67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Fug it , drive it before I never finish it... father in law and my kid in the back. my kids first time on a real drive in the car.
The Sheriff
- Thread starter 67Monaco
- Start date
Looks great... enjoy the car for a while, it will help you want to devote resources(time) to finishing and help everyone else understand what you're doing a little better.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Put 35 miles on the car today just putzin around the town here. By the end I noticed the car surging a bit at 50+. Shift 2-3 seemed to slip a bit the last few times. Got home and reverse took a second or two to go in. Ok, we've been here before low on fluid. Let sit for a few hours and cool down. Wife and kid came home, so I decide to take it to get some fluid. Trip there, everything was fine. 3/4 of the trip home every thing was fine. Last mile everything went pear shaped.
Coming into the development, it's a mile back to my house, I lose 3rd, we're only under power in 2nd. Got to the house and put in reverse, nothing. So I decide to push it back in the driveway. Got out, grabbed the funnel and put the pint it was asking for on the stick. Started up and she has reverse again. I'm not talking a long break we're talking 3 or 4 minutes, tops. No more slipping nice firm drop into gear.
So I have a question, are the '67 torgueflights this touchy on fluid level? OR, I suspect this, since I know the car's been hit a couple times, is it possible the dipstick tub and stick are wrong for the car? Like say it was pulled at some point during the repairs while it was being worked on? If so then that could explain why it's so touchy on fluid level as it could be perpetually low.
That or it is finally time for the other transmission get rebuilt and I do a swap in the next month or two.
Coming into the development, it's a mile back to my house, I lose 3rd, we're only under power in 2nd. Got to the house and put in reverse, nothing. So I decide to push it back in the driveway. Got out, grabbed the funnel and put the pint it was asking for on the stick. Started up and she has reverse again. I'm not talking a long break we're talking 3 or 4 minutes, tops. No more slipping nice firm drop into gear.
So I have a question, are the '67 torgueflights this touchy on fluid level? OR, I suspect this, since I know the car's been hit a couple times, is it possible the dipstick tub and stick are wrong for the car? Like say it was pulled at some point during the repairs while it was being worked on? If so then that could explain why it's so touchy on fluid level as it could be perpetually low.
That or it is finally time for the other transmission get rebuilt and I do a swap in the next month or two.
All hydraulic systems are that touchy to air getting into the circuits. Any automatic that manages to suck air will have problems like that. Pay attention to how she drives, 727's are tough (I am not the leading authority on automatics, but competent) you likely are OK from your description. Find and fix that leak right away though, ATF is hard on soft parts it soaks on (like mounts) and repeated abuse of running low is a big factor in wear and damage to hard parts in any transmission. BTW, the deeper performance pans and pickups were intended to address keeping cooler fluid, and would be a nice upgrade if they didn't become the first thing you tore off the bottom of the car if you ran over something.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
I know where the leak is, it's in the gear select seal. Pain in the arse to change and what not. I wasn't planning on replacing because I have a second transmission that is intended to replace this one. However, that was based on the symptoms reported by her grandfather some umpteen years ago, I.E. slipping and no reverse. But based on what I encounter with this car, I think the issue is simply really low fluid.
So I went out and investigated last night. I found the dipstick cap would slide up past the tabs on the stick as would the rubber stopper. This in theory would allow the stick to read deeper into the pan and thus give a false positive reading, I.E. only down a pint. I set everything down to the bottom stop, and used an automatic center punch to drive the tabs on the stick back out so that the cap cannot slide up to the loop on the dip stick. I'll be out later today to warm it up and see how low it really is.
However, if I'm correct, that seal is going to piss the contents of the torque-convertor all over me shoppe/garage. Then it's just deciding do I fix the leak and live with the transmission until she blows or R$R the thing.
So I went out and investigated last night. I found the dipstick cap would slide up past the tabs on the stick as would the rubber stopper. This in theory would allow the stick to read deeper into the pan and thus give a false positive reading, I.E. only down a pint. I set everything down to the bottom stop, and used an automatic center punch to drive the tabs on the stick back out so that the cap cannot slide up to the loop on the dip stick. I'll be out later today to warm it up and see how low it really is.
