OK I am a little behind the times but back in the day Champion was the go to spark plug (Circa 1979). What is the current thought? Engine is a 413. And i know that for the max energy transfer the coil needs to be matched to the load. For that reason you are not to run resistive HV wire with resistive plugs. I tend to run resistive wires with non resistor plugs. I read some of the Post on spark plugs but it is a mine field of "information".
Spark plug questions and spark wires.
- Thread starter fullsized
- Start date
If you ask 10 guys, you'll get 10 different opinions about what spark plug. I use Autolite.
For plug wires, I really like the plug wires from Lectric Limited | GM Mopar Ford Corvette Wiring Harnesses / Spark Plug Wires / Battery Cables / Switches They are a little more money, but they fit just like the originals.
For plug wires, I really like the plug wires from Lectric Limited | GM Mopar Ford Corvette Wiring Harnesses / Spark Plug Wires / Battery Cables / Switches They are a little more money, but they fit just like the originals.
Xcudame
New Member
Second recommendation! Eight to go!
I like using Champion RJ12YC plugs and Moroso spiral core wires. If you don't want resister plugs - J12YC.
DODGE Moroso 72656 Moroso Blue Max Spiral Core Custom-Fit Wire Sets | Summit Racing
I have run those wires and resister plugs for about 25 years on my 383 Challenger.
I like using Champion RJ12YC plugs and Moroso spiral core wires. If you don't want resister plugs - J12YC.
DODGE Moroso 72656 Moroso Blue Max Spiral Core Custom-Fit Wire Sets | Summit Racing
I have run those wires and resister plugs for about 25 years on my 383 Challenger.
As to spark plugs and wires, they all got mixed up in the 60s and later, when the cars were new. Stock coils were abt 30KV, as I recall. Many ign parts vendors want you to use THEIR coils, which are generally hotter, up to 50KV, BUT also consider that the coil will not produce that amount of voltage on every spark, just when it needs it to fire the plug. As an example, one time after j-gapping the plugs on our '66 Newport 383 2bbl, they all hit 8-9KV at idle on the Sunn scope at the local Chry dealership, at idle.
When the cars were built, Champion was the "captive brand" plug that Chrysler used. That was when Champion was its own stand-alone company. Since the 1980s or so, it became a property of "hedge funds" which bought other older, stand-alone car parts brands. BTAIM
Back in the 1970s-1980s, what worked at least as good as the Champions did was the Ford Motorcraft plugs! Better durability and resistance to electrode erosion, as to "gap growth" and such. In the middle 1980s, I discovered the NGK V-Power plugs and started using them, due to their gap design being better at getting the fuel/air mixture fired-off. Later, their Iridiums, for the same reason.
Plug wires? I started using the magnetic suppression wires from Borg-Warner in the 1980s. Before that, the first Sorenson Mono-Mag wires, one of the first magnetic suppression wires of the later 1960s. The B-W wires were termed "Kool Wire" wires. At least on my '77 Camaro, they looked just like the OEM wires, but with plug boots about twice as thick. That particular set has been on the car every since, now with over 500K miles on them. I put them on everything! Now as BWD brand at O'Reillys. Great pricing, great durability, great longevity as there is no carbon conductor to degrade with time. And they fit well, being pre-terminated. Usually in black wires and boots. I consider them, like the NGK Iridium plugs, "lifetime" in more ways than not.
The ONLY plugs I used that were chunked "before their time" was a set of Bosch plugs in about 1975 (as not being a good option for the Champions) and the famous "Split-Fire" plugs (too expensive, over-promoted, no durability) in the late 1980s.
When I bought my '80 Newport used, it has a set of Autolites in it. They were working fine and burning clean. No issues, but immediately after putting in that first set of NGK V-Powers, it immediately acted more responsive and "happier", which meant it was nicer to drive, but no more mpg.
The "minefield" is not nearly as scary at it might be, to hear some tell it. More "universal" in more ways than not, from my experiences.
