So....reformulated gas(10%ethanol)

[cantflip]

This is scary in the fact that if you use the car to take a trip and use gas from different refineries, tank farms, retailers. What kind of deadly mixture is brewing

When involved in xon gas stations, I heard the argument from several company sources that brands without a dedicated fleet could be using their stainless tankers for all sorts of loads... "just a cup of acid will change the whole load". IDK if there is any truth there, but I heard it enough.

I'm just gonna say this and i'll surely be told that I'm wrong..

I just finished driving a dead-nuts original '79 Magnun (318-2) in a two mile parade. It took roughly an hour, so 1/2 mph. Car didn't do a single thing wrong, then I ate lunch with the family of the Navy vet who rode with me. (aka heat soak) Then I drove it home without incident. Only in the middle of the parade did I remember I was running on the last 1/4 tank of the 87 oct. cheap gas (probably from our local Kroger) that was in it when I garaged it 8 months ago.

Basically repeat the same story for my '70 Fury (sans parade).

Same thing with my Monaco, except I burn a lot more Kroger or Ghetto-brand gas. No electric fans, pumps, gadgets, additives, etc.

I don't do anything with my lawn equipment except run it dry on the last cut.

I don't think I've purchased more than a couple tanks of name-brand fuel in my life.

YMMV

Had to look it up "Your Market May Vary"... too true. I can't claim anyone is wrong if they have success. I would caution the additive crowd that they really never know if their mix causes long term damage... Just as the ethanol fuels cause long term damage.

If your market requires RFG (reformulated gasoline) it is an emissions mandate and pretty inescapable unless you cross county lines to a place without the mandate. Ethanol fuels are a part of this, but there are other things tried/used as well.
Reformulated Gasoline | US EPA
A Primer on Gasoline Blending - EPRINC

MTBE... a potential carcinogen
Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE) | US EPA

Emissions and climate could make a big difference in the fuels available and the issues caused. Winter blends have higher volatility and could cause vapor lock issues in hot weather. Summer blends with lower volatility maybe difficult to start in the cold weather.

I have had countless times a car had a issue that seemed to be fuel quality related. There are tests, but to do anything of meaning a fuel sample would have to be sent to a lab and that information used to try to get the supplier to pay for repairs. You also would have to show proof that they are where you purchased the bad fuel, which is almost impossible when a busy station gets a fresh truckload every day or two (the busiest I ever dealt with personally was twice a day on most days). This all adds up to a waste of effort and $$... I would reset adaptive memories, short drive the car and recommend switching gas stations to a "name brand" or a different "name brand" if they already used one... just for a couple of tankfuls. Without any repair to show for this, I did this gratis, and never had a customer return for a second complaint. Of course explaining to the customer the unwarrantable expense of testing, cleaning and replacing their fuel may have had something to do with their willingness to try a different station.

I believe Florida gets some "dumped" fuels from other markets... we are warm and without any emissions testing to cause many problems for suppliers doing this. With the pipeline system I wonder how often it is really done. I have occasionally dealt with wasted and corroded fuel injection systems... but you will never prove the cause.

I am happy with the 89 octane WAWA ethanol free I can buy conveniently, without dedicated tracking I believe the increase in fuel economy has offset the higher cost at least a bit. On the road, I will buy what I can find... but it will be burned off soon enough that I'm less concerned with long term effects.

 

[rags]

agree with carmine above. straight up pump gas from my local sunoco dealer. never a problem.

 

[1978 NYB]

AAP and AZ and others sell this stuff. I pour a bottle in the tank every 1000 miles.

 

[Big Jay]

I ordered some of the Lucas. Thanks!

 

[detmatt]

I just do the marine 2 cycle with every fill up. It's cheap and readily available.

 

[commando1]

A little common sense please??

Put down the tiger piss and snake oil and no engine gets hurt...

MYTH: fuel additives can cure or prevent all issues from ethanol-blended fuel.

