BBD - 2 barrel - rebuild/replace - Need suggestions

[69MoparNC]

69 Plymouth Fury - 318
PO passed away in 2021 (was his daily) I purchased in May of this year. Family did not drive it much, but did start it frequently.
Carter BBD - 2 barrel removed cleaned and rebuilt with a Mike's Carb Kit.
Gaskets, Oil change, wires, coil, plugs, filter, belts.... basic tune up.
Fuel filter replaced. Did not drop tank, flush...
Seemed to start and idle after a bit of adjustment.

I do not know if this is a factor now, but wanted to add.... Mike's kit had a taller gasket for the Carter than what was on the Fury when I got it.
The choke was lower - and the car would not settle down at idle. I added a thicker gasket to the choke, and it seemed to help.

Driving the car last weekend, in the neighborhood... car shut off at a stop sign. It would restart and then fade.... oil light comes on and it stops.
Got it back to the garage, one foot on the brake, one on the fuel.

Long way to ask, do you think it is staring for fuel, garbage in the tank, filter backing up? Drop, flush, re-vat and replace filter?
The Carter BBD was the original Carb. Should I look into a replacement? Weber?


With this heavy a car, would you look into an intake replacement, and switch to a 4 barrel? Single plane, dual plane.


I know, it is only a 318 and .... while I am in there, gets all of us in trouble.

 

[CBODY67]

Did you replace the condenser in the distributor? If so, find the old one and put it in. See if that makes any difference. That one new component has been traced to many driveability issues as the new ones are not nearly as good, quality wise, as the ones they replaced.

Probably not a carb issue. I like the thick base gaskets, personally. Might verify the choke plate action, though, against factory specs.

NO need to start chunking NEW 4bbl parts at it. Will NOT help the "little" 318 move the car. NOT the only place a 318 went with a Fuselage car, either.

Please keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67

 

[69MoparNC]

Did not change the condenser in the distributor. Not keeping an idle at a stop sign has me stumped. Maybe I need to start at the tank. Clean it and replace the filter again. See if that helps.
I added a thicker gasket to the choke to bring the height up. Have followed "the typical adjustments" to the Carter.... but still having stumbling issues.

69MoparNC

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for the additional information and verifications.

Before you drop the tank, you can put a fuel filter pre-fuel pump to see if it will catch some "stuff" from the back end of things. I have seen some clear filters with replaceable elements in the boat section at WalMart, but the normal opaque plastic filters as used on the output side of the pump can work, too.

Might be as simple as a new fuel pump?

Thanks,
CBODY67

 

[69MoparNC]

I have seen the replaceable filters years ago, have not thought of that. I like the idea of starting with adding a pre-pump filter as see what we catch.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Get a vacuum reading while at idle. What is your idle (in park) RPM set to? Did you change the fuel filter? Do you have a timing light? Can you check the timing setting?

Adjust timing and carb mixture screws for best idle vacuum. This can mean turning the distributor to 10 BTDC, but this will most likely give you ping under load.

You might have to re-curve the distributor to NOT GIVE YOU PING when driving the gas of your choice (ie - your $$$ spend on high octane) when setting the timing for the most idle BTDC. PING is bad for the engine.

Old gas is bad stuff. What was your fuel guage reading when you started all this? I would have drained / siphoned as much of the old gas as possible and added a few gallons of new gas right off the bat.

Looks like aftermarket coil. I would suspect it's the wrong coil for the job (ie points vs electronic). Who put that on? Probably wrong plug wires also (resistance too high). Check the plug wiring is correct (ie correct firing order). Mixup's have been known to happen. Take out 1 spark plug and have a look at the tip, check color and condition against various charts and guides. And tell us what the particular make/model plug it is.

I am constantly surprised to see that some (or many?) of these C-bodies did not have power brakes.

Gorgeous car.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I doubt if the fuel tank is the culprit if it runs fine until idle. More than likely carb issues. (maybe choke) The in-line filter is always a good idea but probably not causing your problems.
When your oil light came on, it was because the idle was so low the oil pressure dropped down too low. I think they will come on when the pressure is below 5 psi.
That carb was a pretty good one when set up properly. I'm betting that is the issue.

 

[volksworld]

check for vacuum leaks...line to hvac controls? did it have a port for a booster that was plugged? pcv valve issue? if you rebuilt the carb yourself once you can do it again,the gaskets will probably live... wouldnt take much crud to block an idle circuit...just spray through the passages with aerosol carb cleaner and follow with compressed air...you could run it off another source of gas to eliminate tank concerns...I have an old lawnmower tank I use but an empty oil container with a hose stuffed into the top fed into the fuel pump will work...just don't be dumb and set yourself on fire....clogged filters and bad pumps usually starve the engine for gas at higher rpm, not at idle...but a deteriorating filter that let debris through could be an issue

 

[69MoparNC]

I did change the filter, and there is some discoloration. I did not drain the fuel, when I brought it home.
I should have started there. PCV was replaced. Fuel pump was not. I cleaned the carburetor, and it may be that I need to go thru it again.
Did not use an ultrasound on it the first time.

 

[Toolmanmike]

I did change the filter, and there is some discoloration. I did not drain the fuel, when I brought it home.
I should have started there. PCV was replaced. Fuel pump was not. I cleaned the carburetor, and it may be that I need to go thru it again.
Did not use an ultrasound on it the first time.

Those B&B carbs are simple and pretty trouble free. I have been into a few. I wish my Polara had one in fact. The previous owner replaced it with a Holley 2 barrel from a late 70's Mopar. What a strange one to rebuild. I was having hesitation and running issues so I went through mine with a Mikes kit. (highly recommended kit from Mikes) I was surprised I didn't find any sediment or chunks floating around inside. I truly believe it was fuel related. I got close to empty and I filled it up with unleaded premium from another station and so far, it has been running great. After talking with some local car collector friends, many of them have been having the same issues and all got gas from the same brand of convenience store.

