ZDDP in engine oil

[1970FuryConv]

I'm building a 440. Hughes cam: 2024BL. 220/224 duration .503/.518 lift at valves. At installed height, valve springs are 150-160 lbs pressure. A friend told me that this is a lot higher than stock 100-125 pounds. I spoke to Dave Hughes and he is pushing Joe Gibbs break in oil for ZDDP during initial break-in and Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil for ZDDP for use with flat tappet cam and high pressure springs during daily driving. I bought the Joe Gibbs break-in oil.

I drove a Hughes cam with Hughes springs in a 360 for 10 years from 2004-2013 approx. Ran with conventional motor oil. Not a problem ever.
What do you think of this ZDDP issue?
What motor oil are you using?

The Debate Over Reduced ZDDP and Wear Protection

 

[300rag]

I use this Lucas product

 

[twostick]

What is the open pressure?

Most 15w40 diesel oils are still north of 1000 ppm which should be sufficient for most flat tappet cams that aren't trying to run a roller lobe.

Check Bobistheoilguy for oil analysis of different brands of Heavy Duty Engine Oils (HDEO)

Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site

Kevin

 

[FURYGT]

My engine builder as well as my "race car mechanic" both use Brad Penn now Penn Grade break in oil. It is a synthetic blend. I use their regular oil in my C Bodies because it has ZDDP except for the Flyin Whale, in which I use Royal Purple because of that engine's oil requirements.

 

[cbarge]

My buddy James and I built several motors with big cams.
Never seen the need to waste money on expensive oil for the break in.
You're gonna dump it after 500 miles anyways.
We had zero cam failures using traditional 10w30 with either STP oil treatment or AC Delco oil Treatment.
As long as the motor oiling system has been primed,and has good oil pressure,good to go.
After the break-in oil is changed, I use Pennzoil High mileage with STP additive.
Why?
As most of you know, I do a ton of highway driving with the BoaB.
When on the road I can get either the oil or additive on the shelf anywhere on the road.
Try that with your Joe Gibbs products.
Sure I keep at least 1 quart in the trunk for top ups.
But I am not about to carry a bunch of special order oil in my trunk when on the road.

 

[detmatt]

Penn Grade all the way!

 

[Newport 66]

I use Wolf's Head and include Lucas Oil ZDDP at drain intervals and same for break-ins. Always have good success. I have used JGR assembly lube with good results.

 

[Luke Pokrajac]

Valvoline Racing Oil 10W-30

 

[MEV]

Hughes says use zinc

 

[stubs300]

Hughes says use zincView attachment 357977

All it says is, "Use 10/30 high zinc oil and lube the OD of the body as well as the wheel on the roller lifter", and that's in the installing and adjusting lifters section! I don't see any **** elsewhere else that say to use zinc?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

All it says is, "Use 10/30 high zinc oil and lube the OD of the body as well as the wheel on the roller lifter", and that's in the installing and adjusting lifters section! I don't see any **** elsewhere else that say to use zinc?

Yes flat or roller you only want oil on the body and lifter bores. The cam break in grease or moly lube only goes on the love and flat tappet face, not all over the damn place.
Better wording would be to have left the roller example out of this write up.
It is about flat tappets, they turn/rotate.
If a roller lifter rotates it is bad!

Use high zinc oil that is made that way. Additives to SM, or SN oils are not great in my opinion. The detergent package is not made to work with ZDDP and will remove or degrade it over time.
I am also not a fan of 10w30 period. It is winter oil IMO and unless your daily driving in the dead of winter 20°f and down it has no purpose in a carbureted car.
If you do not do a lot of short trips I see no need to use 10 weight oil period. 15 or 20 with a stock pump is plenty. Cracks me up to see a High volume pump on a car that never sees over 5k RPM and then has 10w30 in it.
Best advice is use oil that has higher ZDDP from the start.
Harley oils, most racing oils that are not SN rated, and "old" diesel oils, most emission diesel oils are no better than the 5w20 in your new Ram, old car speaking.

 

[300rag]

...
I am also not a fan of 10w30 period. It is winter oil IMO ...

Yes, Mr. 15w40

 

[Davea Lux]

I use the 15w-40 also in all my C-Bodies. I do not much care for the after market additives on cars that spend the winter resting as a lot of the additives will settle out of the oil to the bottom of the pan.

Dave

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Yes, Mr. 15w40

I only use it in my big truck.
20w50 Penn Grade in the cars. Mainly because either car can get caught in show traffic with extended idle times.

 

[MEV]

All it says is, "Use 10/30 high zinc oil and lube the OD of the body as well as the wheel on the roller lifter", and that's in the installing and adjusting lifters section! I don't see any **** elsewhere else that say to use zinc?

ZDDP is zinc

 

[furious70]

It's key to remember that modern oils keep changing standard and evolving. Using 'off the shelf' oil from 10-15yrs ago is not the same. My view is you don't need the uber expensive oil but you shouldn't just grab the stuff on special, pay attention to the ZDDP. I've used the silver bottled VR1 20w50 for years.

 

[FURYGT]

On a related topic to oil, consider using an oil filter designed for racing on a high performance engine. On the Flyin' Whale and my street strip '68 Sport Fury with a 520" engine I run a NAPA Gold or Wix racing oil filter. Looks the same as a regular oil filter but the internals are different.

 

[bnz84]

I use the Rislone additive and 10w30. But my engine is not stock/newer. Will go to 15w40 in the near future.

 

[Ripinator]

I'm building a 440. Hughes cam: 2024BL. 220/224 duration .503/.518 lift at valves. At installed height, valve springs are 150-160 lbs pressure. A friend told me that this is a lot higher than stock 100-125 pounds. I spoke to Dave Hughes and he is pushing Joe Gibbs break in oil for ZDDP during initial break-in and Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil for ZDDP for use with flat tappet cam and high pressure springs during daily driving. I bought the Joe Gibbs break-in oil.

I drove a Hughes cam with Hughes springs in a 360 for 10 years from 2004-2013 approx. Ran with conventional motor oil. Not a problem ever.
What do you think of this ZDDP issue?
What motor oil are you using?

The Debate Over Reduced ZDDP and Wear Protection

With a flat tappet cam, ya gotta run a high ZDDP oil - not regular oil with an STP or whatever additive. I'm running Penn Grade (formerly Brad Penn) 20W-50 in my '66 440 TNT. I order it from Summit, where I also get a WIX oil filter. I also use a NAPA Gold filter, because it is really a WIX. Just order twelve quarts so you can keep a couple in your trunk in your on-the-road extra parts / tools box.

 

[twostick]

On a related topic to oil, consider using an oil filter designed for racing on a high performance engine. On the Flyin' Whale and my street strip '68 Sport Fury with a 520" engine I run a NAPA Gold or Wix racing oil filter. Looks the same as a regular oil filter but the internals are different.

I would check the specs on the filter medium before I went there.

Most "race" filters are chosen because they demonstrate less restriction so they can flow more oil. The only way to accomplish that is to have bigger "holes" in the filter medium. This reduces restriction but it also allows larger particulate matter through. On a race engine this isn't that critical because they get freshened up every few seasons and compared to a daily driver, have zip for miles or hours of run time.

If you want it to go a million miles, pick the largest filter that will fit the space with the smallest micron spec. The larger filter medium volume will offset the flow restriction of the tighter filtration spec so you maintain volume and keep the oil cleaner.

Kevin