Warranty Question Regarding Baxter Oiling Solution for 3.6L

[attaboy]

Hello,
I recently purchased a 2023 Chrysler 300 w/3.6L motor (don't laugh as my previous 300C had a Hemi). I have been reading about the potential problems with the dry start oiling that the 3.6L might experience. The solution seems to be to install a Baxter oiling system. I am, of course, concerned about the new car warranty should I install this product. I need definitive proof that this will not void my warranty. Can any provide information on the subject? Anyone from Chrysler willing to speak up?
Thanks,
attaboy

 

[CBODY67]

I would suspect it WOULD void the engine warranty only. Any OEM is only responsible for what THEY produce and install at the factory.

I ran across that video and wondered about many other things related to oil pressure lube times at start-up. Many modern engines (as the GM LS family) use a rear sump oil pan and have the Gerotor oil pump on the nose of the crankshaft, which means the oil has to travel about 2 feet before it gets to the oil pump. No lube issues there, from what I've seen.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the plastic engine oil cooler, as to longevity.

Consider, too, that when an engine stops, there is still some residual oil in the oil galleries above the main bearings and such. As soon as the oil pump turns with the starter, that oil is pushed into the bearing areas, so what they term "a dry start" is not really as "dry" as they allude to, seems to me.

I would ALSO trust Chrysler engineering to have known about that alleged issue with "time to fill the filter", after an oil change, too. Never did hear of any widespread issues due to that, either . . . if it produced "imminent damage" within the warranty period or 100k+ miles afterward. Considering all of the publicity that the Hemi Tick has gotten.

You can always buy the extended warranty, if desired, but that might not be a great investment. Using full-syn oil from the start, letting the dealer do the oil changes (paper trail) from new would be a better investment.

If you still have the vehicle after all powertrain warranties expire, then get the Dorman Metal Engine Oil Cooler installed.

The MAIN thing I see about the Baxter system is that it takes special procedures at each oil change. Take it to somebody who knows nothing of those procedures and things might get worse.

MIGHT be better to advise the oil change operatives to put the oil into the engine via the oil filter housing rather than the valve covers? Although I have not investigated how that might benefit things, it might be an option.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[attaboy]

Thanks for the input. I agree with much of what you say. I'm not doing anything soon and hope that I can get an answer from Chrysler. That may be the most difficult thing...

 

[CHARLES374]

Have one on my 2014 200 3.6l. What " special procedure" are you refering too ?

 

[CBODY67]

Have one on my 2014 200 3.6l. What " special procedure" are you refering too ?

The "special procedure" I saw involved the use of air pressure to allegedly get oil into the filter faster upon start-up, after the oil change. Seemed to me to be something the normal oil change people would not be aware of or know how to do. Whereas an owner-maintained vehicle would not have that issue, by comparison.

After considering the dynamics of the situation, compared to other engines, it started to look like an expensive fix for a problem that apparently is not of major consequences. MY determination without further evidence of unread-about-high mileage maint issues.

Thanks for your input,
CBODY67

 

[CHARLES374]

The use of air pressure is to drain the filter prior to removing it so it doesnt make a mess. There is a dedicated valve on the unit for that. Other then that

it is the same procedure. My car make's zero noise on start up now. Put it on at about 50,000 miles have almost 80,000 on it now.

 

[attaboy]

The "special procedure" I saw involved the use of air pressure to allegedly get oil into the filter faster upon start-up, after the oil change. Seemed to me to be something the normal oil change people would not be aware of or know how to do. Whereas an owner-maintained vehicle would not have that issue, by comparison.

After considering the dynamics of the situation, compared to other engines, it started to look like an expensive fix for a problem that apparently is not of major consequences. MY determination without further evidence of unread-about-high mileage maint issues.

Thanks for your input,
CBODY67

Thanks for the reply. The air pressure thing for regular oils changes is slightly cumbersome and possibly a problem if a garage does the work. The whole procedure is possibly an unknowmn to the mechanic. All may be worth it if the original problem really exists. I really wish Chrysler would chime in and put this to rest.

 

[300rag]

@Dobalovr , care to chime in?

 

[CBODY67]

I really wish Chrysler would chime in and put this to rest.