However, if I'm correct, that seal is going to piss the contents of the torque-convertor all over me shoppe/garage. Then it's just deciding do I fix the leak and live with the transmission until she blows or R$R the thing.
I have a cowl piece off of a 67 Fury if that turns out to be the piece that is the problem
Ripinator
Old Man with a Hat
In my experience, the TF transmission is very sensitive to fluid level. Even at a half pint low, the transmission does not behave correctly.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Ok so here's where we're at gent's and lady. Took it out, got it hot, so I could check the fluid level, almost lost 1st completely again pulling into the development. Noticed however turning right I slip in first, left turn and I have some ummpf. Sounds to me like she's low on fluid. Get back and check in the garage, it's level. Down a pint, add the rest of the quart I bought last night. Run the gear selector through the gears a few seconds at each detent. Checked again, I can't really see where we're at, lots of pink but below the add pint line. ?
So I decided to shut it down and wait a few minutes, BS with the neighbor and check again. This time I run through the gears again, and sure enough it looks like it's actually down a quart. It's really odd be cause before I added the last pint it was barely above the add pint line, now it's lower even after the addition of the first pint todfay. Honestly I had to take the dipstck out in the sun just go I could be sure what it was I was seeing. Checked 3x.
I have little faith that the dipstick was reading right all this time right now.
I'm almost to the point of dropping the pan, pulling the valve body, fixing the leak, draining the TC and refilling with what it should have as far as what the factory calls for. Then verifying the mark on the dipstick and remarking if necessary. Almost.
So I decided to shut it down and wait a few minutes, BS with the neighbor and check again. This time I run through the gears again, and sure enough it looks like it's actually down a quart. It's really odd be cause before I added the last pint it was barely above the add pint line, now it's lower even after the addition of the first pint todfay. Honestly I had to take the dipstck out in the sun just go I could be sure what it was I was seeing. Checked 3x.
I have little faith that the dipstick was reading right all this time right now.
I'm almost to the point of dropping the pan, pulling the valve body, fixing the leak, draining the TC and refilling with what it should have as far as what the factory calls for. Then verifying the mark on the dipstick and remarking if necessary. Almost.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Welllll that sucked. Goes into gear nice and firm. Shifts firm. Downshifts like a dream, exactly where I want it to. Gets warm, slip city drove the last mile in 2nd, have to rev to about 2500rpm to get it to move in reverse. Only when warm. I know what I have to do... Crikey.
carrman
Senior Member
My '66 300 did that, found pieces of band material in the pan.
The trannie guys at work have recommended these folks to me. You're going for pretty much a stock rebuild, right?
Whatever It Takes Transmission Parts
kits are cheap...
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67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Finally all my parts have come in. Got out side got the input shaft swapped, started putting it all back in the case and no issues. Well something has to go wrong. Nothing goes this smoothly, ever. Get to the point of sliding the pump on, no worky. ??? Take everything back out to the point of the input shaft slide the pump down, and it stops. WTF? No No NO I read. I know what I needed to order.
Go back and hit the books, here is where my selective reading comes in to play. Again. Replacing the input shaft requires replacing the stator support or reaction shaft if going from 66 to 67. .050" difference. DOH.
I have more searching to do. So there's that.
Go back and hit the books, here is where my selective reading comes in to play. Again. Replacing the input shaft requires replacing the stator support or reaction shaft if going from 66 to 67. .050" difference. DOH.
I have more searching to do. So there's that.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Old transmission is out. Yay happy Friday to me. Anyway.
In professional terms that transmission was Horked. In not so professional terms, Knackered.
Oh yeah, the clutches were waffle style. Most of the clutch material was gone. But it was gone from the center, the outer edges seems to still have material. Weird.
A few snaps for proof and posterity.
I don't think it's supposed to have that much free space. Maybe .030 to .060 but that's over .125.
I think these steels are supposed to be flat. They were blued and heat cracked as well.
In professional terms that transmission was Horked. In not so professional terms, Knackered.
Oh yeah, the clutches were waffle style. Most of the clutch material was gone. But it was gone from the center, the outer edges seems to still have material. Weird.
A few snaps for proof and posterity.
I don't think it's supposed to have that much free space. Maybe .030 to .060 but that's over .125.
