Timing chain....do I need to worry about it? If so how?

[traintech55]

That's what killed my parents 1973 Fury with a 318 in it. Mom just left the house and car died, called AAA and the gas station just down the road sent out a pump jockey in the tow truck to jump start it. Long story short crank crank crank till a piston broke off one valve head and locked up the motor. I hadn't been in touch in awhile and they couldn't reach me via my beeper because they still had rotary dial phones in the house. I finally get the call when the gas station wants $1,200+ to most likely put in a boneyard motor which I can get for $100/$150, I cheep out on the job with my boneyard letting me pull 2 heads, 2 pistons & rods plus pushrods for fifty $. Didn't even send the heads out, learned that lesson with the 440, just a light grind & lap, chain kit, swap rings & bearings over to used pistons, good to go on the cheep.

I had the same thing happen to my ex wife with a 1975 fury with a 318. Chain jumped and with it cranking out of time, she thought the battery went bad. Here comes a pump jockey and same thing. She could not understand why the engine made so much noise when it started. She ended up bending 12 of the 16 valves, so timing chain, and a valve job later, car ran great for another 5 years after I sold it.

 

[marty koirtyohann]

I am planning a massive trip in my '77 Newport....to Montana and back to DC with the wife. The car has the 400 engine. I have about 61,000 miles on the clock. I belive the chain on the engine is original.

I maintain the car and engine well. But I have never thought about the timing chain, and I wonder if this should be looked at before I leave. If it broke on the road I would be screwed, no?

Can anyone give me guidance? Can my trusty mechanic look at the chain and see visually if it looks worn? How you you tell? How much of the engine needs to be disassembled to do that?

What's involved cost wise to replace the chain on a preventive basis, and what's the best chain to use?

Thanks for you help per ususal guys.

Peter Clancy

if I was you I would replace both the water pump with a new one not a rebuilt & a double row steel timing set . dont do like I did ,wait till it threw the chain it bent every vaivue in the 440 but 3 I had to rebuild the entire motor also u may want to replace the fuel pump push rod they dont cost thar much & it just good insurance while u have it down my new Yorker had about 140k on it but its a mopar service thing if u change the water pump change te timing set too (a stock pump will last about 80-90k miles by then the nylon is off the cam gear ) & its time to replace the timing set .it is what I would do

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

if I was you I would replace both the water pump with a new one not a rebuilt & a double row steel timing set

I agree on the *NEW* water pump after having 2 come backs with my Napa supplied rebuilt water pumps I stopped installing them, not worth the price or trouble, this all depends on what the 'Jobber' price level you get for the new vs. rebuilt.
On my $100 beater 1968 Fury III 4dr I skipped the double row for the stock link type chain and when I opened it up I found that there was no nylon top gear installed from day one (fleet vs retail) probably the only reason it still ran at 200k+ miles, so I cheeped out even further and just put the chain on and took the gears back. Just a beater DD by then and it was on it's final days sooooo.

 

[BillGrissom]

Changed the timing set in my 1965 383 around 1996. I differ with the "pretty easy" statement in an early answer. You must remove the radiator to get room to pull the damper off w/ proper tool, remove water pump housing, and probably the oil pan to get a good seal, which likely means jacking the engine up, thus perhaps change motor mounts. I wouldn't go in there unless planning to fix everything. Also the perfect time to consider upgrades like camshaft & lifters, new intake, silicone oil pan gasket, alum water pump & housing, and such. I recall my 383 had the nylon-toothed upper sprocket (for less noise) and all the teeth were intact after ~30 years though perhaps the tooth tips worn a bit. I have a different block in the car now.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Changed the timing set in my 1965 383 around 1996. I differ with the "pretty easy" statement in an early answer. You must remove the radiator to get room to pull the damper off w/ proper tool, remove water pump housing, and probably the oil pan to get a good seal, which likely means jacking the engine up, thus perhaps change motor mounts. I wouldn't go in there unless planning to fix everything. Also the perfect time to consider upgrades like camshaft & lifters, new intake, silicone oil pan gasket, alum water pump & housing, and such. I recall my 383 had the nylon-toothed upper sprocket (for less noise) and all the teeth were intact after ~30 years though perhaps the tooth tips worn a bit. I have a different block in the car now.

