Chirping sound, and where to get rear drums?

[CBODY67]

"Flushable"? I have seen old grease be purged from the seals on the greaseable joints, over the years. BUT no full purge of the old grease, just enough to know that new grease has forced out SOME of the existing lubricant. To me, if a grease gun can breach the seals, then those same seals can be breached by water from the outside in. Think how fast that joint is spinning on the highway. How much force it has against ANY moisture which might contact the caps and seals.

I know that everything that moves should be able to be greased over time. No problem with that! BUT it used to be that OEMs used greaseable and non-greaseable u-joints over the years. Just like some have used external c-clips to retain the joints to the yoke. As other OEMs used a thin bead of plastic shot into a channel in the driveshaft yoke. To retain caps that were a VERY tight fit into the yokes they worked in.

At this point in time, even if the car is used daily for a 100 mile round trip to work or whatever and back. ANY decent u-joint should last well long enough to wear the car out, I suspect. To me, I would be more concerned IF it fit the application in all respects rather than if it was greaseable or not. BTAIM

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Turbo301]

This seems to be on-topic:

http://[URL]https://forum.e-bodies....n-and-rear-end/4/correct-front-u-joint/26680/

[/URL]

Those guys seemed to find the same thing, that the Moog 315G and 317 are too wide but the SKF UJ317 worked. That makes me excited to try my UJ317s when they come in!

 

[Turbo301]

"Flushable"? I have seen old grease be purged from the seals on the greaseable joints, over the years. BUT no full purge of the old grease, just enough to know that new grease has forced out SOME of the existing lubricant. To me, if a grease gun can breach the seals, then those same seals can be breached by water from the outside in. Think how fast that joint is spinning on the highway. How much force it has against ANY moisture which might contact the caps and seals.

I know that everything that moves should be able to be greased over time. No problem with that! BUT it used to be that OEMs used greaseable and non-greaseable u-joints over the years. Just like some have used external c-clips to retain the joints to the yoke. As other OEMs used a thin bead of plastic shot into a channel in the driveshaft yoke. To retain caps that were a VERY tight fit into the yokes they worked in.

At this point in time, even if the car is used daily for a 100 mile round trip to work or whatever and back. ANY decent u-joint should last well long enough to wear the car out, I suspect. To me, I would be more concerned IF it fit the application in all respects rather than if it was greaseable or not. BTAIM

Enjoy!
CBODY67

The force of a grease gun pushing grease from the inside is WAY higher than any incidental splash of water from the outside. Rotational forces on the seal will be minimal.

What I find odd is that greasable joints "have to" be greased, while the non-greasable ones, obviously, do not as they cannot be greased; and yet the steel of the bearing parts and the grease used in both is basically the same. The non-greasable one being expected to have the same life as a greasable one that is re-greased, say, yearly is puzzling.

But yes, at this point I don't really care if they are greasable or not as long as they work. It's not like my car is putting out huge HP or needs to survive harsh climate.

 

[CBODY67]

The difference in the joints which do not have grease fittings is that they come packed with grease that probably is far superior to normal chassis grease. Just like the joints in a fwd or IRS drive axle. THAT is the difference and why the non-greaseable joints can last 100K miles. The metallurgy on those joints might be a bit better, too.

Just my suspiciions,
CBODY67

 

[Turbo301]

The difference in the joints which do not have grease fittings is that they come packed with grease that probably is far superior to normal chassis grease. Just like the joints in a fwd or IRS drive axle. THAT is the difference and why the non-greaseable joints can last 100K miles. The metallurgy on those joints might be a bit better, too.

Just my suspiciions,
CBODY67

When looking at the grease in my non-greasable unit, it looks just like the tube of stuff you get at Canadian Tire. I can't imagine it is actually any better. I guess the best way to compare would be to get the same brand, similar model but one greasable and one not and see if there's actually a difference. I doubt the metallurgy is any different; why would they go to that trouble? My suspicion is they just make non-greasable ones that way so people don't have to feel the need to re-grease .

Anyway, I'm pleased to say that the SKF UJ317 fit my yokes perfectly! They really do consume every thou of space across the yoke for the retaining ring grooves, so I recommend to make sure the retaining rings are fully, FULLY seated.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Is there any P/N on the ones you took out?

I packed my front wheel bearings with Mystic Hi-temp Multi-Purpose EP Lithium Complex (red in color) but in my gun I have Amsoil Synthetic water-resistant grease (blue in color) and that's what went into my u-joints (the moog 315g's have zirk fittings). I got the Mystic grease from TSC (before they became Peavey Mart) and I should have bought more before they went under, they were the only retailer for Mystic around here.

 

[Turbo301]

Is there any P/N on the ones you took out?

There is "585 1 SPR" on one side, and "W4 03 40" on the other, where spaces indicate new lines. It seems like "SPR" might stand for "Spicer", but there was no "585" from them that fit these dimensions.