TRUTH: there is no practical additive that can prevent phase separation from occurring. The only practical solution is to keep water from accumulating in the tank in the first place. In addition to using high-quality fuel additives, you should purchase quality fuel from trusted sources, check fuel filters and fuel tanks periodically for sediment and water, and keep up with manufacturer-recommended preventative maintenance schedules

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I gotta agree with Carmine on this use whatever cheap gas your car will run on my Challenger runs fine on 89, I save 20-40 cents over premium. Keep using the vehicle is best cure for gas anti gumming. I think a problem today's gas in old cars is it evaporates easier to help atomize, I don't know if they did add stuff back when to increase surface tension and it is not added now or vice versa. If you constantly let the car sit the gas evaporates out of float bowls and some out of the tank leaving the stuff that will not evaporate in tank or float bowls. New cars do not have these issues because the fuel system is not vented willy nilly to the atmosphere and no float bowls, and most likely being used every day.
I do not believe the snake oil claims of separating the the ethonol and unless it is being deposited into a little jug that you empty every so often where did it put it when separated, oh it still went through the system.
The 2 stroke oil provides a little corrosion protection by coating the innards with see I'll, that's it no magic, think rusty hinge.

When involved in xon gas stations, I heard the argument from several company sources that brands without a dedicated fleet could be using their stainless tankers for all sorts of loads... "just a cup of acid will change the whole load". IDK if there is any truth there, but I heard it enough

I guess this is possible but most tankers rarely deviate from one type of product, so truck contamination would be shakey argument at best and most that drop gas at your local retailer are not far from the tank farm or rack as they call it. I was more thinking that how the refinery gets to higher octane or if gas is in storage a while do they just add octane boost to ensure premium is 93 then you put it in your car 300+ miles away and add your normal stabil dose, I have no proof, science, other than random thought.

 

[moper]

All I do is buy fuel from either Mobil or Shell company stores, possibly jet up if the weather's still cooler, and make sure the timing curve is right. CT's had 10% ethanol for 10 or more years now.

 

[Carmine]

I only buy gas from places that accept EBT /bridge (welfare card). It's not that I'm on welfare, I'm just cheap.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

You guys realize that all the gas in a area comes out of same tanks and through same pipelines to the storage tanks. What do you think the Mobil truck only pulls up to the Mobil rack/tank.
Someday when your really bored go follow a local no name brand gasoline tanker around, you will be following Carmine to the EBT station. Anti-freeze and oils are the same way, big giant 5 story tanks out back, quart to 55gallon drums out the docks on the other side of the building. We hauled hundreds of domestic rail containers full of Chevron oil out of a bottler in the area and Chevron oil is not sold anywhere even close to Pittsburgh so stay with your brands the companies love it. Sure the additives that are added as it makes its way across the building are different but there is no magic.
Back to the gasoline tanker. If you think there is some smuck standing there pouring 5 gallon buckets of some chemical into that truck but not the next you obviously no nothing about transportation and logistics not to mention when the OSHA a hole shows up. If this were the case you would be waiting in line at the gas station again hoping they don't run out before you get to the pump.

 

[moper]

While you're right in some situations, the "company" stores only buy from the name brand fuel distributors. Some places do what you say - they'll sell anything. But if by some chance someone was to test what they sell, they can be sued for the "false claims" of performance additives that are not int he cheaper crap.
Yes - there are differences. And yes I can smell it and feel the difference in how my stuff runs. My LHS will get an extra 2-3 mpgs on the Mobil super from the one company store I buy it from.

 

[thrashingcows]

Well as a commercial fuel hauler now for over a year now I can say I now understand what happens at the refineries and the fuel going out to the stations a bit better. ;) Yes the same trucks will deliver to multiple stations, but the fuel we load at the terminals is different due to each one having it's own special additive formula, which can and will alter the fuel.