I think these steels are supposed to be flat. They were blued and heat cracked as well.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Well I got gears now. Still one the cribbing and jack stands on the rear. One the stands she shifts exactly like she should.
Now I have to decide how I'm handling a new carb flooding issue. Like over flowing carb issue. I think either the needle is stuck open, or the electric pump is sending too much pressure. Sigh.
Two steps forward, one step back. So I've been firing the pump for a bit to fill the bowl, run til she starts to stumble, fire the pump for a couple seconds to fill the bowl again rinse and repeat. All while trying to run the selector and fill the trans. 10qt later and we're full.
Off to Napaonline to see if I can find a carb kit local, or even remotely local.
Now I have to decide how I'm handling a new carb flooding issue. Like over flowing carb issue. I think either the needle is stuck open, or the electric pump is sending too much pressure. Sigh.
Two steps forward, one step back. So I've been firing the pump for a bit to fill the bowl, run til she starts to stumble, fire the pump for a couple seconds to fill the bowl again rinse and repeat. All while trying to run the selector and fill the trans. 10qt later and we're full.
Off to Napaonline to see if I can find a carb kit local, or even remotely local.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Welp it isn't the cheeseless floats. They seem empty, light as a feather and the needle and seats seem to work as raising them prevents any blow through. I have a kit arriving at the local napa tomorrow and I'll replace the needles just in case there's dirt or something on them.
If it continues I know I'll be looking at a regulator.
Son of a diddly.
If it continues I know I'll be looking at a regulator.
Son of a diddly.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
We'll may be one of the needles stuck when the car fell off the jack. . Put it back together and no issues flooding.
Drove great on partial throttle. at wot it shifted just like light acceleration and went in to 3rd real quick. no kick down over 50. made an adjustment to the throttle side of the kickdown linkage as it was almost 3/16 off the rod. couldn't test because the afternoon storms rolled in. hopefully that fixes it. I'll know more tomorrow.
Drove great on partial throttle. at wot it shifted just like light acceleration and went in to 3rd real quick. no kick down over 50. made an adjustment to the throttle side of the kickdown linkage as it was almost 3/16 off the rod. couldn't test because the afternoon storms rolled in. hopefully that fixes it. I'll know more tomorrow.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Adjustments are making it better. Shifting closer to where I like it but no kick down. I have a few other things to try and I'll see how it works out.
On a side note, or by the by, I've noticed that the coolant temps are WAY down. Almost in half. The old transmission couldn't have been generating that much heat could ? One the gauge the last few times out on the old transmission temps read about 2/3's up to hot. Now, it's below half. in much hotter weather. Today was 92 vs the 70's previously. Maybe too anecdotal yet. Who knows.
On a side note, or by the by, I've noticed that the coolant temps are WAY down. Almost in half. The old transmission couldn't have been generating that much heat could ? One the gauge the last few times out on the old transmission temps read about 2/3's up to hot. Now, it's below half. in much hotter weather. Today was 92 vs the 70's previously. Maybe too anecdotal yet. Who knows.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Welp gave it more throttle linkage, verified the carb was wide open when on the floor, gave it another two turns on the kickdown side of the lever. Adjusted the throttle cable so there's no slack at idle. Shifts exactly where I want it to now. Comes down to first like it's supposed to, but no kick down.
I noticed that the bellcrank moves sideways for the first almost 1/4 - 1/3 throttle before applying rearward movement. Going to fix that next and test again. Most likely I'll just take a piece of round stock and mill it so that there's no space between the bellcrank and the outside washer.
After that I'm going to look at the length of throw on the 66 throttle lever vs the 67. Might be I been to harvest it off the 67 and put it on the 66?
Last swap meet got a line of a pair of stainless Magna Flows $25 for the set. Pick em up next swap meet. Had to measure to make sure I had the 24's on each side to work with.
AND that Carter electric fuel pump is flaking already. The simple snap on power connectors already loosened up on their posts. Gotta fig that out now. On the good note, won't cost nothin'.
I noticed that the bellcrank moves sideways for the first almost 1/4 - 1/3 throttle before applying rearward movement. Going to fix that next and test again. Most likely I'll just take a piece of round stock and mill it so that there's no space between the bellcrank and the outside washer.
