Stalls when put into gear

68-NewYorker

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I have a 68 New Yorker with a Holley 4160 on a 440 (350HP) that stalls out seconds after I put it into drive or reverse. I've read numerous posts from some very knowledgeable people on here regarding carbs, mixture and idle screws, chokes, distributors, vacuum advance and fuel. I rebuilt the original Holley with new gaskets,o-rings, etc and adjusted the float to spec. It was running fine prior but was leaking fuel so I did a cleanup and rebuilt the carb. The symptoms are; it starts up fine, idled too fast and would not drop when attempting to set the idle pumping the gas pedal. Vacuum lines are good and connected. Air cleaner is off. New plugs and wires, rotor and cap. Distributor is original(not a hex style). Dropped the idle and adjusted the mixture screws and moved the distributor to get a smoother idle by ear (and nose). When dropped into gear, it still sputters and slows down then stalls unless I keep touching the gas pedal. I cannot get it moving at all. I don't have a timing light but wanted to start here first to find what I'm missing.
 
I have a 68 New Yorker with a Holley 4160 on a 440 (350HP) that stalls out seconds after I put it into drive or reverse. I've read numerous posts from some very knowledgeable people on here regarding carbs, mixture and idle screws, chokes, distributors, vacuum advance and fuel. I rebuilt the original Holley with new gaskets,o-rings, etc and adjusted the float to spec. It was running fine prior but was leaking fuel so I did a cleanup and rebuilt the carb. The symptoms are; it starts up fine, idled too fast and would not drop when attempting to set the idle pumping the gas pedal. Vacuum lines are good and connected. Air cleaner is off. New plugs and wires, rotor and cap. Distributor is original(not a hex style). Dropped the idle and adjusted the mixture screws and moved the distributor to get a smoother idle by ear (and nose). When dropped into gear, it still sputters and slows down then stalls unless I keep touching the gas pedal. I cannot get it moving at all. I don't have a timing light but wanted to start here first to find what I'm missing.
A few responses from the past were to replace it with a Carter or Edelbrock but it seems everything is so close to working I would give it another go. I just need to know what to adjust to keep it running like it was. I do plan to invest in a new carb in the future.
 
First thing to do is buy a timing light. Even a cheap or a used one will do... Set the timing per spec and work from there. I'll bet it's not advanced far enough.

Second thing is to check for gas flow. Easy to do... Unhook the gas line up near the carb, and with a rubber hose, direct the fuel into a soda bottle. Disconnect the coil wire so it doesn't start.

Crank the engine over and you should have a strong stream of gas, filling the bottle in around 10 secs or less. If it doesn't do that, you have a fuel delivery problem, most likely a bad pump or pump push rod. There are other causes too, but that's the big ones.
 
I'm with @Big_John and I've had this same issue. For me it was a combination of the timing not being advanced enough and my idle screw not being adjusted correctly. Commenced with chasing my tail until I went back and started from basics with TDC, factory specs, setting the carb idle and mixture screws, etc.
 
Along with the timing light, use a vacuum guage when adjusting the mixture screw and timing.
Check for vacuum leaks aroubd the base of carb,intake,and any vauum lines and booster.
Spray wd40 or carb cleener.
A drop in vacuum under load can stall an engine.
It is after all..an air pump,basically
Hope this hrlps
 
Forget the new carb, for now. Take the approx $500.00+ and spend some of that on a good timing light and dwell tach. With those two things, you don't really need a vac gauge, from my experiences. Then you can do things reliably and repeatedly, very accurately.

Will the engine start from cold and run on fast idle as it should? But then falters when the engine warms and the choke goes fully open? With the idle mixture screws set at their base setting, per the FSM?

Presuming the engine was running decently before you did the rebuild, what issues were you seeking to remedy with the carb rebuild? Did you readjust the base idle speed screw in the process?

Until you can get the meters and such to make the settings, turn the hot idle speed screw inward 1/4 turn at a time until the engien will run in gear. Then increase it by 1/8 turn until the transmission goes into gear without jerking and smoothly, PLUS off-idle response is good. All with the idle mixture screws adjusted 1.5 turns from gently, fully-seated, as a beginning setting.