Not on a formal, plenty of room for puller.
Don't get spooked by this post. A 65 fury is a way different animal than a formal Chrysler.
You don't need upgrades like aluminum water pumps and housings on a car we're it takes 2 people to lift each bumper, by itself.
They make I timing gasket set for a BB /Hemi, it works well, no need to touch the oil pan bolts on the block.
Changing Camshafts in a 7:1 compression 400 is not going to do anything, think no more about it.
Your 400 has a excellent intake, just like M1 dual plane, but in cast iron.
I would stick to changing the chain because you have the time and it's just good insurance after 40 years.

 

[marty koirtyohann]

I am planning a massive trip in my '77 Newport....to Montana and back to DC with the wife. The car has the 400 engine. I have about 61,000 miles on the clock. I belive the chain on the engine is original.

I maintain the car and engine well. But I have never thought about the timing chain, and I wonder if this should be looked at before I leave. If it broke on the road I would be screwed, no?

Can anyone give me guidance? Can my trusty mechanic look at the chain and see visually if it looks worn? How you you tell? How much of the engine needs to be disassembled to do that?

What's involved cost wise to replace the chain on a preventive basis, and what's the best chain to use?

Thanks for you help its totally up to u but if it dose throw the chain I bet u will bend most every value in the 400 then u will have the expense of replacing the valves the head or both if u have a shop do it u r talking a grand at least then they may put the same stock silent gear (the nylon coated cam gear) I would have a good mopar freind help u do it yur self u can get everything u need from a federated /road pro parts store that r way cheaper than the big box stores then u may want to freshen up the rest of the motor new bearings rings ,cam lifters if u go with a rv cam like the 440 magnum cam u will need to put in different valve springs if u r goingbto take along trip I would freshen it up first .u can do it now ow later on the road then the least u will have a tow bill cost of a shop fixing it & a motel bill I would bet it would cost u a drand to fix it then he cost of the room & the tow . its up to u

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Not on a formal, plenty of room for puller.
Don't get spooked by this post. A 65 fury is a way different animal than a formal Chrysler.
You don't need upgrades like aluminum water pumps and housings on a car we're it takes 2 people to lift each bumper, by itself.
They make I timing gasket set for a BB /Hemi, it works well, no need to touch the oil pan bolts on the block.
Changing Camshafts in a 7:1 compression 400 is not going to do anything, think no more about it.
Your 400 has a excellent intake, just like M1 dual plane, but in cast iron.
I would stick to changing the chain because you have the time and it's just good insurance after 40 years.

Yea the BB is easier to do because you don't have that new rubber oil pan to timing cover seal to compress like on the SB engines.

But wait, we can turn this simple timing chain replacement thread into a full blown engine rebuild thread can't we?

Has the OP looked at the freeze plugs yet? WE NEED PICTURES!

 

[james bernard]

Even though this is unrelated to your timing chain, you may want to have a spare ignition control module if it hasn’t been changed. Or maybe change it and keep the original as a spare.

 

[1978 NYB]

Needing to change a 40 year old timing chain ended up with this.....

 

[Davea Lux]

I bet it runs better now.

Dave

 

[Pclancy]

Even though this is unrelated to your timing chain, you may want to have a spare ignition control module if it hasn’t been changed. Or maybe change it and keep the original as a spare.

Many thanks. Will do.

 

[brougham brummel]

When i was 27,and had a pick up truck,i tore apart a 78 NYB,in a Honda dealership lot,I pulled all 4 doors,and both bumpers off,all by myself.Those bumpers,oof,are really heavy.Just enthusiasm and hormones.heh.One of the best days of my life.It was just fun.The last NYB i had,had all the great chrome i took off that car.The grille inserts,hood ornament,bumpers,VIP wheels.I signed the car over to Vinces auto parts in 94.The car needed drive train work and i wouldn,t lie to people about the condition.My original NYB just wouldn,t start one day.And a few years later,i stripped that car of parts,i believe the timing chain broke.One day I,ll have another.Need another year or two before i do.B.B

 

[1978 NYB]

I bet it runs better now.

