What Is A Survivor?

[cantflip]

Thank you everyone who answered so far, I appreciate the comments and opinions. Don't get me wrong the stuff can easily be undone, if we so choose but it's too bad we no longer have a survivor especially in a wagon as it seems they are getting pretty rare these days. Bummer

Quit worrying about it... That's a sweet wagon, enjoy her as you like. Personally, I'd want to stay stock, but I get where you're coming from. I can't say that I'd never want to do the same if she were mine.

They are all survivors, in my mind. People have surgeries, why not our cars?

I refer to cars as original, but when I see a car that has only had the simple maintenance items replaced, I will call it a survivor, but it's mostly still all original parts, that's my reasoning.

Sorry buddy... but the interior replacement would be like a few facelifts and/or liposuction, the 440 would equal a giant penile implant... hard to claim it's all as nature intended afterward.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Drive, fix, drive, enjoy.

 

[CBODY67]

If you walk through the "Survivor" display tent at Mopar Nationals, you'll find completely original, unmolested vehicles with VERY low miles. All cleaned and spiffed as if they were new, on the showroom floor. Many with their original window stickers. That you might wonder who would have saved them originally, but might have been stuck in a garage for many years, becoming an "estate car". But there can also be some completely original Hemi cars, too. One particular '67 Charger comes to mind. Completely unmolested by the original owner AND the later owner who wanted one just that way.

Now, a "survivor vehicle" might also be a vehicle that's still in use, mostly (other than normal maintenance things) original in intent and execution. When I was running the annual show for our North Loop Dodge Performance Team, I developed a judging sheet which defined the class orientation. In "Stock" class, a few things were allowable (OEM chrome valve covers and breather caps where they didn't come from the factory, but might have been a "dress-up package"), a small under-dash gauge set (oil pressure, coolant temp, usually), and the addition of factory wheels from a different application. A few additions with the intent of maintaining a "stock" look. Past that, it became "Street Performance" or "Custom", depending upon an increasing level of modifications/upgrades. More aftermarket chrome under the hood, aftermarket wheels, or similar would make it "Street Performance". Each change had a point value and we prototyped the point breaks to make sure that a custom didn't show against a Street Perf class vehicle, but if the Street Perf vehicle had too many additions, it became Custom, anyway.

I know that many seem to like "the attitude" of a lowered front ride height, BUT to me, one of the great joys of a Chrysler torsion bar front end is the firmness of the slightly stiffer torsion bars over typical coil springs. As lower the ride height/preload on the torsion bars results in s softer spring rate, that lowered front end results in that softer ride, PLUS decreased wheel travel over tips. Which, to me, is one of the great things about the '69-'71 Dodge B and C-body cars. A natural wedge shape of the body, with the rocker panel being parallel to the ground. And, the wagons look extra good on those model years!

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[bluefury361]

But is it a survivor paint wise?

The correct way to state this is "original paint".
A original starter bolt doesn't designate a "survivor" either.

 

[bluefury361]

[QUOTE="LeBaron1973,
Terms are specific like the term Classic- many folks consider any old car a classic, but the Classic Car Club of America consider a Classic to be from 1915 to 1948, usually an expensive high end car and only what that club consider an Approved Classic, but that definition only applies to the CCCA and the vehicles they decided to include on their list.QUOTE]

True. The term "classic" gets thrown around a lot in the collector car world.
There are no classic Chevys, Road Runners, Mustangs, etc. as recognized by the CCCA.

 

[3175375]

If you walk through the "Survivor" display tent at Mopar Nationals, you'll find completely original, unmolested vehicles with VERY low miles. All cleaned and spiffed as if they were new, on the showroom floor. Many with their original window stickers. That you might wonder who would have saved them originally, but might have been stuck in a garage for many years, becoming an "estate car". But there can also be some completely original Hemi cars, too. One particular '67 Charger comes to mind. Completely unmolested by the original owner AND the later owner who wanted one just that way.

