Who to blame for 440 Throwing a Rod

[Lil_Hoss]

Going to be verbose with this to try and provide a full context. I recently purchased a 1966 New Yorker 4 door hard top with a 440 in it. I made an attempt at driving it home after buying it but pulled over and had it towed after about 80 miles due to some concerning new sounds. Took it to the trusted family mechanic of many years. Although he doesn't specialize in late models I confirmed that he was comfortable with the car before making the purchase and relying on him to make any repairs that are out of my capabilities. After getting the New Yorker he replaced the spark plugs, ignition coil, distributor, refinished the valve covers and air filter housing and did an oil change. When he called me to get the car I was informed he has ordered the parts to rebuild the carburetor and a replacement gas tank because a fork lift damaged mine at some point and is causing a slow leak. There are also some small holes in the exhaust meaning it will need replacing, the noise that caused me to pull over was the speedometer cable which he also has ordered parts for but he assures me the car should be fine to drive for a few days while some of my family's vehicles can get in for maintenance. At this point he did not have the invoice prepared for the repairs and said he would have it ready next time I saw him. Because of the slow gas leak and a dysfunctional gas gauge the first thing I did was put a few gallons into my tank for insurance before I had picked up any lead substitute to use on the fill ups. I then got on the highway to have a quick drive before going to get my failed inspection sticker. About 15 minutes down the road I see thin white vapor streams out the rear view small enough that I believed it to be salt initially. About 5 seconds later the streams are slightly larger and definitely smoke, I put my blinker on and start moving over. By the time I am in the middle lane a giant cloud of smoke goes up and I am pretty sure I heard a large bang but it was barely audible over the speedometer cable. Get the hood open and coolant is boiling so hard that it continues to overflow for a good 3 or 4 minutes vapor coming out of the valve cover cap and the oil dipstick. Call in a tow truck to have it taken back only to see a rod and piston hanging out of the of bottom of the block and dangling under the suspension. I am now quite close to having a replacement block sourced but we haven't had the conversation regarding who/what is at fault for this weird catastrophic failure and how the payment will go. Is it likely that I made a mistake after picking up the car/ made a bad purchase to begin with or is my mechanic the one likely at fault?

 

[GOLDMYN]

Fault? No one. stuff happens with old cars, only place you get a warranty is new car. Just my $.02

 

[Triple Pickle]

I can’t see how the mechanic could be to blame. He didn’t touch the internals of the engine. A car that is nearly 60 years old is pretty ripe for this type of thing.

 

[Jengel451]

You need to eat this one, nobody's fault as stated it's an old car.

 

[rkrochen]

I agree with everyone else you will have to eat this one. Sad to say but it sounds like it’s one of those things that just happens. Don’t waste time trying to find fault it just consumes energy that could be spent on something more fruitful. Good thing is you asked for advice.

 

[Samplingman]

I would have thought there would have been some tell tale sound or signs that would have alerted the mechanic, but even so, wouldn't have been his fault. Have the machine shop do an autopsy on the motor after its pulled to see if the seller pulled a fast one on you, but then again most old cars are "where is, as is". Maybe its time for a modern Hemi engine upgrade.

 

[413]

This is your problem now.

I’d say the previous owner could have known something. These 440’s don’t just toss a rod on a whim. Did it make any odd sounds? When it comes apart you will know. More, fresh gaskets? Check dates on bearing shells. See what other bearings look like.

How many miles did you drive it?
how high of RPM did you rev it up?
what did the oil look like when changed?

 

[RemCharger]

The old fashioned blame- game, love it.
In the trade we call it the "ever since".
Ever since you changed my brake bulb, my front tire goes flat.
Ever since you changed my coolant, the diff blew up. Can't believe you didn't tell me.
And on and on.

 

[Justin Plant]

I believe you just found out why the seller was ditching the car.

 

[RWCearley]

A few years back I had a rod let go on my alfa romeo. I rebuilt the engine and had a machine shop check the condition of the rods. That said, after so many yrs of service any rod will be suspect. You can only bend a piece of metal so many times before it breaks.

Just recently rebuilt my cosworth vega. The machine shop said it was time to replace the rods. They were high performance chevy pink rods. As recommended, new rods went in.

Given the age of our chryslers, I would recommend using new rods when rebuilding.

 

[Lefty71]

Honestly. I'm wondering if you were'nt driving it with a blown head gasket, diluting the oil with coolant into the bottom end. If that's the case, you and you alone would be responsible for stopping the engine before further damage. Sounds like you should pay your mechanic.... I cant see from this description where he did anything wrong. But, as others have already said, you may have found why this turkey was for sale (a compression test could possibly have confirmed). Cheer up tho, if it's a nice car, finding a usable 440 bottom end isnt going to be that big of a deal. I would tear the old one down like Sherlock Holmes, looking for clues at the scene of the crime.

 

[thethee]

I'm just sitting here trying to figure out how a speedometer cable can make so much noise that throwing a rod is "barely audible".

 

[Blusmbl]

I've bought some crappy cars in my time and I never blame the seller, and in your case it doesn't sound like the mechanic did anything that could have hurt it either.