In my earlier years, the first and least expensive diagnostic tool I bought was a vac gauge. According to everything I read was that it could tell you anything you wanted to know about an engine's adjustments and health. For an idle mixture adjustment tool, not so much, from my experiences. But in the middle 1960s, things like dwell tachs and timing lights were what real mechanics used and were expensive (to me). But by 1969, I had a Sears Craftsman timing light and 1970 a Micronta multi-range dwell tach. With those two items, I had much better results than I ever did with a vac gauge. In modern times, both of those will not work on modern, computerized engines, typically, so finding some used might be easy. Every so often @halifaxhops has some for sale on here.

Sorry for getting a bit off track. There are some shadetree workarounds, but you do need the timing light and dwell tach to do a carb adjustment correctly with good results. @Big_John's comments about fuel pump checking are good, too. One other manner to check for the fuel level in the float bowl is to remove one of the front lower float bowl screws and catch the gas which runs out until empty. If it looks like it is pretty much 3/4 of the total float bowl capacity, no issues with the fuel supply or float level. Make sure the gasket on the screw head is still there when done, too! Do this on a cold engine for better safety.

I'm presuming the engine has less than 100K miles on it, so the fuel pump pushrod should still be useable. Considering that I've put over 150K on 383s before I even knew wear on that part was something to worry about. BTAIM

After doing all of these things, getting the timing light and dwell tach, you can't get the engine to run off of fast idle, that's another situation unique to itself. An easy fix, too.

Keep us posted, please.
CBODY67
 
New plugs and wires.... How about putting it on #1 cyl on compression, 15 deg BFTC, and then checking your cap order in relation to the rotor, and then double check the firing order of the wires going to the plugs?
 
Sounds like a vacuum leak or a lean condition.

Is the choke working right?

On a warm engine at idle, if you cover 3/4 of the top of the carb does the engine speed up or slow down.
 
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I didn't see it mentioned, so I'll ask. Is your choke working properly?

Does the stalling problem happen when you first start a cold engine, and have you tried it after letting it warm up enough for the choke to open up fully?
 
I have plenty of others also all price ranges. I have a calibrator for them and was an avionics guy in the USAF so easy for me to calibrate them.
 
First thing to do is buy a timing light. Even a cheap or a used one will do... Set the timing per spec and work from there. I'll bet it's not advanced far enough.

Second thing is to check for gas flow. Easy to do... Unhook the gas line up near the carb, and with a rubber hose, direct the fuel into a soda bottle. Disconnect the coil wire so it doesn't start.

Crank the engine over and you should have a strong stream of gas, filling the bottle in around 10 secs or less. If it doesn't do that, you have a fuel delivery problem, most likely a bad pump or pump push rod. There are other causes too, but that's the big ones.
Thanks for the tips. I found a timing light and vacuum gauge so I will be testing it out tomorrow. Gas flow is good. One or two pumps is all I need on a cold start. No pumps on a warm start. Choke opens fully after warming up for a few minutes.
 
Along with the timing light, use a vacuum guage when adjusting the mixture screw and timing.
Check for vacuum leaks aroubd the base of carb,intake,and any vauum lines and booster.
Spray wd40 or carb cleener.
A drop in vacuum under load can stall an engine.
It is after all..an air pump,basically
Hope this hrlps
Thanks cbarge. I will soon know more with the timing light and gauge. No obvious leaks but my booster seems to be going bad so I may have a leak on that line.
 
Forget the new carb, for now. Take the approx $500.00+ and spend some of that on a good timing light and dwell tach. With those two things, you don't really need a vac gauge, from my experiences. Then you can do things reliably and repeatedly, very accurately.

Will the engine start from cold and run on fast idle as it should? But then falters when the engine warms and the choke goes fully open? With the idle mixture screws set at their base setting, per the FSM?

Presuming the engine was running decently before you did the rebuild, what issues were you seeking to remedy with the carb rebuild? Did you readjust the base idle speed screw in the process?