Now, a "survivor vehicle" might also be a vehicle that's still in use, mostly (other than normal maintenance things) original in intent and execution. When I was running the annual show for our North Loop Dodge Performance Team, I developed a judging sheet which defined the class orientation. In "Stock" class, a few things were allowable (OEM chrome valve covers and breather caps where they didn't come from the factory, but might have been a "dress-up package"), a small under-dash gauge set (oil pressure, coolant temp, usually), and the addition of factory wheels from a different application. A few additions with the intent of maintaining a "stock" look. Past that, it became "Street Performance" or "Custom", depending upon an increasing level of modifications/upgrades. More aftermarket chrome under the hood, aftermarket wheels, or similar would make it "Street Performance". Each change had a point value and we prototyped the point breaks to make sure that a custom didn't show against a Street Perf class vehicle, but if the Street Perf vehicle had too many additions, it became Custom, anyway.

I know that many seem to like "the attitude" of a lowered front ride height, BUT to me, one of the great joys of a Chrysler torsion bar front end is the firmness of the slightly stiffer torsion bars over typical coil springs. As lower the ride height/preload on the torsion bars results in s softer spring rate, that lowered front end results in that softer ride, PLUS decreased wheel travel over tips. Which, to me, is one of the great things about the '69-'71 Dodge B and C-body cars. A natural wedge shape of the body, with the rocker panel being parallel to the ground. And, the wagons look extra good on those model years!

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

To qualify Elwood, would I have to put the baling wire back on the power steering return hose @ the pump?

 

[LocuMob]

Sorry buddy... but the interior replacement would be like a few facelifts and/or liposuction, the 440 would equal a giant penile implant... hard to claim it's all as nature intended afterward.

I wasn't referring to any one car in particular. And I wasn't being too serious, I'll never have to worry about owning a survivor.

 

[70_NPORT]

Some folks will agree on this, some will disagree on that. I tend to believe "survivor"....is that which exists in the eye of the beholder really.

 

[Big_John]

"Survivor" "Barn Find" "Numbers Matching" "Frame Off Restoration" "Date Coded" and "Original" are terms that are subject to loose interpretation.

IMHO, these are pretty much worthless terms and usually used when money or status is somehow involved.

IMHO, if you had to qualify a car as a "survivor", it would have to wear 90% of its original paint, 95% of its original interior, all the mechanical parts would have to be as installed by the factory and never removed. Wear parts like brakes, belts and hoses could be replaced, but quite frankly, I would put more credence in a "survivor" car if it had, for example, a radiator hose that said "Gates" on it because the owner/corner repair shop replaced it in 1998 rather than some fake date coded repop that was made in an overseas factory. But that's me.... I'm a skeptic when it comes to most claims of "originality". I was around when these cars were new... They never looked that good back then.

I'm not a "date coded" headlight kind of guy... I got out of the muscle cars because I wasn't and I was tired of hearing the BS... My cars weren't built to get towed behind an expensive truck in a big box.

 

[LocuMob]

IMHO, if you had to qualify a car as a "survivor", it would have to wear 90% of its original paint, 95% of its original interior, all the mechanical parts would have to be as installed by the factory and never removed. Wear parts like brakes, belts and hoses could be replaced, but quite frankly, I would put more credence in a "survivor" car if it had, for example, a radiator hose that said "Gates" on it because the owner/corner repair shop replaced it in 1998 rather than some fake date coded repop that was made in an overseas factory. But that's me.... I'm a skeptic when it comes to most claims of "originality". I was around when these cars were new... They never looked that good back then.

There was a '68 Dart GT that a FABO member bought, and was the cleanest example I've seen, it was a reference type car. Only belts and hoses and tires. He sold it because it was too nice, his words. He later wished he had kept it. I'll try to get some pictures.

 

[polara71]

There was a '68 Dart GT that a FABO member bought, and was the cleanest example I've seen, it was a reference type car. Only belts and hoses and tires. He sold it because it was too nice, his words. He later wished he had kept it. I'll try to get some pictures.

I know that feeling ...

 

[cbarge]

My cars weren't built to get towed behind an expensive truck in a big box.

Ditto here,Big John.
All my cars were built to be driven.
If any of my cars are on a trailer it is because it broke!!

 

[live4theking]

Ditto here,Big John.
All my cars were built to be driven.
If any of my cars are on a trailer it is because it broke!!

Hopefully not stolen.

 

[livininharrow]

in reality any car that hasn't been sent to the crusher is a survivor.

 

[70_NPORT]

"My cars weren't built to get towed behind an expensive truck in a big box"

Amen to that. I've had A,B,E & C body cars. Drove all them everyday - whenever I could (except 4 snow days). Savored every moment on the highway, road, dirt path, whatever. Great memories that are still being made to this day.