V/R so there would be 2 field wires perhaps both the same color. not sure on the newer stuff. I converted to dual field so i ran a second wire borrowed from a 68 dart, that was also a green wire. im beginning to think the field wires stayed green.
 
On my 66 the alternator wire or wires are green, my a/c wire is blue! check a wiring diagram to be sure chrysler may have changed the colors. since your car is newer it should have electronic V/R so there would be 2 field wires perhaps both the same color. not sure on the newer stuff. I converted to dual field so i ran a second wire borrowed from a 68 dart, that was also a green wire. im beginning to think the field wires stayed green.

The alternator should have a green wire and a blue wire, the early (up to 1969) cars only had the single green wire and the later (1970+) cars added the blue wire.

Alan
 
It does not matter which wire goes on which terminal just needs continuity to make a magnetic field that spins by coils and makes a/c current cut in half for pulsed DC.
 
Ha yeah the Magnetic screw keeper. Definitely Will use high temp thread sealer on the stud. Good to know that I won't need new head bolts. That Will save me some $. Yeah I noticed there was no gasket on the passenger side exhaust manifold. And like half the nuts were almost hand tight. So I'm assuming somebody was messing with em at some point. Probably won't hurt to use gasket right?
Mine were the same way. They get loose from constantly being heated, cooled, and then subjected to vibration. It could be that they have not been messed with at all. When you reassemble everything, I recommend using copper exhaust manifold gaskets. That is what I installed on my '69 NY, and I am very happy with them (they're also reusable, which is an added bonus). I bought mine (SCE gaskets) from Summit, I believe, for about $30. Also, get yourself some stainless steel studs, washers, and nuts if you can. Corroded fasteners in that area will be a thing of the past.
 
Well the problem I'm having is that the Valve cover bolt already has an extractor broken off in it. So my drill just wants to walk when I attempt to drill it out. I guess I can give it another shot when I get back to my shop after work. But last time I tried there was a lot of sweating involved. So my thinking was that the machine shop would be better equipped to drill out broken bolt/broken extractor. If I do end up pulling the heads I'll have the machine shop check the manifold/great surface for true to avoid the manifold gasket. Part of me also would like to have the heads done just for one less thing to worry about.
A friend of mine had this done once by a good machine shop with the heads on the car (a '69 NY he owned a long time ago). It could save you a bunch of time and effort. Make some calls. The worst they can say is "nope".
 
I'd love to see some statistics for success on that 'weld nut onto a broken bolt' method. You're trying to weld something on that has a smaller ID, so a small weld, usually in a bad location to really see what you're doing. Then you're heating and changing the metallurgy at the tip of a fastener that's seized enough along its length to break in the first place. I've tried it a few times and the welded item always twists right off. Might work if you heated the surroundings cherry-red, but probably requires acetylene, I doubt MAPP will get you there on a cylinder head -- it's too large a heatsink.

My method:
For non-critical fasteners (such as a manifold stud and VC bolt like you're dealing with) I never use any type of extractor. As mentioned, they are a harder metal, so that they bite in, but then the harder metal is brittle so more likely to snap, and then you're hosed.

I always grind them down flat if possible, use a spring-laoded center punch and tap the center of the bolt as best I can, then start small and drill successively larger with LH drillbits. Theoretically there's a chance that the LH drill will back the bolt out, although it's never actually happened for me yet (duh, because the bolt is seized!). I drill larger up to the tap size, then re-tap it.

I rarely am drilling perfectly on-center, so when I re-tap there's a mix of old bolt in the threads, so I always install a stud in afterward, and would not do this for a critical fastener (like a headbolt), or for a R&R bolt (like the long alternator bolt). But for VC bolts, exh studs, T-stat bolts, it has worked well for me as a near-permanent repair numerous times over the last 20 years.

As for worrying about hardened seats -
I drove an untouched 68 318 from 110k to about 180k at mostly highway speeds from 1997 til maybe 2005. Near the end it was starting to run a little rough (probably valves, although I never did check). So although there is a vulnerability there, I wouldn't just automatically install $3-400 worth of seats unless it was part of my long-term plan for the car. As someone mentioned, with the low-tension springs of a factory non-HP cam, and with lazy 70s highway gears, you're not beating the seats as much as a hotrodder would, so I don't think it's the best place to spend your money. It sounds like this car is new to you? If so, get to know it a bit first and figure out a long-term plan for it instead of just automatically 'doing it the right way' like the internet tells you. Other people will always spend more of your money than necessary. Another thing to consider is that re-working everything on the heads seals them up better, with slightly higher CR, and you'll be putting them on used rings so there's a chance to burn a little oil afterward. Maybe not a big deal on a low-CR 70s engine, but...
 
My method:
For non-critical fasteners (such as a manifold stud and VC bolt like you're dealing with) I never use any type of extractor. As mentioned, they are a harder metal, so that they bite in, but then the harder metal is brittle so more likely to snap, and then you're hosed.

I always grind them down flat if possible, use a spring-laoded center punch and tap the center of the bolt as best I can, then start small and drill successively larger with LH drillbits. Theoretically there's a chance that the LH drill will back the bolt out, although it's never actually happened for me yet (duh, because the bolt is seized!). I drill larger up to the tap size, then re-tap it.

I do pretty much the same, except I will use heli-coil inserts instead of going to an oversize bolt.
 
And I would be a little hesitant about driving a new-to-me 40+ year old car that far until I knew it a little better. Too many things that could make you pull over, too many of our parts are no longer stocked in the auto parts store.
I do pretty much the same, except I will use heli-coil inserts instead of going to an oversize bolt.
Oh, to clarify - I return to teh original-size bolt when I re-tap, I meant that I drill larger until I hit the correct drill for that tap size.
 
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