 

[Turbo301]

Okay, if anyone is sitll interested: the drive shaft is in, the test drive was successful (in that the drive shaft didn't fly out or make new noises), but the chirping sound is still there... sigh. So apparently it wasn't U-joints. The chirp seems a bit quieter, though, maybe?

 

[Turbo301]

One more follow-up, to close the saga: I went after the rear wheel bearings. The guy at CarQuest was not very pleasant to deal with; he said he couldn't tell if the bearings his computer was showing him were for an 8.25" or 8.75" rear... so they got me in the wrong parts, of course :/. I resorted to RockAuto and got the right parts, and sure enough, all is quiet back there now! I didn't see any noticeable issues with the bearings that came out, though: barely any discolouration, no roughness or anything... but anyway, its fixed!

 

[MoPar~Man]

One more follow-up, to close the saga: I went after the rear wheel bearings. The guy at CarQuest was not very pleasant to deal with; he said he couldn't tell if the bearings his computer was showing him were for an 8.25" or 8.75" rear... so they got me in the wrong parts, of course :/. I resorted to RockAuto and got the right parts, and sure enough, all is quiet back there now! I didn't see any noticeable issues with the bearings that came out, though: barely any discolouration, no roughness or anything... but anyway, its fixed!

Did you put in the oem tapered bearings or the "green" bearing?

 

[Turbo301]

Did you put in the oem tapered bearings or the "green" bearing?

On this rear, the bearings are straight rollers: Timken 6408 did the trick, with Timken 8835S seals.

 

[R&R]

Bad wheel bearing “chirp” or “clunk” usually shows up first while making a turn. I always thought greaseless fittings were a joke. However, after changing the steering box/shaft u joint every 250k-500k on my semi trucks.(always at exposed box, not at other end of shaft in cab) My current Truck came with a greaseless u joint. It lasted over 2 million miles. I only changed it because I changed the steering box. I’m amazed. General consensus is that the greaseless u joints are “sealed” and aren’t affected by dirt. I’m a believer, especially since I know Trucks that work in the dirt typically wear out any wheel bearing or u joint in 1/2 or less usage. They’re also constantly replacing anything with a rubber seal, like air brake components. I still use great type u joints on my Truck. They typically get loose and wallow out (egg hole) the yokes. End up welding new yokes on drive shafts, new tail shaft yoke, carrier bearing. Amazingly the rear short shaft lasts forever. Still original at 2.5 million miles. Go figure

 

[Turbo301]

General consensus is that the greaseless u joints are “sealed” and aren’t affected by dirt.

I can see how parts that are exposed to considerable dirt or moisture could last longer if they remain sealed. Disturbing seals by squeezing old grease out with new grease, on re-greasable joints, will definitely compromise the sealing capability: the grease that forms a barrier as it is displaced is not a strong shield against contamination, especially in places like ball joints that are very much exposed to road conditions. On a car like mine, though, that will never see inclement weather, the grease will be fine to keep humidity and dust out. And I'm just glad I got correct bearings found and everything put back together properly LOL.

 

[fury fan]

So I got my car on the hoist, and the U-joints appear to be good. They are dusty but not rusty at all, the seals look good, and they have grease zerks! I was excited by that, but there's not enough clearance to fit my grease gun in there (only about a 1/4" diameter, max, will fit), so I'll try and find a narrower grease gun fitting.

Older story, and it's been sorted thru, but worth mentioning for future readers:

You must remove the driveshaft and wiggle the U-joints thru motion.
If you can ID a bad UJ with the shaft in place, it's *really* bad. But they can feel good, yet have wear that will cause vibration.
Remember (or become aware) that UJ bearings don't really rotate, they just rock back and forth.
With the UJ rotated thru a range of motion, or with a cap removed, you can determine if there are any scallops on the UJ bearing journal.
Scallops that cause vibration but don't cause slop in the joint.
Or you might just find one that has stiff grease packed between the rollers from rocking pack and forth.

When installing U-joints, a trick I was shown years ago by an older mechanic:
After the UJ is pressed into the yoke, swivel it and make sure it's smooth and easy. Pressing the UJ in place can sometimes tweak the yoke a bit and make it bind the bearing caps ever so slightly. Take a decent pin-punch and tap the yoke ears outward and check the results. It's iterative: pick an ear, give it a tap, and check it. This is trail/error, you're only 50/50 to pick teh offending ear, but once you get started in it you'll find your way.

If you have a bind from 1 pair of ears and not the other, and you don't address it, you could get a vibration as the UJ works thru 360deg of rotation.
It will be like a tiny braking action every 180deg of the driveshaft.

Also -
A grease-type yoke is weakest where the zerk is located.
If installing a greasable UJ (esp in a high-torque/high-load vehicle), install teh UJ such that the zerk is being compressed between the driveshaft and teh axle yoke, rather than being in tension between an axle ear and the driveshaft ear.
Picture the driveshaft rotation, picture an ear of the driveshaft pushing an ear on the rearend yoke - put hte zerk between, where it will be pushed on.
Or, looking rearward at the axle, put the zerk CCW of the axle ear.