If the engine had good oil pressure and no noises when you bought it, it's really just bad luck. It could've been a bad head gasket, or a cracked head or block, but if it was a pre-existing problem the oil would've looked like a milkshake when your mechanic changed the oil and I hope he would've told you about it before proceeding further.

 

[1970FuryConv]

Going to be verbose with this to try and provide a full context. I recently purchased a 1966 New Yorker 4 door hard top with a 440 in it. I made an attempt at driving it home after buying it but pulled over and had it towed after about 80 miles due to some concerning new sounds. Took it to the trusted family mechanic of many years. Although he doesn't specialize in late models I confirmed that he was comfortable with the car before making the purchase and relying on him to make any repairs that are out of my capabilities. After getting the New Yorker he replaced the spark plugs, ignition coil, distributor, refinished the valve covers and air filter housing and did an oil change.

When your mechanic did the oil change, did he notice any problems with the old oil? Like white creamy oil that indicates coolant/water contaminating the oil? OTOH he could have had a shop boy drain the oil and never have looked. The best mechanics don't do oil changes. The low man on the totem pole does them.

Creamy oil on the dipstick or valve cover oil cap would have tipped you off at point of sale.

Rod bolts do stretch. I had a friend rebuild a 440 in Dodge Challenger and decide against new rod bolts. Not 50 miles after the rebuild, the engine threw a rod due to rod stretch. So what happened to you can happen with no warning signs.

Sorry this happened. I think you need to pay for the new motor. Not the mechanic's fault regardless of condition of oil at oil change. In the end, a bad motor that he did an oil change on is still the owner's responsibility.

 

[rags]

only to see a rod and piston hanging out of the of bottom of the block and dangling under the suspension.

a rod AND a piston. i know how big a 440 piston is.

Get the hood open and coolant is boiling so hard that it continues to overflow for a good 3 or 4 minutes vapor coming out of the valve cover cap and the oil dipstick.

so a piston came out past the crank, through the pan without damaging the side of the block or piercing the water jacket anywhere? the block still held pressure to push the coolant past the pressure cap? i don't believe it. the coolant should have been on the ground with all the oil.

 

[rags]

I'm just sitting here trying to figure out how a speedometer cable can make so much noise that throwing a rod is "barely audible".

yeah, me too. but... i had a sprinter van with a rod bearing seized to the crank. had been in a front end collision that damaged the oil filter housing and the crew didn't have enough brains to shut the engine off. it seems it shut itself off after puking all its oil. idiots at the body shop had trouble getting it to start. liars said some wiring had been damaged. they didn't realize that it wouldn't crank because the engine was seized even though they replaced the housing and filled the oil. they kept hitting the starter until the rod bearing spun in the rod end. started and ran quiet. they gave it back to us and i yard drove it for a couple of weeks while i finished the repairs that they didn't do. of course no one told ME it had been run out of oil! i finished it up and went to road test it. got about a hundred feet. that being said, i don't believe this other guy for a minute.

 

[commando1]

This is so simple.
It wasn't anybody else's fault so you think about that.

 

[Demonic]

If I bought a vintage car, unknown condition, I would at least attach an oil pressure gauge to one of the two pipe taps at the top rear of the block and zip tie an oil pressure gauge to the windshield wiper.

 

[RWCearley]

There is no fault with this. It was just time. Vintage autos have problems not seen on newer vehicles. Remember most of the engine and driveline components are 50 + yrs old. The fact that they been in service this long is a testament to the engineering and manufacturing process of long ago.

Just think of our health 50 yrs ago compared to how most of us feel today. Age matters, whether it be health or mechanical components.

Just rebuild the engine with as many new components as possible and enjoy you c body.

I'm in the process of restoring my 71 new Yorker now. Then I plan to drive it until they either take my license away or there no more gas.

 

[CBODY67]

How long had the car been inactive BEFORE you bought it? By observation, Chrysler engines do not throw pistons and rods without something else causing them to do that. Just not in their DNA, by observation. The old steel shim head gaskets can deteriorate if the corrosion protection in the coolant is not maintained. THAT might be the root cause of the whole situation. But there should have been some tale-tell signs of that over time. Something for which there is a test for . . . combustion gases in coolant, other than ballooning radiator hoses.

Perhaps you bought the car at the right time, just before these things started to happen, or they happened after a time when they might have been apparent? Or the failures happened so quickly to notice while driving.

IF the lube in the speedometer cable housing (?) was old and dry enough to cause a loud sound to mask other engine sounds . . .

As a side note, the front casting of the B/RB blocks changed sometime in the middle 1970s, so make sure of the casting date on the new block to make sure you do not need to also chase the newer mounting brackets and such.

So far, it appears your mechanic is doing a decent job, so repairing the car with similar new/reman parts is a better way to go rather than getting him involved in a Gen III Hemi swap (as good as that might be), I suspect. With the new fuel tank, ALSO replace all of the segments of rubber hoses in the fuel system, as they are not long-term compatible with the current ethanol'd fuels. Seeking to fine non-ethanol fuel is not a good solution to that issue, either.

When all is done, you can reliably enjoy the car.

Take care,
CBODY67