I'm not sure the current "Champion" is as good as the Champions which came in the cars when they were new. Main thing is to match the heat range! Go one notch colder, if necessary to get a good match. Anything in the J-12Y or J-13Y range equivalent should work fine, adding "resistor" to the mix, if desired.
In the current Champion nomenclature, "R" = resistor, "J" is the thread length, "-12" is the heat range, "Y" is "extended gap" (which is better), and "C" = copper core.
What brand of plugs are in the engine now?
Just my experiences,
CBODY67
When the cars were built, Champion was the "captive brand" plug that Chrysler used. That was when Champion was its own stand-alone company. Since the 1980s or so, it became a property of "hedge funds" which bought other older, stand-alone car parts brands. BTAIM
Back in the 1970s-1980s, what worked at least as good as the Champions did was the Ford Motorcraft plugs! Better durability and resistance to electrode erosion, as to "gap growth" and such. In the middle 1980s, I discovered the NGK V-Power plugs and started using them, due to their gap design being better at getting the fuel/air mixture fired-off. Later, their Iridiums, for the same reason.
Plug wires? I started using the magnetic suppression wires from Borg-Warner in the 1980s. Before that, the first Sorenson Mono-Mag wires, one of the first magnetic suppression wires of the later 1960s. The B-W wires were termed "Kool Wire" wires. At least on my '77 Camaro, they looked just like the OEM wires, but with plug boots about twice as thick. That particular set has been on the car every since, now with over 500K miles on them. I put them on everything! Now as BWD brand at O'Reillys. Great pricing, great durability, great longevity as there is no carbon conductor to degrade with time. And they fit well, being pre-terminated. Usually in black wires and boots. I consider them, like the NGK Iridium plugs, "lifetime" in more ways than not.
The ONLY plugs I used that were chunked "before their time" was a set of Bosch plugs in about 1975 (as not being a good option for the Champions) and the famous "Split-Fire" plugs (too expensive, over-promoted, no durability) in the late 1980s.
When I bought my '80 Newport used, it has a set of Autolites in it. They were working fine and burning clean. No issues, but immediately after putting in that first set of NGK V-Powers, it immediately acted more responsive and "happier", which meant it was nicer to drive, but no more mpg.
The "minefield" is not nearly as scary at it might be, to hear some tell it. More "universal" in more ways than not, from my experiences.
I'm not sure the current "Champion" is as good as the Champions which came in the cars when they were new. Main thing is to match the heat range! Go one notch colder, if necessary to get a good match. Anything in the J-12Y or J-13Y range equivalent should work fine, adding "resistor" to the mix, if desired.
In the current Champion nomenclature, "R" = resistor, "J" is the thread length, "-12" is the heat range, "Y" is "extended gap" (which is better), and "C" = copper core.
What brand of plugs are in the engine now?
Just my experiences,
CBODY67
Last edited:
bronze turbine
Active Member
My lawn tractor wouldn't start. 2 year old Champion plug was a total failure. Grabbed a 40 year old Champion from my grandfather's old shed and installed it, runs like a charm. Just sayin'.
I think Autolite makes a good plug.
I think Autolite makes a good plug.
bronze turbine
Active Member
Here's another anecdote: AC Delco in my Chevy Celebrity lasted over 100,000 miles. Bosch Platinum in my Oldsmobile lasted less than 20,000.
I think AC Delco plugs are a very good choice.
I think AC Delco plugs are a very good choice.
I have no idea what is in it now, just got the beast. I did notice that the wires do not fit (8.5 mm). It has a Pertonix unit under the cap and a MSD Blaster II for the coil. Idles well but no brakes so I do not know much about it.