After that I'm going to look at the length of throw on the 66 throttle lever vs the 67. Might be I been to harvest it off the 67 and put it on the 66?
Last swap meet got a line of a pair of stainless Magna Flows $25 for the set. Pick em up next swap meet. Had to measure to make sure I had the 24's on each side to work with.
AND that Carter electric fuel pump is flaking already. The simple snap on power connectors already loosened up on their posts. Gotta fig that out now. On the good note, won't cost nothin'.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Happy frickin day.
Made this sucker at lunch on the mill don't mind the facets, it's done on a minimill, don't have a lathe or a rotary table. Took all the side to side movement on the kickdown bellcrank, just a big thick washer..
Also adjusted the shift lever as I noticed the other day if I moved the lever up ever so slightly the shift points went slightly higher when told me I wasn't completely set in 3rd. Maybe on the downsiode of the detent. Reset and it all feels ok.
Took it out for a spin and shift points were noticeably higher. Almost exactly like I like it. Plus side, a rolling 40mph kickdown resulted in a nice 2-3 upshift at 57mph on the gps.
At least she has kick down now. Not at higher speeds but then I don't know if it should. But it kicks down, shifts firm at 57.
So yeah, yay me.
Made this sucker at lunch on the mill don't mind the facets, it's done on a minimill, don't have a lathe or a rotary table. Took all the side to side movement on the kickdown bellcrank, just a big thick washer..
Also adjusted the shift lever as I noticed the other day if I moved the lever up ever so slightly the shift points went slightly higher when told me I wasn't completely set in 3rd. Maybe on the downsiode of the detent. Reset and it all feels ok.
Took it out for a spin and shift points were noticeably higher. Almost exactly like I like it. Plus side, a rolling 40mph kickdown resulted in a nice 2-3 upshift at 57mph on the gps.
At least she has kick down now. Not at higher speeds but then I don't know if it should. But it kicks down, shifts firm at 57.
So yeah, yay me.
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
I guess I just wasn't jumping on the throttle hard enough. Went out for a drive and tried to kick it down a again since I love the sound when she spins up. Anyway, low speed kicked down just fine as it has been. But then I noticed something in the pedal, if I went to where I thought the full throttle was, and gave it just a little more pressure the pedal moved about another 1/2". That's all it needed to kick down at highway speed, maybe 55 or so. First time seemed to take a second or two to really kick down. After that though, one I found how she liked it, it was instantaneous. I didn't have the GPS on this time, and I haven't swapped the proper speed-o gear in, to tell where the shifts were but it was a fun ride is all I'll say about that.
I also took the time to get the crap out of the trunk. By crap I mean old pieces of lino and carpet stuck in place by a tar like substance, I'll see if I can find some old pics of it. Anywho. Three 13 gallon trash bags full of chemical laden paper towels later I can actually see the trunk floor. WD-40 does wonders on tar if you let it sit long enough. (Pro tip, buy it by the gallon folks) Over two days I'd spray the trunk let it sit for several hours then come back with a scraper and like a hot knife through room temperature butter scrape the tar off. Finished it up with lacquer thinner to get to the bottom of it. It needs a good wire wheeling to get all the crusty stuff off. Maybe next weekend.
Also found all four bolts in the trunk where the 2 way equipment was mounted. Interesting as I've only ever noticed one and wondered what it actually was there for.
I also took the time to get the crap out of the trunk. By crap I mean old pieces of lino and carpet stuck in place by a tar like substance, I'll see if I can find some old pics of it. Anywho. Three 13 gallon trash bags full of chemical laden paper towels later I can actually see the trunk floor. WD-40 does wonders on tar if you let it sit long enough. (Pro tip, buy it by the gallon folks) Over two days I'd spray the trunk let it sit for several hours then come back with a scraper and like a hot knife through room temperature butter scrape the tar off. Finished it up with lacquer thinner to get to the bottom of it. It needs a good wire wheeling to get all the crusty stuff off. Maybe next weekend.
Also found all four bolts in the trunk where the 2 way equipment was mounted. Interesting as I've only ever noticed one and wondered what it actually was there for.
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