Don't hold your breath on this. The obvious implication, considering the engine has been in production for as long as it has, even the last variation, would be that "It met our engineering targets before it went into production/testing/validation. The fact the engine has a long production life, that should speak for itself."

A side issue is that IF there was an "early issue" with the oiling systems, as the 300s and Chargers are in many rental car fleets, since the 3.6L V6 has been out, if there were any problems, those cars would have been deleted from the fleets, at the first opportunity, and something else would have been substituted to replace them. These cars are usually turned before they get to 65k miles, though. BUT getting regular oil and filter changes. Car rental companies need vehicles that don't break and stay available for rental service. Vehicles that "break" are not needed. Similar with law enforcement fleets.

Seems like a part of that "special procedure" was to disable the ignition to allow the filter to pressurize, then un-disable the ignition so the engine would start? I understand the orientation behind the device, but to use it should be easier for all, including the people who didn't know about it.

Just some thoughts,

CBODY67

 

[attaboy]

Interesting and thoughtful points and I certainly appreciate them. Still, this should be addressed by Chrysler itself if for no other reason than there are 10 million of those motors out there.

 

[CBODY67]

Interesting and thoughtful points and I certainly appreciate them. Still, this should be addressed by Chrysler itself if for no other reason than there are 10 million of those motors out there.

Again, don't hold your breath. For them to endorse that product would indicate they didn't do things as well as they might have. To them, the large numbers of engines in use is validation enough that they did good in their designs and such.

Additionally, their "obligations" end with the OEM factory warranty's end. Past that, it's up to the customer to service and maintain their vehicle to prevent issues.

The YouTube channel "I DO CARS" tore down a broken 3.6L out of a Pacifica not long ago. Check that video out. Eric does a good job with those videos. Quite interesting and informative about "modern" engines' designs and durability.

Of course, you can always email an inquiry to Chrysler operatives, with your concern. The one time I did that, with another OEM, I got back a "stock reply" thanking me for my interest in their products, etc. Took about 2 weeks, too.

CBODY67

 

[300rag]

The standard warranty disclaimer says that any system touched by an add-on/change will be denied warranty coverage if the root cause of the problem is caused by the add-on. If a problem is detected in those systems and is not related to the add-on, then it is covered. Look for that in your warranty guide.

 

[attaboy]

I agree with what you say. I don't hold out much hope getting anything from Chrysler except the normal canned response. I may make the "mod"and change the oil on my own instead of the normal dealer oil change deal that is priced very well.

 

[attaboy]

I did. It is sufficiently vague to cover anything they need it to cover....to cover themselves. I suppose I could just wait for it to happen and deal with the extended warranty repairs and the associate time and trouble

 

[CBODY67]

I agree with what you say. I don't hold out much hope getting anything from Chrysler except the normal canned response. I may make the "mod"and change the oil on my own instead of the normal dealer oil change deal that is priced very well.

One HUGE pitfall of doing your own oil changes during warranty is Credible Documentation. Rather than having dealer or oil change place repair orders in some electronic storage facilities, which are findable online or in the Chrysler corporate database, you have a hodge-podge of many sales receipts to file, take care of, and protect from normal deterioration. I mention "deterioration" as so many receipts are now heat-print paper and any images can and will disappear with time and heat, becoming very dim or unreadable as they age. That would just prove you bought the materials, but no documentation of WHEN the oil was changed. Just looking for paper trail items, no more, no less. So that it's not your word against "their's" should an engine warranty claim happen.

In the old Usenet BBS bulletin board for Chrysler items, there was an account of a man and wife buying a new Dodge Caravan in the 1980s (when many engines were considered "sludge monsters" and good motor oils weren't addressing this situation). He wanted to take care of it himself, which is always an option. He went to the dealership's service manager and asked what brand of motor oil they used. So he bought that brand of oil and a quality oil filter. A few oil changes into their ownership, the engine seized one day driving down the California freeway.

When the engine was taken apart, "sludge" was the failure mode, so no warranty coverage. The angry owner protested, saying he'd done his own oil changes at the prescribed times. He had not kept the flaps on the oil filter boxes or all of the sales receipts for the oil and filter. Expensive lesson, unfortunately. So be advised.

At this time, all dealers will store their repair orders electronically, plus report things like consumer-pay services to CarFax and others. Any warranty repairs are in the OEM corporate database.