Sounds like the PO went to the "hot rod shop"?
lemondana
Active Member
AC Delco are the worst plugs ever, IMO. I was always a Mopar guy, use NOS Champions. Back in my younger days, one of my friends had a 68 SS 396 Camaro. One spting-he had let the Camaro sit for two years. He had other cars to drive. He called me to come over to help him get it started, he had tried it but it wouldn't start. I pulled a couple plugs out AC Delcos, they looked like new. He said he had changed them right before he parked it. I asked him if he had any plugs around-he pointed to a drawer that had a bunch of used plugs in it. I found 1 Champion that had about the same electrode length. But it was completely fouled by tan hard carbon buildup. I cleaned it up with his wire wheel. 1 Champion plug, probably not even near the right plug and it started. I was running very badly. I found a few more of those Champion plugs and it was running fairly well. Then another time my brother had a truck that he ran on propane. He had alot of miles on his plugs, I think he ran NGK's. My dad was going to town so brother ask dad to get him some plugs-told him NOT to get AC's. Dad came home with AC's, said that was all they had. Brother went ahead and put the AC's in. The truck ran like crap-he put his old plugs back in. Like I say-JMO. To anyone that uses AC's and your ride starts running crappy-put a different brand of plug in it. Prove it to yourself.
Unless someone wants to correct this, I think that looking at the advertising and design goals, magazine write-ups and what-have-you for modern plug wires is completely useless for our cars, cars with points and original coils, or even cars with retro-fitted or original electronic ignition. Aftermarket plug wires today are designed first and foremost to be compatible with heavily-computerized cars, and especially their fuel injection electronics and entertainment systems. Their diameters, dielectric properties, resistance, internal design, etc, are all of absolutely no use for our cars.
My dad tells me that resistor plugs came out in the 50's. Almost certainly to quiet the buzz on the car's AM radio and no other reason. I think it was technologically easier to put the resistor in the plug vs fabricating a long-lasting, durable, plug wire that maintained it's resistive properties over time. I'm talking the 5k ohms per foot or more that you see today. Our cars originally came with plug wires that were 500 ohms per foot.
Regarding Champion plugs (yes I know that they are and have been for a while just a marketing brand now, not like their aviation plugs), the resistors in Champ automotive plugs are somewhat strange in that you can't measure their resistance using a normal volt/ohm meter. There is a way, it involves using a high-voltage gadget. I mention this because it's well know for all resistive plugs that their resistance goes up as they age. You want to stay on top of this because it will affect the spark. The resistor is the weak link, it will degrade or fail and that accounts for various plug-not-working stories.
Again I think if you want reliability and a strong-working system for a 60's / 70's car, go with a non-resistor plug and wires that are 500 ohms/ft (not zero ohms like drag cars etc) and not 5k / 10k per ft as is sold today for HEI systems with touchy engine management / fuel injection computers. If doing that gets you a buzz on your AM radio, then go with resistor plugs but maybe not Champion so you can pull out an ohm meter and measure your plugs resistance later if you're trying to chase down a problem. Resistor plugs should have 5k resistance unless they're bad, and you can measure that for any plug except Champions.
My dad tells me that resistor plugs came out in the 50's. Almost certainly to quiet the buzz on the car's AM radio and no other reason. I think it was technologically easier to put the resistor in the plug vs fabricating a long-lasting, durable, plug wire that maintained it's resistive properties over time. I'm talking the 5k ohms per foot or more that you see today. Our cars originally came with plug wires that were 500 ohms per foot.
Regarding Champion plugs (yes I know that they are and have been for a while just a marketing brand now, not like their aviation plugs), the resistors in Champ automotive plugs are somewhat strange in that you can't measure their resistance using a normal volt/ohm meter. There is a way, it involves using a high-voltage gadget. I mention this because it's well know for all resistive plugs that their resistance goes up as they age. You want to stay on top of this because it will affect the spark. The resistor is the weak link, it will degrade or fail and that accounts for various plug-not-working stories.
Again I think if you want reliability and a strong-working system for a 60's / 70's car, go with a non-resistor plug and wires that are 500 ohms/ft (not zero ohms like drag cars etc) and not 5k / 10k per ft as is sold today for HEI systems with touchy engine management / fuel injection computers. If doing that gets you a buzz on your AM radio, then go with resistor plugs but maybe not Champion so you can pull out an ohm meter and measure your plugs resistance later if you're trying to chase down a problem. Resistor plugs should have 5k resistance unless they're bad, and you can measure that for any plug except Champions.