Until you can get the meters and such to make the settings, turn the hot idle speed screw inward 1/4 turn at a time until the engien will run in gear. Then increase it by 1/8 turn until the transmission goes into gear without jerking and smoothly, PLUS off-idle response is good. All with the idle mixture screws adjusted 1.5 turns from gently, fully-seated, as a beginning setting.

In my earlier years, the first and least expensive diagnostic tool I bought was a vac gauge. According to everything I read was that it could tell you anything you wanted to know about an engine's adjustments and health. For an idle mixture adjustment tool, not so much, from my experiences. But in the middle 1960s, things like dwell tachs and timing lights were what real mechanics used and were expensive (to me). But by 1969, I had a Sears Craftsman timing light and 1970 a Micronta multi-range dwell tach. With those two items, I had much better results than I ever did with a vac gauge. In modern times, both of those will not work on modern, computerized engines, typically, so finding some used might be easy. Every so often @halifaxhops has some for sale on here.

Sorry for getting a bit off track. There are some shadetree workarounds, but you do need the timing light and dwell tach to do a carb adjustment correctly with good results. @Big_John's comments about fuel pump checking are good, too. One other manner to check for the fuel level in the float bowl is to remove one of the front lower float bowl screws and catch the gas which runs out until empty. If it looks like it is pretty much 3/4 of the total float bowl capacity, no issues with the fuel supply or float level. Make sure the gasket on the screw head is still there when done, too! Do this on a cold engine for better safety.

I'm presuming the engine has less than 100K miles on it, so the fuel pump pushrod should still be useable. Considering that I've put over 150K on 383s before I even knew wear on that part was something to worry about. BTAIM

After doing all of these things, getting the timing light and dwell tach, you can't get the engine to run off of fast idle, that's another situation unique to itself. An easy fix, too.

Keep us posted, please.
CBODY67
Thanks for the details you posted! Took the advice of getting some tuning equipment. Watched a few videos on tuning similar setups. Car starts with no problems. It does run as you mentioned. Normal fast idle at first, warms up, choke opens, got the idle to set, begins to run a little hot and rough within 3 minutes. Idle then is no longer smooth, slows and quits.
Mixture screws set outward 1 1/4 turns from seated haven't made much of a difference in the stalling issue yet.
Fuel pump is just a few years old so i'm thinking timing, vacuum leak and carb adjustment. I will be testing all 3 in that order next chance I get. Updates coming soon.
 
New plugs and wires.... How about putting it on #1 cyl on compression, 15 deg BFTC, and then checking your cap order in relation to the rotor, and then double check the firing order of the wires going to the plugs?
Thanks for this. I was reading up on BFTC and how that is important for timing, driving and fuel economy.
 
I didn't see it mentioned, so I'll ask. Is your choke working properly?

Does the stalling problem happen when you first start a cold engine, and have you tried it after letting it warm up enough for the choke to open up fully?
It appears the choke is working as expected. Completely closed on cold start and the car starts up fine. As it warms up the choke opens fully and stays there until I set it with the gas pedal. That's when it starts to get rough and begin to be inconsistent and slow to a stall out, or if I put it in drive or reverse.
 
I'm watching this as I'm having the exact same problem. Engine lopes like crazy, plugs are black as night. I sense a fuel issue, but I've tried almost everything under the sun to get it right.
 
I'm watching this as I'm having the exact same problem. Engine lopes like crazy, plugs are black as night. I sense a fuel issue, but I've tried almost everything under the sun to get it right.
If the plugs are "fluffy" black, that's fuel, meaning waaayyyyy too rich. If greasy black, that's oil, either from the valve guides or piston rings. Only way to tell without taking things apart is to use a borescope and look into the cyl. If the edge of the piston is clean, the oil is coming up from the "bottom side" as the oil is washing off any carbon on the piston top. If all of the carbon is on the edge, then from the top side, which would be valve guides AND seals.

What carburetor is on your engine? What spark plugs and gap?

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
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