Dave

Oh just a little bit. LOL!

 

[1978 NYB]

When i was 27,and had a pick up truck,i tore apart a 78 NYB,in a Honda dealership lot,I pulled all 4 doors,and both bumpers off,all by myself.Those bumpers,oof,are really heavy.Just enthusiasm and hormones.heh.One of the best days of my life.It was just fun.The last NYB i had,had all the great chrome i took off that car.The grille inserts,hood ornament,bumpers,VIP wheels.I signed the car over to Vinces auto parts in 94.The car needed drive train work and i wouldn,t lie to people about the condition.My original NYB just wouldn,t start one day.And a few years later,i stripped that car of parts,i believe the timing chain broke.One day I,ll have another.Need another year or two before i do.B.B

Vince's on Route 7?

I know where that is. I have found a few parts in there years ago.

 

[brougham brummel]

Vinces in maryland off philadelphia rd.It,s great finding parts,isn,t it.

 

[1978 NYB]

Vinces in maryland off philadelphia rd.It,s great finding parts,isn,t it.

.
Yep

 

[NewportRbod]

I would like to know the same, please and thank you.

I once got 20 mpg with my 74 Newport. However, I had to drive carefully. Gentle starts and stops, no kick downs, coasting when able and staying at or below 55. This Newport had the highway gears and carter thermoquad 4 bbl..

It was more fun to kick it down and hear the roar now and then. The difference was now getting 10 to 11 miles per gallon. The main difference was more the smiles per gallon.

 

[NewportRbod]

I am planning a massive trip in my '77 Newport....to Montana and back to DC with the wife. The car has the 400 engine. I have about 61,000 miles on the clock. I belive the chain on the engine is original.

I maintain the car and engine well. But I have never thought about the timing chain, and I wonder if this should be looked at before I leave. If it broke on the road I would be screwed, no?

Can anyone give me guidance? Can my trusty mechanic look at the chain and see visually if it looks worn? How you you tell? How much of the engine needs to be disassembled to do that?

What's involved cost wise to replace the chain on a preventive basis, and what's the best chain to use?

Thanks for you help per ususal guys.

Peter Clancy

It doesn't hurt to change to a CLOYES dual roller chain and gear set. Most likely the original would be ok. The issue is that it is 40 some years old, you probably do not have the full maint. record, and by pulling the cover you can check for interferrence, replace the gasket, and inspect the woodruff key.

I would change the waterpump, pressure check the radiator, change all hoses / clamps / belts, and coolant. Tune it up -change plugs, fuel filter, set idle, carb ok?, kickdown linkage ok? fuel lines / connector hoses. Look at brakes, brake lines (flex and solid), brakes, master cylinder / fluid, pack and adjust wheel bearings, flush. Check charging system and battery for output, bearing noise etc., change tranny fluid / filter, check tran. cooler lines etc.. Check drive shaft, grease u-joints. Check differential and change fluid. Shocks? Look at gas tank / straps /cap / vents. Throw in a basic support kit of tools, fluids, liquids, maybe a service manual, fuses / fusible links and some wire and connectors. My experience the more you prepare the less you repair. Get some good smiles per gallon

 

[NewportRbod]

I had the same thing happen to my ex wife with a 1975 fury with a 318. Chain jumped and with it cranking out of time, she thought the battery went bad. Here comes a pump jockey and same thing. She could not understand why the engine made so much noise when it started. She ended up bending 12 of the 16 valves, so timing chain, and a valve job later, car ran great for another 5 years after I sold it.

 

[NewportRbod]

318 is a pretty good engine. A weakness they have is the distributor shaft. It snaps and distributor stops turning. Fragments can end up in oil pump and tears follow. Most pump jockeys aren't mechanical beyond jumps or oil change.