The OTHER reason that resistor plugs and plug wires are used is to reduce FM radio static on police radios used back then. Well before automotive FM tuners were in use or thought about.
One poster has mentioned using Packard stranded wire plug wires with a Rajah resistor end on them.
In reading the specs of some modern resistor plugs, all of the ones I've seen stated a 5000ohm internal resistance.
Used to be if non-resistor plugs were used, then resistor plug wires were needed for the total resistance value being enough to quieten the radio. When I went to the magnetic suppression wires on the '66 Newport, I could barely hear one spark plug "static" on the radio with the hood down, on a damp day. With the hood up, I could hear more of them.
When more cars had AM/FM radios in them, by the later 1960s is when the resistance wires came to be paired with resistor spark plugs. All OEM factory equipment. SAME ignition coil part numbers.
Modern cars do have their own set of "electronic shielding" issues for Infotainment, GPS, and engine management controls. PLUS the smooothness of the electricity flow in the wires!
Happy New Year!
CBODY67
One poster has mentioned using Packard stranded wire plug wires with a Rajah resistor end on them.
In reading the specs of some modern resistor plugs, all of the ones I've seen stated a 5000ohm internal resistance.
Used to be if non-resistor plugs were used, then resistor plug wires were needed for the total resistance value being enough to quieten the radio. When I went to the magnetic suppression wires on the '66 Newport, I could barely hear one spark plug "static" on the radio with the hood down, on a damp day. With the hood up, I could hear more of them.
When more cars had AM/FM radios in them, by the later 1960s is when the resistance wires came to be paired with resistor spark plugs. All OEM factory equipment. SAME ignition coil part numbers.
Modern cars do have their own set of "electronic shielding" issues for Infotainment, GPS, and engine management controls. PLUS the smooothness of the electricity flow in the wires!
Happy New Year!
CBODY67
Not really, he is 74 and just did not want to do points anymore. I am in my mid 60's And I do not blame hid. He also put in a dual/split brake system in. I approve of that and he still had the mono master cylinder. I do want to know were the Carter is-hate the Holley on it now. Carter 3858? And the factory air filter housing. Bits and pieces. The hunt is on!
Oh i know all about RFI noise. WE both are ham radio operators here. Last car had a nice set up for the HF rig mobile. Best I did with a whip was Ukraine on 10 meter FM running about 5 watts. About 15 years ago.
lemondana
Active Member
Back in the 70's when I was driving my 68 340 Dart, I had stainless solid core plug wires. That was back before cable TV. When I drove around town, I wrecked havoc with peoples TV reception.
carguy300
Well-Known Member
My 68 300 with 440 is all stock with point/ condenser ignition. Im running what the book calls for champions. Got my wires from lectric limited that Big john mentioned. Starts right up, runs great. Everybody has an opinion through experiance.
Xcudame
New Member
Hey, I still have my Packard 440 wire and Rajah connectors! Boy do they mess up the AM radio! I wonder if I put them back on and got close to a battery powered car if it would screw up their computers! Wouldn't that be hilarious!
I have that same combo in my '65 Barracuda along Autolite copper plugs with the Lectric Limited wires. Runs great.
Gerald Morris
Senior Member
I use the same. I plan to shield the power to my little 100W Pioneer amp better to cut the noise. The noise is way too low freq to fuckup modern computer ****. Use a C band microwave source, w a waveguide on a swivel mount and telescopic sights.
I love my Packard 440 wires and Rajah terminals! Been running Bosch platinum plugs made in West Germany w this and a Taylor coil. Unfortunately, Packard 440 wire has become absurdly expensive, and I might well use some impedance matching when selecting a replacement conductor. Still, the 383 runs very nicely with my ultra-primitive "solid core conductor" wires, and has for 8 years now.
Similar threads