Disposal of used engine oil and filters can be another issue. Having to carry them to the auto supply where they were purchased, for example. One thing not to have to worry about doing if an enterprise does the oil change. FWIW

Have a happy new year!
CBODY67

 

[twostick]

Look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It covers stuff like this.

Kevin

 

[Dobalovr]

@Dobalovr , care to chime in?

Been away so late to the Party....

Let me put it this way .... If you alter the design, operation or intended use on a vehicle still under warranty FCA will use that as the club to beat you with and deny you warranty for any engine related issue. Hell if you can not produce proof you did oil changes regularily they will deny any warranty. We use that engine in everything and I don't recall ever running into a dry oiling failure that wasn't related to improper maintenence or poor quality/wrong viscosity oil. Yes the upper valve train is prone to taking a while to produce suffucient oil pressure as the Hemi guys are aware and are using the Hellcat Oil Pump to counteract that but for the 3.6L you are at the mercy of the oil gods. Once the factory warranty has run out anything goes.

 

[CBODY67]

Been away so late to the Party....

Let me put it this way .... If you alter the design, operation or intended use on a vehicle still under warranty FCA will use that as the club to beat you with and deny you warranty for any engine related issue. Hell if you can not produce proof you did oil changes regularily they will deny any warranty. We use that engine in everything and I don't recall ever running into a dry oiling failure that wasn't related to improper maintenence or poor quality/wrong viscosity oil. Yes the upper valve train is prone to taking a while to produce suffucient oil pressure as the Hemi guys are aware and are using the Hellcat Oil Pump to counteract that but for the 3.6L you are at the mercy of the oil gods. Once the factory warranty has run out anything goes.

Over the years, it seems that many consumers are not aware of the extensive R&D activities the OEMs put products through BEFORE they hit the showrooms. I know, as well as they might test things, there will always be some customers who can tear up an anvil in a sandpile. Which is one reason Chrysler used their in-house relations with Dollar and Thrifty Car Rental to place early-production models at their larger airport rental stations. Accumulate lots of miles quickly in different environments.

Then, they put their factory sales, parts, and service reps in their products, to generate in-house data on those vehicles, too, before the vehicle "went to the dealer auctions". In the LH years, they'd even use their regional tech-instrtuction center operatives to test some refinements in products (as brake pads) as a part of the evaluation period.

Granted, where the OEMs set their "benchmarks of performance" can vary, BUT you can bet that if they are chasing a law enforcement customer, THEY want to ensure that customer has no issues with their vehicles! IF anything happens that is durability-related, it gets addressed and fixed to maintain that customer. Ford and GM do this, as the pre-Stellantis Chrysler also did this. As these things filter down to the retail customers, it makes for a better total vehicle for them too.

AND, IF that oiling issue really is a durability issue related to the engine's design, it IS ALSO possible that the engineers upgraded certain parts to better tolerate the situation! End result, no issues until the 3rd owner might get the vehicle after 300K miles, at which time the engine would need to be rebuilt anyway, or is in the salvage yard, where it would be sold as "a core" only.

I am not against private inventors devising ways to make things better, but it sometimes seems that they play into the possible fears of people in order to sell their products. NOT saying that that is the case with this product, just an observation I've seen over the years with many other products. Some people used them with no adverse issues, for example, as others did not know of them and had no adverse issues either.

Make your own decisions and enjoy life,
CBODY67

 

[attaboy]

Been away so late to the Party....

Let me put it this way .... If you alter the design, operation or intended use on a vehicle still under warranty FCA will use that as the club to beat you with and deny you warranty for any engine related issue. Hell if you can not produce proof you did oil changes regularily they will deny any warranty. We use that engine in everything and I don't recall ever running into a dry oiling failure that wasn't related to improper maintenence or poor quality/wrong viscosity oil. Yes the upper valve train is prone to taking a while to produce suffucient oil pressure as the Hemi guys are aware and are using the Hellcat Oil Pump to counteract that but for the 3.6L you are at the mercy of the oil gods. Once the factory warranty has run out anything goes.

I have come to the conclusion that probably the best idea is to get an Mopar extended warranty that covers the engine/drive train (and everything else) well into the 100,000 mile range, get the dealer to do the oil changes (they still have the best prices), drive it, and wait....