The fuel is mixed as it is loaded into the compartments on the trailers, gas/diesel/ethanol and specific brand additive. Once that particular fuel is loaded it can not be delivered to any other retailer. We have had problems with a dispatched load and the trailers had to sit for several days before they could be unloaded at a station. We can haul specific fuel for different stations on one truck load as well.....I have 6 compartments and can load Shell, Chevron, Esso, petrocan, Co-op, etc all on the same trailer load and deliver one compartment to each of those stations....but the compartment I unload is specific to the station.

Last night the terminal was having problems with the additive injection system and I had a heck of a time trying to get properly spec'd fuel for a couple retailers. The computer controlled quality of the fuel is actually very sophisticated. Our terminal had a bad mix on the winter diesel, and not out by too much either, and had to recall several million gallons of diesel from all the retailers that had received this diesel over the previous week or so....cost them 10's of millions to rectify the problem....and this was just a slight alteration to the mix. The retailers also pull samples out of the tanks in the ground regularly and have to send it for testing....so that also helps maintain quality control.

Even small mom and pop stations have to sign on with one of the big fuel distributors to be able to get any fuel. All of our small stations we deliver too are supplied with Shell, Esso, etc....but they get a "generic" fuel additive in the fuel from that supplier.

 

[thrashingcows]

As for fuel additive....I use Marine Stabil in all my gas powered equipment. Not had a problem since as long as I put the additive in.

 

[commando1]

I don't trust for one second any gas station owned and operated by the Indians. I dont care if the station is a top tier brand or not, they're thieves.

In addition to gawd knows what is coming out of their tanks, they do zero maintenence. At one scumbag station, it took about five minutes to pump a tankfull. I asked Asaami behind the counter, when was the last time they changed the filters. His reply: Filters???

And, jezzesHkriste, dont drink the coffee...

 

[detmatt]

Well as a commercial fuel hauler now for over a year now I can say I now understand what happens at the refineries and the fuel going out to the stations a bit better. ;) Yes the same trucks will deliver to multiple stations, but the fuel we load at the terminals is different due to each one having it's own special additive formula, which can and will alter the fuel.

The fuel is mixed as it is loaded into the compartments on the trailers, gas/diesel/ethanol and specific brand additive. Once that particular fuel is loaded it can not be delivered to any other retailer. We have had problems with a dispatched load and the trailers had to sit for several days before they could be unloaded at a station. We can haul specific fuel for different stations on one truck load as well.....I have 6 compartments and can load Shell, Chevron, Esso, petrocan, Co-op, etc all on the same trailer load and deliver one compartment to each of those stations....but the compartment I unload is specific to the station.

Last night the terminal was having problems with the additive injection system and I had a heck of a time trying to get properly spec'd fuel for a couple retailers. The computer controlled quality of the fuel is actually very sophisticated. Our terminal had a bad mix on the winter diesel, and not out by too much either, and had to recall several million gallons of diesel from all the retailers that had received this diesel over the previous week or so....cost them 10's of millions to rectify the problem....and this was just a slight alteration to the mix. The retailers also pull samples out of the tanks in the ground regularly and have to send it for testing....so that also helps maintain quality control.

Even small mom and pop stations have to sign on with one of the big fuel distributors to be able to get any fuel. All of our small stations we deliver too are supplied with Shell, Esso, etc....but they get a "generic" fuel additive in the fuel from that supplier.

I've often wondered if there was anything to all the claims and I'm happy to know that maybe there is.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Well as a commercial fuel hauler now for over a year now I can say I now understand what happens at the refineries and the fuel going out to the stations a bit better. ;) Yes the same trucks will deliver to multiple stations, but the fuel we load at the terminals is different due to each one having it's own special additive formula, which can and will alter the fuel.

The fuel is mixed as it is loaded into the compartments on the trailers, gas/diesel/ethanol and specific brand additive. Once that particular fuel is loaded it can not be delivered to any other retailer. We have had problems with a dispatched load and the trailers had to sit for several days before they could be unloaded at a station. We can haul specific fuel for different stations on one truck load as well.....I have 6 compartments and can load Shell, Chevron, Esso, petrocan, Co-op, etc all on the same trailer load and deliver one compartment to each of those stations....but the compartment I unload is specific to the station.

