Scenicruisin'..?

[cantflip]

Good plan Jeff .. "great minds" as they say

My idea:

1. Buy this AZ bus for parts - now! Whisperer agreed six months ago citing almost identical reasons/stratey as you did. Its got good parts. Good bones? -- Not sure. I own enough warehouse space to store 10 of this buses along with the fleet.

2 Find PD-4501-303 and see what shape its in and IF Mr. Wiley wants to sell it. Why? How cool for me to have one that i KNOW was in Detroit at least once AND I can prove it.

3. Make ONE good bus outta two .. assuming #303 needs it.

Rebuttal to my own idea:

4. I am LOATHE to "kill" the AZ coach on PRINCIPLE .. there's only 100 or so of these coaches left in the world and perhaps somebody with the lettuce and the interest can bring it back. Yup, LOW guilt given how badly its been treated, but not NO guilt IF i was the one responsible for its complete destruction.

5. Budget is still $250K .. but I have seen MANY examples of OTHER buses (Buffaloes, Eagles, WanderLodges, 20yr old Prevosts, FLXies) I dig and are drivable as is for 1/4 of that $$$. I do ok but am NOT such a high roller I can overpay by $200K for this dream of mine.

6. My acquisition budget (bus, plus transport) is $10K .. but that assumed I am buying a "project". Because of 4 and 5 above, and getting over my own vanity to build the bus the way I want, WHY buy a project? The AZ bus IS a BIG project as it sits.

Next Steps

7. I am gonna see if the guys mentioned in the Hemmings piece -- scenicruisers.com-The most distinctive greyhound on the road -- can help me find Mr. Wiley's #303.

8. Also, reconnect with the AZ seller to understand how "mobile" his coach is and work on transport and/or storage options.

Unfortunately, the crowd that HAD to have a Scenic is ageing out. I think the AZ bus is good insurance if you can find reasonable storage close to where she sits and can get her there for fair $$. OR just bring her home, count the haul as $$ saved on storage and you control her fate from there.

I firmly believe this kind of project will work best with the spares, due to size, I think the parts busses and project busses will continue to dry up over time... most folks just can't keep on indoors. AZ outside storage is as good a second option as I can think of, but glass always concerns me.

 

[amazinblue82]

Ray .... I really need to meet you. Sit down and listen to you tell stories ...

like anybody who's been around, and fortunately the memory is still workin pretty good, i got stories boss. most are even true

thanks .. and yes ALL the story tellers who happen to have some C bodies gotta get together one day.

Most do at Carlisle... you've never been?

Carlisle seems to the ideal place to catch up .. been once in last 25 years .. gotta work on my schedule. THanks.

 

[polara71]

Most do at Carlisle... you've never been?

 

[azblackhemi]

Still for sale. Updated the ad 8 days ago. 1961 CROWN COACH BUS 40' Converter into Motor Home

 

[twostick]

That is cool!!

I though Crown coaches were all mid engine with the engine laying on its side for clearance.

Kevin

 

[amazinblue82]

View attachment 219228

Still for sale. Updated the ad 8 days ago. 1961 CROWN COACH BUS 40' Converter into Motor Home

interesting .... thanks never heard of Crown before today. went outta business in 1991. made school buses and fire trucks too.

this coach obvious older conversion I think given interior. not a lotta detail on it in ad. $18,000 OBO

Crown Coach Bus converter into Motor Home, 8V92 Detroit Diesel Engine, Allison Automatic Transmission, 3 Axle Air Ride, Completely Self Contained, Queen Bed with a long shower / bathroom. Runs Great!!!! Strong and reliable Motor home conversion, you will enjoy the open space area in between the living area and kitchen. Come see it and make an offer.​

roof looks customized till I fould this..see the twin rear axle version in Crown ad lower right.

 

[amazinblue82]

more crowns. the tandem rear models are five feet longer than the single rear. plus BOTH are drive axles (no tag axle).

 

[LeBaron1973]

Lots of nice photos, hopefully you'll locate the one for you soon.

 

[cantflip]

This was done by a fella who called himself "Mr. Sharkey"... He operated a wonderful website full of house trucks, off grid living and was deep into this for decades (5?). Unfortunately, from what I've gathered, his web site was hosted by a broadcast corporation... without their knowledge. It was taken "off the air" several years ago. Who says what's on the internet never goes away? His site had a huge amount of good conversion information, an active forum, and a zillion photos... many of old wood built house trucks.