 

[Padre4art]

I have had a similar problem. Mine turned out to be a rusty, filthy gas tank, and dirt and sludge were getting past the sender screen and past the fuel filter and clogging up the carb. I was constantly fiddling with carb settings… now I know why.

Cleaned the tank: stone, drywall screws, shake, rattle, roll, strong vinegar soak 2 days, power wash, acetone rinse, dry, coat with Caswell two part epoxy.

Original carbs are high quality and easy to rebuild.

Have at it!

Art

 

[69MoparNC]

I am going to go down the path - drain the tank, drop it, clean it out. Replace the sending unit and seal. With access to the trunk area, I will go over that and address any areas that need attention. Blow out the fuel lines, replace the rubber fuel lines and replace the fuel pump and filter. Pull the Carb again and just do a check. Gaskets should be fine, I may have to go through all the small passages and clean/blown them out. Fresh fuel and lite the fire. Adjust carb and verify timing.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Be very careful with the tank. Treat it like a bomb. No sparks or heat. The fumes in the tank make it a bomb. It will reak of gasoline for a long time no mater how many times you rinse it with water.

Fuel pumps can last a long time. Mine isin't the original, but it is 30 years old. I put a clone BBD carb on my 318 a couple years ago.

See also:

68 Fury 318 2bbl carb replacement

The time has come to replace my Carter 2bbl 4608S as it won't hold a tune after a rebuild and is failing a vacuum test according to my trusted mechanic. Is the general idea that you can swap any 2bbl with another 2bbl? (Identical bases, etc.?) If anyone can weigh in here I don't have the...

www.forcbodiesonly.com

Carter BBD for 318 - vacuum port identification on clone "Super 6" carb

I'm getting happier about how this carb is working on my 318, cold start performance is pretty much tuned up but I still need to work on getting better early choke pull-off. This is a china clone of I think the Super-6 carb, which I think came out in '77. I might get more / better answers from...

www.forcbodiesonly.com

 

[Toolmanmike]

I am going to go down the path - drain the tank, drop it, clean it out. Replace the sending unit and seal. With access to the trunk area, I will go over that and address any areas that need attention. Blow out the fuel lines, replace the rubber fuel lines and replace the fuel pump and filter. Pull the Carb again and just do a check. Gaskets should be fine, I may have to go through all the small passages and clean/blown them out. Fresh fuel and lite the fire. Adjust carb and verify timing.

You can use tag wire to clean the passages. (if you can find an old tag to rob the wire from)

 

[CBODY67]

In the case of a new sending unit, it has been observed that new units do not read correctly when installed. To help combat that, you might compare the swings of the float on the new unit with the current unit. Might need to selectively bend the new unit to match the current unit.

On the carburetor, you might want to check the "Low Speed Jet" for hard deposits in it. As the hole becomes smaller, less total fuel to the idle system. It is located a short distance up inside the solid brass idle tubes, hidden from view. Might need to probe the bottom of the tubes with a bent-wire spark plug gap gauge to ensure the jets are open. If you can keep enlarging the hole with the gap gauge ends, until it is a solid stop, might need to get a twist drill and mechanically open the hole until you "get brass". Then wash out the deposits and shavings. I had to do that on my '80 Newport 360 2bbl (the ONE year a 318-size BBD was used on a 360).

Take care,
CBODY67

 

[69MoparNC]

I believe the PO did not do any maintenance or refurbishing of the tank. Once I get it drained and down - I will inspect the condition. Is it better to take it to a shop for cleaning and coating, or better to do it yourself? I have not done a tank at home.

Cleaned the tank: stone, drywall screws, shake, rattle, roll, strong vinegar soak 2 days, power wash, acetone rinse, dry, coat with Caswell two part epoxy.

Thoughts?

 

[MoPar~Man]

There may not be any shop near you that actually cleans / repairs / coats old gas tanks. Repairing / refubishing old radiators and gas tanks is a service that is fast going away. I bought a new tank from Van's a couple years ago - it was $240 + 50 to ship to Michigan. Van's had the tanks on sale. Cleaning / de-rusting a tank is very tedious and messy. I tried that with my old tank. Vinegar and electrolysis. It did a good job cleaning / de-rusting. BUT. I had a few holes I figure I could fix (solder) when I started the de-rusting. More small pin-holes developed or were exposed during the cleaning. I said this wasn't worth it, $300 for a new tank is starting to look good.

Do you know (or do you think) your current tank has any leaks?

 

[CBODY67]

The long-term effectiveness of any interior tank coating is only as good as the cleaning functions, as to how well and long the coating "sticks". In earlier times of the coatings, there were some reported issues with the coating coming apart and clogging the fuel supply system. FWIW

To me, always best to buy new when possible. Might cost a bit more, but better in the long run, to me. New tanks are usually more available now rather than back then, too.

YMMV,
CBODY67

 

[57fury440]

I've had two tanks done at two different shops. Both ended up making a mess of the fuel system when the coatings they used started coming off. If you can get a new tank, do it, you will be happy in the long run. I think your problem is still with the carb. It may need to be cleaned better.

 

[Douglas Buckley]

I would invest in a fuel pressure gauge. Only about $10-15 on the big A. Look up specs to find what the pressure range should be. If low, then clogged fuel line, plugged filter(s), bad pump, etc. If ok, then carb or secondary electrical. If going down the service fuel tank road, I too recommend a new tank. Mine for my Valiant was about $115 including shipping. Be sure to check/clean the filler tube and run lots of Brake cleaner and low pressure compressed air through the fuel line and fuel gauge pick up tube. New filter sock on the pick up tube and new gaskets and hoses on everything.