Last night the terminal was having problems with the additive injection system and I had a heck of a time trying to get properly spec'd fuel for a couple retailers. The computer controlled quality of the fuel is actually very sophisticated. Our terminal had a bad mix on the winter diesel, and not out by too much either, and had to recall several million gallons of diesel from all the retailers that had received this diesel over the previous week or so....cost them 10's of millions to rectify the problem....and this was just a slight alteration to the mix. The retailers also pull samples out of the tanks in the ground regularly and have to send it for testing....so that also helps maintain quality control.

Even small mom and pop stations have to sign on with one of the big fuel distributors to be able to get any fuel. All of our small stations we deliver too are supplied with Shell, Esso, etc....but they get a "generic" fuel additive in the fuel from that supplier.

Thank you, I guess I simplified it too much, but they do run all out of the same rack.

 

[thrashingcows]

I don't trust for one second any gas station owned and operated by the Indians. I dont care if the station is a top tier brand or not, they're thieves.

In addition to gawd knows what is coming out of their tanks, they do zero maintenence. At one scumbag station, it took about five minutes to pump a tankfull. I asked Asaami behind the counter, when was the last time they changed the filters. His reply: Filters???

And, jezzesHkriste, dont drink the coffee...

From a delivery stand point I find that they run their stations one extreme or the other....either spotless and everything is in great shape, or absolute neglect.

 

[commando1]

From a delivery stand point I find that they run their stations one extreme or the other....either spotless and everything is in great shape, or absolute neglect.

Have to ask...
What kind of equipment are you driving now.
Don't say it... Cascadias?

 

[CBODY67]

In an AACA forum, a carb rebuilder said that a customer brought in a carb for rebuild. Inside the float bowl, it had a pinkish coating (from evaporated fuel w/Stabil). He was worried that it all didn't come off. So, if you "Stabil", be sure to run that fuel out at the beginning of the driving season, not let it sit through that season!

I use the Lucas "green stuff" Ethanol Treatment. Keeps my lawn mower running smooth, rather than acting like it's got a berserk governor (when it has no governor). Keeps the plug very clean, too. PM me and I'll relate a funny story about how I came to use it.

Ethanol is a "cleaner" and "drier-outer of petroleum items it touches, plus the ill affects it has on metallic fuel system parts. Rubber fuel lines dry out from the inside out, then the outer layer of rubber flakes off and leaks result.

We've had RFG since the early 1990s. Originally just a bit less than 5% ethanol, with the balance of the 10% amont in the now-discontinued MTBE oxygenate. Chevron stated "harder staring, longer crank times" on its website early on. Plus a 3% fuel economy drop with RFG from the non-RFG fuel.

Seems like the early RFG was needed in higher altitudes, as Colorado, in the winter to combat low oxygen levels in the atmosphers? That was when all cars had carburetors.

When MTBE was removed from motor fuels, then "E10" resulted. 10% is the upper limit of ethanol by volume. There's a website for ethanol-free fuels. As noted many are 87 pump octane or about 92 Research Octane, at a time when "Regular" fuel was 95 Research Octane. In many WalMart stations, when they remodel the fuel islands, than have non-ethanol gas for about 25 cents/gallon more. At another nearby station, which has E85, the E85 is 30 cents/gallon less. Unsure of octane.

Fuel pump diaphrams are another area to keep an eye on! Even with the ethanol-resistant disphram material, if those disphrams every sit dry for a period of time, the rubber will become brittle. When the engine is restarted, the pump fails and leaks. Similar, possibly, with accel pump diaphrams on Holley carbs with the accel pump in the bottom of the float bowl.

There's now bulk fuel line which is more ethanol-resistant than the prior hoses. All rubber fuel lines built since 1992 are more resistant to ethanol than the prior ones were. Don't forget about the feel line from the fuel tank to the metal fuel line, either!

CBODY67

 

[commando1]

Just ask for fuel injected fuel line (aka "reinforced fuel line") and you're covered.
It's that simple...