Maybe the Whisperer can weigh in, I bet he's familiar with the defunct site.

Mr. Sharkey's Crown
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/96/31/839631d689b26846df3d827ec3a18396.jpg

The house truck he lived in for decades...
The Flying Tortoise: Mr Sharkey, Doyen Of Our Housetrucking Fraternity Celebrates Forty Years Of Alternative Lifestyling...

 

[amazinblue82]

1965 Crown Bus.

Sold for $25,000. Yes, only 25,000. Does not say when. Tandem rear axle jobs were called SuperCoach. Appears ALL were manual transmission rigs (that could get old in daily driving) but I am checking that. Ample supply of parts around. Hmmm .. seems i have another reason to get to AZ

Engine/Trans: 260 Cummins Turbo Diesel, recently tuned with new injectors, new water pump, new radiator and fan, all records kept. 10-speed Road Ranger, clutch in excellent cond., new fluids, all records (even original purchase receipt). New front kingpins and brake pads.​

 

[polara71]

 

[amazinblue82]

spoke with owner. nice fellow. learned a lot. he had conversion done 15 years ago. was a passenger coach, otherwise original except for engine.

Whisperer likes this coach. He likes Crowns too. "Indestructible" .. but they have a few issues, and none tend to be showstoppers in his experience.

i trust everyone here .. but you all know we have lurkers. On tHis thread and looking for buses? Doubtful, but it looks like only 20 or so of us chime in regularly, but we have a lotta views for this thread compared to regular posters.

could be nothing .. but hell this IS the internet. a local buyer has an advantage over me.

that drama aside, coach has an Allision four speed auto. Plus "short" gearing. The tranny ..ok. the short gears is an issue for me ..gotta do 70-80 comfortably and not get ONE mpg on diesel. Seller says at 55 mph "she's revved up."

Engine not original so mileage honestly unknown. AC runs off a separate engine (that's what he said) and alledges it stands up the AZ heat.

Transportation given size and weight is a deal breaker at price points we dicussed so its gotta run reliably.

here's where I need a little help from our Phoenix contingent (or anybody who knows the area)? Where could I get this coach inspected and worked on locally? I know what it needs but it is not driveable 2000 miles without a few things done.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[amazinblue82]

This was done by a fella who called himself "Mr. Sharkey"... Maybe the Whisperer can weigh in, I bet he's familiar with the defunct site.

My guy knows of Mr. Sharkey. "everybody knows mr. sharkey". Does not know him personally tho but seems to recall an encounter or two over past 30 years, but nothing the past decade.

 

[twostick]

View attachment 219659

spoke with owner. nice fellow. learned a lot. he had conversion done 15 years ago. was a passenger coach, otherwise original except for engine.

Whisperer likes this coach. He likes Crowns too. "Indestructible" .. but they have a few issues, and none tend to be showstoppers in his experience.

i trust everyone here .. but you all know we have lurkers. On tHis thread and looking for buses? Doubtful, but it looks like only 20 or so of us chime in regularly, but we have a lotta views for this thread compared to regular posters.

could be nothing .. but hell this IS the internet. a local buyer has an advantage over me.

that drama aside, coach has an Allision four speed auto. Plus "short" gearing. The tranny ..ok. the short gears is an issue for me ..gotta do 70-80 comfortably and not get ONE mpg on diesel. Seller says at 55 mph "she's revved up."

Engine not original so mileage honestly unknown. AC runs off a separate engine (that's what he said) and alledges it stands up the AZ heat.

Transportation given size and weight is a deal breaker at price points we dicussed so its gotta run reliably.

here's where I need a little help from our Phoenix contingent (or anybody who knows the area)? Where could I get this coach inspected and worked on locally? I know what it needs but it is not driveable 2000 miles without a few things done.

Thanks in advance for any help.

What kind of tandem drive does it use? If it uses the same Eaton or Rockwell diffs that a highway tractor uses, a ratio change might be as close as a diff rebuilder. That might solve your road speed issue depending on how low 1st gear is on a 4spd Allison. 3.55's should get you to 70 at 1700ish but that about maxes out what passes for a fuel economy window on an 8v92. Spin it much tighter and it will get really thirsty. Depending on the low gear ratio, that Allison might not appreciate having that 8v92 twisting its nose trying to lug it away from a light on an up hill grade.

Something for your whisperer to ponder.

Kevin

 

[amazinblue82]

What kind of tandem drive does it use? If it uses the same Eaton or Rockwell diffs that a highway tractor uses, a ratio change might be as close as a diff rebuilder. That might solve your road speed issue depending on how low 1st gear is on a 4spd Allison. 3.55's should get you to 70 at 1700ish but that about maxes out what passes for a fuel economy window on an 8v92. Spin it much tighter and it will get really thirsty. Depending on the low gear ratio, that Allison might not appreciate having that 8v92 twisting its nose trying to lug it away from a light on an up hill grade.

Something for your whisperer to ponder.

Kevin

good advice chief! i will investigate the driveline specs.

apparently these coaches had two engine options (260 hp and 335 hp diesels) and three trannies (richmond 10 speed manual and 4 & 6 speed Allison autos). dunno exact specs nor gearing/make of rear axles.

whisperer put a powertrain swap/rebuild in my budget ...hoped i could get diff work done in AZ.

thx again Kevin.

UPDATE: Richmond 5 speed manual was an option. Tandem Axle was Rockwell Model SQ-100 as of 1958 anyway. The Supercoaches got design improvements in 1960 so not sure IF it continued. Ratio was a standard 4.10:1 .. thats kinda short.

alleged google pics of SQ-100 ... dunno vintage tho probably NOT 1960's, dunno if even true as I have NO sense of these things.

BTW, Crown was based in Los Angeles. Virtually all its products lived and died (actually didnt die ... Whisperer swears they were among the most durable commercial coaches ever made .. on the West Coast.

Got time to kill and IF you are a bus nerd?

Crown Coach, Crown Body & Coach Corp., Crown Carriage Co., Crown Motor Carriage Co., Crown Coach International, Crown Coach Inc., Crown Coach by Carpenter, Crown-Ikarus, Crown Aircraft, - Coachbult.com

 

[65 500]

At Hershey today.

 

[cantflip]

View attachment 219659

spoke with owner. nice fellow. learned a lot. he had conversion done 15 years ago. was a passenger coach, otherwise original except for engine.

Whisperer likes this coach. He likes Crowns too. "Indestructible" .. but they have a few issues, and none tend to be showstoppers in his experience.

i trust everyone here .. but you all know we have lurkers. On tHis thread and looking for buses? Doubtful, but it looks like only 20 or so of us chime in regularly, but we have a lotta views for this thread compared to regular posters.

could be nothing .. but hell this IS the internet. a local buyer has an advantage over me.

that drama aside, coach has an Allision four speed auto. Plus "short" gearing. The tranny ..ok. the short gears is an issue for me ..gotta do 70-80 comfortably and not get ONE mpg on diesel. Seller says at 55 mph "she's revved up."

Engine not original so mileage honestly unknown. AC runs off a separate engine (that's what he said) and alledges it stands up the AZ heat.

Transportation given size and weight is a deal breaker at price points we dicussed so its gotta run reliably.

here's where I need a little help from our Phoenix contingent (or anybody who knows the area)? Where could I get this coach inspected and worked on locally? I know what it needs but it is not driveable 2000 miles without a few things done.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Try @azblackhemi for a shop recommendation out there.

 

[amazinblue82]

Try @azblackhemi for a shop recommendation out there.

chris and i exchanged PMs. thanks for idea!

 

[amazinblue82]

Try @azblackhemi for a shop recommendation out there.

chris and i exchanged PMs. thanks for idea!

Update:

Inspection being scheduled (azblackhemi trusted source recommendation) for this coach this coming week I hope. Its not registrered or licensed .. adding another wrench to the works (cannot test drive) but i'll learn more about the possibllities for this one.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

. Tandem Axle was Rockwell Model SQ-100 as of 1958 anyway. The Supercoaches got design improvements in 1960 so not sure IF it continued. Ratio was a standard 4.10:1 .. thats kinda short.

alleged google pics of SQ-100 ... dunno vintage tho probably NOT 1960's, dunno if even true as I have NO sense of these things

I have SQ100 in my 85 Pete. Mine are 3.42:1 runs about 1450 at 65-70 with 11R24.5 rubber.
They run very warm so efficiency is not their strong suit.